[Archived] Racist Chanting By "Rovers Supporters"

[Tris]

. Latest one was Adams.

Anyway people come out of pubs/clubs usually just hop in the first to arrive. Christmas period is not the time for pratting around when you want to get home and out of the cold. The fact of the matter is that sharp practice is being condoned and to condone such and thereby allow and even encourage it to continue and will give the Blackburn youth plenty of scope for their malicious agenda.

Anyway whats with the capitals Tris?

Just trying to help... learn by your mistakes and all that. Safety is paramount, and patience is a virtue. You wouldn't pile in to the nearest restaurant without checking the next one down the street would you?

[AggyBlue]

You're condoning racist chants because of some (allegedly) dodgy taxi drivers?

It's almost as bad as blaming a very small minority of the population (skinheads) almost forty years ago for the said word being offensive in the first place (Re - Eddies linked article by Murad Ahmed).

[thenodrog]

If this is indeed correct (which it may well be) I view those people the same way I view people like you. Why do you judge an entire continent (were these people Chinese by the way?) from isolated incidents? The people who put up that sign are more than likely racist, and if that was reported to the police then they would have acted, no doubt about it. I am disgusted that somebody would do such a thing, but I am also disgusted with your inflammatory comments which to be honest look pathetic. It just sounds like the rubbish they feed people at bnp rallies, clumping together a few half truths and blowing them out of proportion.

Really braddock? Well I can reveal that the police merely 'had a quiet word' at the time but that the council did indeed act upon it. Within a few years the proprietor of the petrol station Yusuf Jan Virmani became Mayor of Blackburn! Granted it was as a sop to please the 'Gang of Six' asian councillors who were blackmailing the Labour controlled council by threatening a mass defection to the Tories and Lib Dems if they did not get greater representation.

But tell me do you think that honour would have been bestowed on a white chap if the situations were reversed and he had stuck up a sign offering fuel to 'whites only'? That is the type of inverted racism that I think aesf is alluding to and exactly the type of issue that fuels the racism that you purport to abhor.

Just trying to help... learn by your mistakes and all that. Safety is paramount, and patience is a virtue. You wouldn't pile in to the nearest restaurant without checking the next one down the street would you?

If I was in a flimsy mini skirt, high heels and it was cold and raining then quite probably yes.

btw I hope I've left a mental picture imprinted in your subconcious Tris?

[braddock]

Really braddock? Well I can reveal that the police merely 'had a quiet word' at the time but that the council did indeed act upon it. Within a few years the proprietor of the petrol station Yusuf Jan Virmani became Mayor of Blackburn! Granted it was as a sop to please the 'Gang of Six' asian councillors who were blackmailing the Labour controlled council by threatening a mass defection to the Tories and Lib Dems if they did not get greater representation.

But tell me do you think that honour would have been bestowed on a white chap if the situations were reversed and he had stuck up a sign offering fuel to 'whites only'? That is the type of inverted racism that I think aesf is alluding to and exactly the type of issue that fuels the racism that you purport to abhor.

I think that those are huge accusations. Blackmail, gangs and inverted racism. Thankyou for 'revealing' this but I would need some proof before taking your word for it.

Can we move on to my other points then? Points on topic?

actually, unless you guys are gonna post about the racist chanting this should go in another thread. people (myself included) are deviating away from the topic.

[thenodrog]

You are truly a sad, vile, prejudiced, pathetic little man.

Keyboard warrior's turned up again I see.

[thenodrog]

I think that those are huge accusations. Blackmail, gangs and inverted racism. Thankyou for 'revealing' this but I would need some proof before taking your word for it.

braddock you'd be too young probably. It's well documented though. There was even a TV special featuring the Gang of six debacle and the entire local election farce following Bill Taylor being booted out of Audley ward basically for refusing to publically condemn Jack Straws stance on Saddam Hussain and the invasion of Iraq. 'Nothing but scum' accusations from Paul Browne (Lib Dem) when the 6 went back on their promise and returned (with metaphorically a pocketful of concessions signed by Jack Straw) to the Labour fold was quite enthralling TV. Kate Hollern didn't do herself any favours either if I rem correctly. She'd have been better sticking to the radio.

[PAFELL]

Just like to say that as a Muslim I DO celebrate christmas, granted I dont have a christmas tree but do have a nice turkey meal at lunch and celebrate it as its the birth of christ (Isa in Islam), I know quite a few who do celebrate it too.

Apologise for my inaccurate comment about Muslims not clebrating Christmas. I stated that because of a conversation I had, ironically with a taxi driver in Darwen, who said most Muslims do not celebrate Christmas, but respect other religious festivals. I therefore presumed that was a general attitude.

[Paul Mellelieu]

AESF has posted a number of messages which can only be considered to contain racist views. Surely that's against forum rules.

[modes98]

Anti Euro Smiths Fan: Unless you work for the police/security company then you cannot comment as to what would or would not happen with any certainty so please do not state it as fact. I am sure that the authorities take any allegation of racial abuse with the same degree of seriousness.

[Lurid Coat]

The word "racist" gets thrown around very quickly nowadays. Somehow - without having trawled through all of AESF or Gordon's posts - I don't think that the posters in question are racist. They may be prejudiced, but I don't think they have anything against people with dark skin colour per se.

I absolutely loathe people who dislike other people simply because of skin colour, gender, sexual orientation etc. But you cannot deny that there are a vast number of immigrants that refuse to get integrated properly into Western society. As I'm from Oslo (Norway), I can't really speak about the situation in Blackburn. Oslo, however, has for many years been regarded as somewhat of a safe haven for immigrants, due to naive immigration policies. The politicians have finally woken up and smelled the coffee, though - even the ones on the far left.

It is an undeniable fact that immigrants in Norway are over representated in several crime statistics - especially rape (Somali immigrants), knife violence and gang violence (Pakistanis). It is an undeniable fact that conservative muslims in Oslo hold archaic, anti-female and homophobic views. I have many a time felt unsafe and threatened by gangs of young guys with origins from Pakistan and Somalia. There's a couple of "ghettos" in Oslo that are almost exclusively Somali. You wouldn't go there alone at night. Strangely enough (or is it?), I have never had a bad experience with female immigrants. Never. Actually, most of them are integrated, speak fluently Norwegian, etc. This, I suppose, is mainly due to the fact that conservative Islam embraces an archaic macho culture - males are the strong ones, males can do pretty much whatever they want. Women, on the other hand...

Several well integrated immigrants from Pakistan have recently started to sign up as members for the Norwegian far right party - FrP. This party is far from as extreme as the BNP and the right wing parties in France and Austria, but they want to restrict immigration and instead focus on integrating the vast amount of immigrants we already have living here. Yes, you read correctly - immigrants becoming members of a party that wants stricter immigration policies. These individuals are fully integrated into our society, do a damned good job, and are a positive influence on Norwegian society. They're tired of having their reputation tarnished by the (sadly, majority of) immigrants who refuse to accept Norwegian rules and norms.

This hasn't anything to do with racism or hating people solely for how they look. I have nothing against Somalis or people with dark skin colour. What I am fed up with, however, is the ones who stubbornly refuse to become integrated into Norwegian society. If you invited guests into your house, I'm sure you would prefer if they followed the house rules and acted civilized.

[thenodrog]

AESF has posted a number of messages which can only be considered to contain racist views. Surely that's against forum rules.

You forgot to put 'imo' after the word 'views'. And thats where your argument falls down.

aesf is careful to take the middle ground. He appears to simply want fairness and equality for all which is something we are not getting through overly PC attitudes and irrational fear of causing offence. Whats wrong with that? The history of Britain would have been far different if our ancestors had been willing to let all and sundry take our national trousers down and give us a good rogering as you obviously would have. Never mind the Oh so evil British Empire in the 19th century if everybody was like you in the 20th we'd all be speaking German now and you'd be a bar of soap.

Tell you what instead of continually seeking to permanantly silence and suppress all those with different opinions and viewpoints than yourself why don't you simply stay away? What do you fear that aesf might do to you? Or do to anybody else for that matter?

[only2garners]

aesf is careful to take the middle ground.

If you seriously think that aesf's views are the middle ground, it just demonstrates how far away from the centre your middle is.

[CrazyIvan]

If you seriously think that aesf's views are the middle ground, it just demonstrates how far away from the centre your middle is.

I agree with that. AESF sometimes has a point but always makes it so significantly skewed that the point itself becomes moot. Gordon, don't dig yourself any bigger a hole than you have already. You've made yourself look quite ridiculous and much further right than Maggie. I'm definitely not a left wing extremist and I would hazard a guess that most of the rest of us aren't either, but the way you put your views across makes me think that you would only see us as such because you are so far over to the right wing. I'd give up now but I bet you won't because I've seen you continue on with a pointless argument before.

As with the racist chanting itself, I heard the 'You're just a town full of P*****' from the Wigan fans very clearly. I didn't hear the chant from the Rovers fans at all. I don't have selective hearing either so I think that might have been a relatively isolated group of people. Having said that, I know there was a couple of 20 somethings behind me who were very vocal who wanted Hughes back and Sam out, said a couple of very racist things about a couple of Rovers players and were generally very negative about everything. They didn't sing anything racist, just made a few comments. It makes me think that the 'Kick it out' campaign needs to be revived and put to the forefront again.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

You forgot to put 'imo' after the word 'views'. And thats where your argument falls down.

aesf is careful to take the middle ground. He appears to simply want fairness and equality for all which is something we are not getting through overly PC attitudes and irrational fear of causing offence. Whats wrong with that? The history of Britain would have been far different if our ancestors had been willing to let all and sundry take our national trousers down and give us a good rogering as you obviously would have. Never mind the Oh so evil British Empire in the 19th century if everybody was like you in the 20th we'd all be speaking German now and you'd be a bar of soap.

Tell you what instead of continually seeking to permanantly silence and suppress all those with different opinions and viewpoints than yourself why don't you simply stay away? What do you fear that aesf might do to you? Or do to anybody else for that matter?

Well clearly you sympathise somewhat with AESF's stance otherwise you wouldnt mention your pride in the British Empire or how your idea of liberals equates to people who would have lost the Second World War. A stance which i do not agree with but I have no issue with you bearing those opinions, nor AESF. But when those opinions are used to if not condone racist behaviour, then certainly defend those who are guilty of such acts, thats when it crosses a line.

The arguments formulated by AESF and partially by yourself if i remember your handful of posts, essentially boil down to a pathetic tit for tat hypothetical situation that if the Asian population displayed equally racist behaviour toward white people then there would be much less of an outcry. For one thing thats not the situation we're dealing with, and second of all that has no bearing whatsoever on whether the chant which is being sung at Rovers games is racist, it is, and any avoidance of that fact, or any partial defence given for those who sing it quite frankly deserves as much ridicule as possible.

This is not simply political correctness or an example of your perverted sense of liberalism, its just a reaction by people who honestly believe that racist language/chants/behaviour is abhorrent and if you do sympathise with any of those views then just keep them to yourself, or alternatively, support a different football club.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

If you seriously think that aesf's views are the middle ground, it just demonstrates how far away from the centre your middle is.

Too right. He's up there with BRFC_Casuals for voicing potentially extreme/outspoken/controversial views. Middle ground, my arse.

[Mattyblue]

Too right. He's up there with BRFC_Casuals for voicing potentially extreme/outspoken/controversial views. Middle ground, my arse.

total nonsense, this messageboard has become a talking shop for liberal oneupmanship. I havent heard such utopian, everything in the garden is rosy claptrap since I was at university surrounded by middle class twits from the Home Counties who has no idea of how immigration affects society.

AESF and drog put together well thought out posts not just reactionary replies like 'stop stop your a bigot' I'm sorry you may not like to hear this but those from the naughty, nasty right wing of the political spectrum are not all racist homophobes.

Get away from your keyboard and if you are in Blackburn take a look around the town, it has completely transformed in 40 years, this change had occured with no public mandate. Yet, if anyone remotely deviates from the accepted consensus that a 'multicultural society is a great benefit to Britain' line than the overused and lazy 'racist' tag is used.

[Tom]

Come off it if you can't see that at least some of AESF's posts have racial undertones then you're either an apologist or blind. They seem to range from African players to Muslims in Blackburn but the message is clear. Why else is there a need to discuss the population percentages in a thread like this?

That Nick Griffin chap aint a bit racist either he just doesn't think everything is rosy

[braddock]

I can deal with the ignorance and potentially volatile content, but what I don't understand is why he decided to start coming out with it in a thread discussing racist chanting? He just seemed to list off a load of factors which had nothing to do with what we are discussing, and look what has happened because of it! Unless he has a problem with people not being allowed to sing racist songs I suggests he unburdens all of his semi-political views in a different thread. If he wishes to discuss the treatment of those threatened with bans then fair enough, but please can he stick to the topics. This has become a thread about taxi drivers, petrol and royalty . let's get back to the facts. If anybody has a problem with not being able to sing racist songs let's hear about it.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

total nonsense, this messageboard has become a talking shop for liberal oneupmanship. I havent heard such utopian, everything in the garden is rosy claptrap since I was at university surrounded by middle class twits from the Home Counties who has no idea of how immigration affects society.

AESF and drog put together well thought out posts not just reactionary replies like 'stop stop your a bigot' I'm sorry you may not like to hear this but those from the naughty, nasty right wing of the political spectrum are not all racist homophobes.

Get away from your keyboard and if you are in Blackburn take a look around the town, it has completely transformed in 40 years, this change had occured with no public mandate. Yet, if anyone remotely deviates from the accepted consensus that a 'multicultural society is a great benefit to Britain' line than the overused and lazy 'racist' tag is used.

No no no no. This is where you're going very wrong. Nobody has been saying that having an alternative opinion to immigration or multiculturalism is 'racist', its the singing of the word 'paki' at a football match that I and most people on this board fundamentally object to. Your opinions regarding the racial tensions within Blackburn are free to be held and can come down to debate. But thats not the direct issue here. Its when people like AESF/Nodrog have tried to justify using racist language at a football game by citing the wider racial issues in Blackburn, that problems arise.

Regardless of your beliefs around multiculturalism, it doesnt mean that anyone can be defended for singing a racist chant at a football match. If Iam an overly politically correct liberal for not being racist then thats not an accusation which im offended by.

[CrazyIvan]

No no no no. This is where you're going very wrong. Nobody has been saying that having an alternative opinion to immigration or multiculturalism is 'racist', its the singing of the word 'paki' at a football match that I and most people on this board fundamentally object to. Your opinions regarding the racial tensions within Blackburn are free to be held and can come down to debate. But thats not the direct issue here. Its when people like AESF/Nodrog have tried to justify using racist language at a football game by citing the wider racial issues in Blackburn, that problems arise.

Regardless of your beliefs around multiculturalism, it doesnt mean that anyone can be defended for singing a racist chant at a football match. If Iam an overly politically correct liberal for not being racist then thats not an accusation which im offended by.

Spot on. It's buggerall to do with political views on immigration etc. It's all about whether racist chanting is defensible in any way, which it truly isn't.

[joey_big_nose]

No no no no. This is where you're going very wrong. Nobody has been saying that having an alternative opinion to immigration or multiculturalism is 'racist' its singing the word 'paki' at a football match that I and most people on this board fundamentally object to. Your opinions regarding the racial tensions within Blackburn are free to be held and can come down to debate. But thats not the direct issue here. Its when people like AESF/Nodrog have tried to justify using racist language at a football game by citing the wide racial issues that problems arise.

Regardless of your beliefs around multiculturalism, it doesnt mean that anyone can be defended for singing a racist chant at a football match. Thats not being PC or liberal before you leap in with such accusations.

100% true.

The only point here is singing 'paki' is absolutely and utterly unacceptable, especially in the derogatory context it is used, and the vast number of fans find it shameful that a small minority are doing it.

There is nothing to defend, there is nothing to excuse, and the way it is going to end is either the people concerned stop or they are banned. There is no alternative, the only question is whether the reputation of the club is utterly ruined before either conclusion is reached.

[broadsword]

It's a dead thread, no-one's prepared to defend it.

[Nafe_rovers]

I have noticed alot about the BNP and can i just say the BNP are not a racial party.... its a common misconception, it is the individuals. The constitution of the BNP say's nothing about colour (BTW im not BNP I am conservative)

Racism happens everywhere, i got called the N word by a black man... (im white) so i just laughed at him and said there is so much wrong with that sentence you idiot.

You cannot get away from it, it is however a minority thing and hopefully one day these minorities will die out!

[joey_big_nose]

I have noticed alot about the BNP and can i just say the BNP are not a racial party.... its a common misconception, it is the individuals. The constitution of the BNP say's nothing about colour (BTW im not BNP I am conservative)

That's ludicrous. They explicitly say on their website that they are a party for the English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish 'folk community'. That is a racial definition.

[Nafe_rovers]

That's ludicrous. They explicitly say on their website that they are a party for the English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish 'folk community'. That is a racial definition.

but how is that being racist?