[Archived] Fans Behaviour

[Paul Mellelieu]

Try reading Nick Cohen's 'What's Left?', in which he sets out his premise that, in Marxist terms, old style Trots like Galloway and Livingstone would rather promote feudal theocracy to bourgeois democracy.

Oh dear, what a muddle you've got into. For the record George Galloway has always been an anti-Trot, big fan of the old Soviet union and Arab nationalist. Livingstone similarly has never been a 'Trot' or a Marxist. So whilst Nick Cohen has a few interesting observations about how sections of the British left have fallen into bed with political Islam, he's a leftist who has no truck with leftfooter's reactionary nonsense.

[leftfooter]

Yeah, but Marxist-Islamic alliance, that's just fantastic! Hilarity once again prevails!!!!

I tend to confuse yer actual Marxists with me Militant Tendencies and mix up my Lancastrian People's Front with the People's Front of Lancastria!

I'm sure you knew what I meant though as it seems to be a subject close to your heart.

Anyone who has witnessed a 'stop-the-war' (read anti-West) demonstration will have been struck by similarities between the combat fatigued Socialist Worker deadbeats and the bussed-in kaffiyeh sporting Jihadis. Both share a similar hostility to American "imperialism", the same political monomania, lack of humour and infantile level of ideological certainty.

Oh yeh, and the Respect Coalition's membership (pronounced "Wee'spec" by its adherents) is largely drawn from the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party and the hard-line Muslim Association of Britain.

[Fife Rover]

Im sorry but did you actually read my post? I said that I personally didnt find blasphemy offensive BUT I COULD UNDERSTAND WHY OTHER PEOPLE DID.

I wasn't having a go at you MMLP. What I was doing was picking up on what you had said and using it as my introduction to point out just how right you are in saying that "others may be offended". I then went on to try to explain why this is so important to people like myself and to suggest why so many others cannot see it or worse don't even care.

[Paul Mellelieu]

I tend to confuse yer actual Marxists with me Militant Tendencies and mix up my Lancastrian People's Front with the People's Front of Lancastria!

I'm sure you knew what I meant though as it seems to be a subject close to your heart.

Anyone who has witnessed a 'stop-the-war' (read anti-West) demonstration will have been struck by similarities between the combat fatigued Socialist Worker deadbeats and the bussed-in kaffiyeh sporting Jihadis. Both share a similar hostility to American "imperialism", the same political monomania, lack of humour and infantile level of ideological certainty.

Oh yeh, and the Respect Coalition's membership (pronounced "Wee'spec" by its adherents) is largely drawn from the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party and the hard-line Muslim Association of Britain.

The SWP left Respect some time ago.

[Mattyblue]

Don't get me wrong I love a political debate, probably about half my posts have been in political threads, but what the bloody hell has any of this got to do with football?

Time to move it to ICBINF????

[mellison24]

The SWP left Respect some time ago.

Leave Shaun out of this! Oh...wait....getcha.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Don't get me wrong I love a political debate, probably about half my posts have been in political threads, but what the bloody hell has any of this got to do with football?

Time to move it to ICBINF????

Fair dos. I'll stop.

[cn174]

A bit related to this subject... in Chorley train station today there are Police Incident posters slapped on the windows of the ticket booths and in the information section. It says about an Asian man and his two young nephews who were subject to a torrent of abuse from three men wearing Blackburn Rovers tops on the train to Blackpool on Saturday afternoon. Not good!

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

A bit related to this subject... in Chorley train station today there are Police Incident posters slapped on the windows of the ticket booths and in the information section. It says about an Asian man and his two young nephews who were subject to a torrent of abuse from three men wearing Blackburn Rovers tops on the train to Blackpool on Saturday afternoon. Not good!

Not good Clare. But one wonders if it had been a white man and his two young white nephews abused by three Asian men whether it would have been treated with the exact same level of seriousness by the police.

It would also be nice to occasionally see posters on railway stations calling for information about the 'honour killings', abuse of women and sexual grooming of young girls forced into prostitution and drug taking, which according to Supt Neil Smith of Lancashire Police, the majority of cases in East Lancashire involve predatory Asian males. (See the link here)

Using the names" Jesus" or "Christ" as expletives, in other words swearing, is offensive to me and maybe others. I have reported this in the past but little seems to be done about it.

The other day I read "Jesus effing Christ" which the mods seem to allow, yet don't allow "######,####.######,paki,nigger, (Please don't use that word again) etc."

I'd be willing to wager that 50 to 60 years ago if you asked the average British person in the street: "What is more offensive in society - to say 'Jesus effing Christ' or the word 'nigger' - the majority of people back then would have said that 'Jesus effing Christ' is more offensive. After all, even up until the late 1960s people like Martin Luther King were openly calling themselves 'negroes' - a word which now seems to cause outrage among the liberal establishment.

We didn't have so much political correctness 50 years ago and people weren't so precious about things. Have things changed for the better in the last 50 years? With increasing crime, increasing casual violence and increasing anti-social behaviour in recent decades, I'd suggest that the liberal experiment in Britain has been a failure.

I'd like to see a return to a more civilised set of manners and behaviour in general and less political correctness. My grandmother would be offended by the word "shagging". I doubt she would be as offended by the abbreviated word 'Paki'.

[Ben-2000]

Not good Clare. But one wonders if it had been a white man and his two young white nephews abused by three Asian men whether it would have been treated with the exact same level of seriousness by the police.

It would also be nice to occasionally see posters on railway stations calling for information about the 'honour killings', abuse of women and sexual grooming of young girls forced into prostitution and drug taking, which according to Supt Neil Smith of Lancashire Police, the majority of cases in East Lancashire involve predatory Asian males. (See the link here)

I'd be willing to wager that 50 to 60 years ago if you asked the average British person in the street: "What is more offensive in society - to say 'Jesus effing Christ' or the word 'nigger' - the majority of people back then would have said that 'Jesus effing Christ' is more offensive. After all, even up until the late 1960s people like Martin Luther King were openly calling themselves 'negroes' - a word which now seems to cause outrage among the liberal establishment.

We didn't have so much political correctness 50 years ago and people weren't so precious about things. Have things changed for the better in the last 50 years? With increasing crime, increasing casual violence and increasing anti-social behaviour in recent decades, I'd suggest that the liberal experiment in Britain has been a failure.

I'd like to see a return to a more civilised set of manners and behaviour in general and less political correctness. My grandmother would be offended by the word "shagging". I doubt she would be as offended by the abbreviated word 'Paki'.

Some very interesting points...

[Tom]

Not good Clare. But one wonders if it had been a white man and his two young white nephews abused by three Asian men whether it would have been treated with the exact same level of seriousness by the police.

It would also be nice to occasionally see posters on railway stations calling for information about the 'honour killings', abuse of women and sexual grooming of young girls forced into prostitution and drug taking, which according to Supt Neil Smith of Lancashire Police, the majority of cases in East Lancashire involve predatory Asian males. (See the link here)

Pretty sure it would be dealt with the same, all we know is there are posters up it doesn't sound like a intense manhunt to me, also the posters are up in the train station because the offence took place on a train what the hell does honour killings and whatnot have to do with train stations?

Totally bizarre statement to make as the two aren't comparable.

[Mattyblue]

Some very interesting points...

Very much so, but AESF best don his tin hat anyway as pages and pages of anguished sociological claptrap, straight from the Guardian comment page is due to commence.

[colin]

As a Brit of Pakistani origin I'd like to give my 2 cents. I have never in my life heard the term Brit used as a derogatory term towards people of English origin in my life...ever!!! Yes Racism does occur from all backgrounds regardless of what skin colour they may be, but Mellison you have truely proved what a little tit you are with some of your comments. Also I happened to travel up to the Bolton game as I have a few mates that support Bolton and unfortunately had tickets to sit with them in the home section. Not that I cared we won 2-0. Now I personally came across 2 youths who were spewing the Owen Coyle Paki chant and when i grabbed hold of one of them I could smell the ###### roll down his leg ever so fast. Of course it turned into the " Nah I wasnt saying Paki Bruv i swear". What a fanny, at least be man enough to admit your racist scum. I just think that some people are so ignorant they need some serious enlightenment. Mellison God knows where you get your crap from. When my mates went to Germany for the World Cup a few years back they had their mini van sprayed with the logo "Brits on Tour" and they are all white!!!! So where does your poxy explanation go there?? And seriously trying to compare the term Paki to Brit??? Im proud to be a Brit and if anyone called me a Paki I'd rip them a new asshole...theres your difference

Aaah, now that's a post with a bit of hard on reality, rather than the pussy-footing rubbish/angels on the head of a pin tossthat I've just read.

Good one Slough Rover

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Not good Clare. But one wonders if it had been a white man and his two young white nephews abused by three Asian men whether it would have been treated with the exact same level of seriousness by the police.

It would also be nice to occasionally see posters on railway stations calling for information about the 'honour killings', abuse of women and sexual grooming of young girls forced into prostitution and drug taking, which according to Supt Neil Smith of Lancashire Police, the majority of cases in East Lancashire involve predatory Asian males. (See the link here)

I'd be willing to wager that 50 to 60 years ago if you asked the average British person in the street: "What is more offensive in society - to say 'Jesus effing Christ' or the word 'nigger' - the majority of people back then would have said that 'Jesus effing Christ' is more offensive. After all, even up until the late 1960s people like Martin Luther King were openly calling themselves 'negroes' - a word which now seems to cause outrage among the liberal establishment.

We didn't have so much political correctness 50 years ago and people weren't so precious about things. Have things changed for the better in the last 50 years? With increasing crime, increasing casual violence and increasing anti-social behaviour in recent decades, I'd suggest that the liberal experiment in Britain has been a failure.

I'd like to see a return to a more civilised set of manners and behaviour in general and less political correctness. My grandmother would be offended by the word "shagging". I doubt she would be as offended by the abbreviated word 'Paki'.

More civilised set of manners? where slang terms for sex become more offensive then racism?

Abbreviated word 'Paki'. Dont resort to that. Its a racist term regardless of what your grandmother thinks of it. Dont try to boil it down to just an abbreviated word in order to justify your argument, when you're fully aware of its racist connotations.

[KoNG]

As a Brit of Pakistani origin I'd like to give my 2 cents. I have never in my life heard the term Brit used as a derogatory term towards people of English origin in my life...ever!!! Yes Racism does occur from all backgrounds regardless of what skin colour they may be, but Mellison you have truely proved what a little tit you are with some of your comments. Also I happened to travel up to the Bolton game as I have a few mates that support Bolton and unfortunately had tickets to sit with them in the home section. Not that I cared we won 2-0. Now I personally came across 2 youths who were spewing the Owen Coyle Paki chant and when i grabbed hold of one of them I could smell the ###### roll down his leg ever so fast. Of course it turned into the " Nah I wasnt saying Paki Bruv i swear". What a fanny, at least be man enough to admit your racist scum. I just think that some people are so ignorant they need some serious enlightenment. Mellison God knows where you get your crap from. When my mates went to Germany for the World Cup a few years back they had their mini van sprayed with the logo "Brits on Tour" and they are all white!!!! So where does your poxy explanation go there?? And seriously trying to compare the term Paki to Brit??? Im proud to be a Brit and if anyone called me a Paki I'd rip them a new asshole...theres your difference

Funnily enough your mate who owns the big flying birds... whats his name..? Richard Branson.

He thought it would be Humorous to rename the iconic pub 'The Australian' in the Rocks (Sydney) for a few weeks after your lads beat us to the Ashes.

he renamed it.... "The Brit" and donned it with the Union Jack all over.

what a ###### hey...?

[Paul Mellelieu]

Yes, what a wonderful world it was 50 years ago. Gay people were criminalised and hounded out of their jobs (google Alan Turing), racism was rife, domestic abuse was seen as acceptable. Need I go on?

As for manners; if people don't want to called Pakis, then just maybe you could respect that. Or maybe you can't.

[thenodrog]

Yes, what a wonderful world it was 50 years ago. Gay people were criminalised and hounded out of their jobs (google Alan Turing), racism was rife, domestic abuse was seen as acceptable. Need I go on?

As for manners; if people don't want to called Pakis, then just maybe you could respect that. Or maybe you can't.

Yeah, shame about Turing's treatment but criticise the nation of 50 years ago all you like but in our pretend sanitised society none of those things have really changed have they?

btw ... whilst you are googling about try googling Burgess, Philby and Maclean. It cuts both ways.

[BuckyRover]

Past = worse

Now = good

Future = better

Just to make things clear

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Yeah, shame about Turing's treatment but criticise the nation of 50 years ago all you like but in our pretend sanitised society none of those things have really changed have they?

btw ... whilst you are googling about try googling Burgess, Philby and Maclean. It cuts both ways.

The nation of 50 years ago was a very very different place in comparison to today. Alot has changed in that time, most of it for the better. If people have to explain this to you then I dont think this debate is worth having. Stop excusing racists for using racist terms by saying that it was acceptable 50 years ago. I hope you're just being provocative but I fear that you actually mean some of the stuff you're coming out with.

[BRFC95]

most of it for the better.

Really?

Were you around fifty years ago or are you just guessing?

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Really?

Were you around fifty years ago or are you just guessing?

Im not guessing, Im educated.

I didnt think i had to live through the 50's in order to say that today's society has progressed somewhat since then. Do you disagree? I also didnt live through the 40's either but i think the Nazi's werent up to any good. Even in the 80's black footballers were openly abused on the pitch - although as i wasnt around to actually live theough much of the 80's i guess i must be wrong.

[broadsword]

Equal opportunities aside, personally I think I would've quite liked living 50 years ago.

A more gentle pace to life, less crowing etc. Technology wasn't up to much, but people weren't too fussed.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Equal opportunities aside, personally I think I would've quite liked living 50 years ago.

A more gentle pace to life, less crowing etc. Technology wasn't up to much, but people weren't too fussed.

Thats the point though. Women, homosexuals, ethnic minorities were all treated like second class citizens. Society has, thankfully evolved since then. Which is why words such as 'Paki' werent so offensive back then but now are considered highly insulting.

[thenodrog]

Thats the point though. Women, homosexuals, ethnic minorities were all treated like second class citizens. Society has, thankfully evolved since then. Which is why words such as 'Paki' werent so offensive back then but now are considered highly insulting.

You weren't around in the 80's yet you reckon to be so knowledgable about the 50's!

'Paki' wasn't insulting at all, in fact it was never used .... cos we'd never even bloody well seen one!

All our national hatred was still focused at the Box heads, Japs and the Russki's. They really were shared public enemy No 2..... after the catholics of course.

Thing is you could leave your door open all night and the car unlocked. Jobs were so plentiful that unemployed people were labelled as skivers. No Aids, Herpes, Pig flu, obesity. Snow every winter and sunny days all summer. 0-0 in football only occurredd cos the match had been abandoned.... and only then because the snow had covered the corner flags.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

You weren't around in the 80's yet you reckon to be so knowledgable about the 50's!

'Paki' wasn't insulting at all, in fact it was never used .... cos we'd never even bloody well seen one!

All our national hatred was still focused at the Box heads, Japs and the Russki's. They really were shared public enemy No 2..... after the catholics of course.

Thing is you could leave your door open all night and the car unlocked. Jobs were so plentiful that unemployed people were labelled as skivers. No Aids, Herpes, Pig flu, obesity. Snow every winter and sunny days all summer. 0-0 in football only occurredd cos the match had been abandoned.... and only then because the snow had covered the corner flags.

'you reckon to be knowledgeable about the 50's'.... well, was i wrong in what i said? Was i wrong about the racial/gender issues which i previously mentioned? We're talking about racial climate comparisons between now and back then, and I dont think you can say it was better for racial minorities during the 50's. Which is why the argument that, today the word 'Paki' isnt offensive as other terms such as 'shagging' is ludicrous.