[Archived] Ordinary Dave

[Bazzanotsogreat]

No there have been plenty of articles and analysis saying the same thing.

Normal post-electoral thrashing effect; the only people left in a humiliated party are the extreme ideologues.

That gave the Tories the likes of Howard and Duncan-Smith as leader a complete set of wingnut candidates and Ordinary Dave getting himself elected by posturing on Europe.

Look at how totally nuts the Republican rump is in the US just now. The same effect.

Now Dave has joined up with gay bashers, anti-semites and waffen SS supporters (Latvia) in the European Parliament under the leadership of a Pole who won't apologise/fully acknowledge the massacre of Jews in 1941. Just about the only good news for Labour, if you can call it that, is the opportunity it has given the sons of a Polish refugee (the Milliband brothers) who lost 80 members of their family in Jewish massacres to launch an all out attack to which the Tories have no conceivable answer having so deliberately left the PEP to set-up the rag tag mob they are in with now.

So actually you have no evidence? The last paragraph is a completley irrelvant piece of leftist spin- which as Flopsy has laready aluded to was actually factualy incorrect.

So actually you have no evidence? The last paragraph is a completely irrelevant piece of leftist spin- which as Flopsy has already alluded to was actually factually incorrect.

As for ties with anti-Semitic nations- look no further than the Labour’s parties ties with likes of Saudi-Arabia ( which has actually re-written the Wahhabi version of the Quran to add anti-Semitism soundbites & Syria.

I think you will find that the Tories in general- are much more pro-Israeli/Jewish than the Labour party.

Conservatives Friends of Israel

I for one await your response

[philipl]

The Labour Friends of Israel and Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel make similar claims to the Conservative Friends of Israel so that is no big deal.

The Fatherland Party in Latvia DOES mark the 16th March which does honour those who fought for the Nazis as part of the Waffen SS (there were two Latvian Divisions) although those times were utterly tragic and as a small nation being overrun by two totalitarian regimes the choices for the Latvians were horrific indeed.

If we are trading in Jewish propoganda then the museum about the murder of 80,000 Latvian Jews has a long list of Latvians who volunteered in the round up and slaughter and who are honoured by extension by the Fatherland Party.

The hard evidence is in the Tories leaving the PEP, the major right wing grouping in the European Parliament and joining up with the bunch of, shall we say, eccentrics they have done.

It depends how disciplined Dave's mob are but I very confidently predict that a veritable zoo of right wing loons will be unveiled between now and election day as Tory Parliamentary Candidates become more known to the public at large.

And that article you are dissing was in the Times, not the Guardian. But of course the Times is a left wing propoganda sheet for someone of your far right perspective.

[thenodrog]

I don't think that is true, IMO, rather that a lot of the people are unhappy with Labour, and if, as seems likely, the conservatives win the next election it will be because of dissatisfaction with labour rather than the conservatives actually persuading people to vote for them. I think the conservatives know this and will say as little as they can get away with in terms of real policies.

Precisely the conditions that swept BLiar in to power in 97. What goes around comes around.

[jim mk2]

Precisely the conditions that swept BLiar in to power in 97. What goes around comes around.

As a matter of interest, who did you vote for in 1997 ?

[Blueandwhitemike]

Precisely the conditions that swept BLiar in to power in 97. What goes around comes around.

I don't know, maybe my memory is wrong or I was just at an optimistic age, but I remember it a bit differently. There was a lot of optimism around in 97 about labour and it seemed like there was a lot more focus on them and how they had changed and how they were going to do things differently, the country had more belief. These days it seems as though the country is a lot angrier and it is less about a new start for the conservatives and more about anything to get rid of labour.

Whilst I am unhappy and sometimes angry with labour, I fear the conservatives.

p.s. Although I can't put together a very cohesive argument as to why, I really don't like Osbourne.

[thenodrog]

As a matter of interest, who did you vote for in 1997 ?

Can't remember. Can't even rem whether I bothered or not but if you give me a list of the candidates other than Jack Straw of course it might jog my memory.

As for jogging yours about where in the Tory heartland you live... would you like me to provide you with the names of the quaint and expensive villages in the Ribble Valley to help you remember? Tell you what Jim just let me have your post code and I should be able to help you remember.

[thenodrog]

I don't know, maybe my memory is wrong or I was just at an optimistic age, but I remember it a bit differently. There was a lot of optimism around in 97 about labour and it seemed like there was a lot more focus on them and how they had changed and how they were going to do things differently, the country had more belief. These days it seems as though the country is a lot angrier and it is less about a new start for the conservatives and more about anything to get rid of labour.

Whilst I am unhappy and sometimes angry with labour, I fear the conservatives.

p.s. Although I can't put together a very cohesive argument as to why, I really don't like Osbourne.

And yet you like Broon, Podger Prescott, Squirrel Nutkin Blears and Herr Fuehrer Mandelson etc etc?

But I know what you mean about Osborne, he's decidedly dodgy.

btw no wonder the country seems angrier is it, about 25% of the electorate put that belief and faith into New Labour, voted em in and they've been badly let down and conned. New Lab / Old Tory / meaningless Liberals they are all the same set of self important, egotistical shysters. When will people come to realise that all votes are wasted votes in our system?

[jim mk2]

Can't remember. .

Of course you can remember.

Your brain may be befuddled but you know jolly well you voted Tory in 1997.

Anyone who voted Tory in 1997 after 18 years of Tory misrule and sleaze needed psychiatric help.

Which seems rather appropriate in your case......

[Flopsy]

Anyone who voted Tory in 1997 after 18 years of Tory misrule and sleaze needed psychiatric help.

And yet its only taken 12 years for NuLabour to plumb the depths of sleaze and misrule to an extent exponentially worse than anything the Thatcher or Major Governments managed. Quite an achievement.

[cletus]

And yet its only taken 12 years for NuLabour to plumb the depths of sleaze and misrule to an extent exponentially worse than anything the Thatcher or Major Governments managed. Quite an achievement.

I`m not a labour voter (nor do i like them) but they`ve got a lot further to sink before they reach the depths the Conservatives plumbed when they were last in power. Tories don`t do anything for the good of the country, they do things that will better themselves only & sod the rest.

[Blueandwhitemike]

And yet you like Broon, Podger Prescott, Squirrel Nutkin Blears and Herr Fuehrer Mandelson etc etc?

But I know what you mean about Osborne, he's decidedly dodgy.

btw no wonder the country seems angrier is it, about 25% of the electorate put that belief and faith into New Labour, voted em in and they've been badly let down and conned. New Lab / Old Tory / meaningless Liberals they are all the same set of self important, egotistical shysters. When will people come to realise that all votes are wasted votes in our system?

None of that really argues against what I said.

I'm disappointed by all those you mention, and almost all the politicians. I don't believe they are all bad, I even know some people involved and a lot of them got into it for the right reasons, unfortunately power corrupts. I don't think apathy is the answer though, but I admit I feel powerless to change it and I don't know the solution.

I still believe as bad as labour are, the conservatives will be worse. Maybe labour need to take a step back to get going forwards, but I'm not optimistic about it. I wouldn't say votes are wasted, maybe green is the way to go, at least if enough people vote for them then whoever is in power will see the need to do more about the problems in that area.

[Sandiway Blue]

I`m not a labour voter (nor do i like them) but they`ve got a lot further to sink before they reach the depths the Conservatives plumbed when they were last in power. Tories don`t do anything for the good of the country, they do things that will better themselves only & sod the rest.

And labour haven`t?

Governments have limited shelf life,just as 1997 was the end of the tories spell in power because they looked tired,2010 will be the end of labours spell in charge.They too look tired and incapable of making decisions for the good of the country and i for one will be glad to see the back of them.People will say the tories haven`t any clear policies,but from what we are lead to believe,Dave won`t release details of policies until nearer the time because it is thought that labour will steal their ideas.Labour`s policy is when you are in a hole,dig deeper and will just throw good money after bad.

[thenodrog]

Can't remember. Can't even rem whether I bothered or not but if you give me a list of the candidates other than Jack Straw of course it might jog my memory.

As for jogging yours about where in the Tory heartland you live... would you like me to provide you with the names of the quaint and expensive villages in the Ribble Valley to help you remember? Tell you what Jim just let me have your post code and I should be able to help you remember.

Of course you can remember.

No really I can't. Provide the info or pipe down. You cannot even rem where you live or your own name apparently.

[den]

No really I can't.

Oh yes you can.

It's a game you've always played Theno. Giving that kind of info will put you in a no win situation - and you would rather others be there for you take advantage of.

[jim mk2]

Oh yes you can.

Gordon's been outed as a Tory - oh, the shame, the shame !!

[philipl]

If he votes Tory, that is at least respectable compared with some of the places to the right I sometimes suspected might be benefiting from his vote.

The BBC's Gavin Hewitt reports on the charges levied against Dave's not very nice new pals in Europe

[Flopsy]

Actually, i bet he voted New Labour

[colin]

Just to get back to "call me Dave" rather than anything else.

The Conservative party has said that it will cut Disability Living Allowance." This is paid to some of the poorest people in the country who are unable to hold down employment due to disabilities.

It has also said that it will abolish inheritence tax, which cuts in on some of the richest people in the country and only kicks in after (I'll stand corrected) £150,000 of assets.

That's why I'll never vote Tory

I'll probably never vote Labour ever again, not because of the global downturn, which they had no control over, but for the way the Labour party has shamelessly parroted Tory policies just to garner votes.

And the war criminal Blair.

[Flopsy]

Do you mean the DLA, or the Incapacity Benefit?

[colin]

Apologies Flopsy,

Incapacity benefit. Paid to those who are unable to work due to disabilities. Many of whom were moved into this in years gone by to get then off the unemployment list to keep those figures down.

[jim mk2]

.

It has also said that it will abolish inheritence tax, which cuts in on some of the richest people in the country and only kicks in after (I'll stand corrected) £150,000 of assets.

IT threshold for 2009-10 is £325,000.

And with careful planning it is possible for couples to increase the nil rate band so their combined estate can be worth up to £650,000 before they owe inheritance tax.

Think about it - £650,000 to pass on free of tax. And the Tories want to help the rich get even richer by increasing the IT threshold to £1 million while cutting the benefits of the sick and disabled.

Vote Tory for a fairer and more equal Britain.

[cn174]

Apologies Flopsy,

Incapacity benefit. Paid to those who are unable to work due to disabilities. Many of whom were moved into this in years gone by to get then off the unemployment list to keep those figures down.

IB is being phased out anyway and is only available now to people who already claim it. The new benefit is Employment and Support Allowance which has been around nearly a year now. The problem with IB is what you say that in the past people were put on it as it keeps the unemployability levels down whether they are disabled or not.

[thenodrog]

Of course you can remember.

Your brain may be befuddled but you know jolly well you voted Tory in 1997.

No I bloody can't. I'll ask you again dullard......... Who were the bloody candidates?

Oh and btw where do you live?

Even easier and better still tell us who your MP is. In fact to cut to the chase your vote like mine is absolutely useless and completely irrelevant given our postcodes. Basically unless proportional representation kicks in voting is a complete and utter waste of time and I am suprised that you have not cottoned onto that fact yet.

[pg]

Ah, England is stuffed for the foreseeable future...a shame.

Labour need to ditch Brown .. front up a new leadership team with a clean slate...and try to limit the electoral damage as much as possible.

I have no idea how England is going to tackle the future challenges of transport, energy, healthcare, the environment and an increasingly aging population as long as political 'leadership' is sourced from Tory/Labour and their free market policies.

[Flopsy]

you so voted Labour, Theno

Me thinks he doth protest too much