[Archived] Racist Chanting By "Rovers Supporters"

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

I'm in court on the 14th, hopefully I have a strong case. There's no evidence, just some over zealous steward. I've complained about racist chanting on this forum before - so I'm clearly not a racist. I'll get a 3 year ban, lifetime at Ewood and a 'Racist and Indecent Chanting' chart on my CRB (which would prevent me from going into Social Work or teaching, I wouldn't be so stupid to sing that song). If I fail at Magistrates, I'll appeal and take my case to Crown. If anybody was sat on Row R in block one, or there abouts - I'd be grateful if you could PM for a chat.

I think it's scandalous that somebody like yourself who says that he didn't sing any of the song (I have no reason to disbelieve you) is being prosecuted by overzealous loonies, following a hysterical overreaction to one word in this song.

Welcome to Brown's New Labour Britain, where young lads can potentially get criminal records and be prevented from taking up certain jobs in the future on ridiculously flimsy evidence, following a hysterical outcry over the use of one word in a song.

Needless to say there's been no prosecution for Prince Harry or for Anton du Beke when they were caught on video saying the word "Paki". Yet in your case OhmiBRFC, when the evidence is much less clear-cut that you said the naughty word (I'm presuming that there's no video evidence to suggest that you sang the word "Paki") and yet you are the person facing prosecution, while Prince Harry gets off scot-free.

What a ridiculous state of affairs.

[Tom]

I think it's scandalous that somebody like yourself who says that he didn't sing any of the song (I have no reason to disbelieve you) is being prosecuted by overzealous loonies, following a hysterical overreaction to one word in this song.

Welcome to Brown's New Labour Britain, where young lads can potentially get criminal records and be prevented from taking up certain jobs in the future on ridiculously flimsy evidence, following a hysterical outcry over the use of one word in a song.

Needless to say there's been no prosecution for Prince Harry or for Anton du Beke when they were caught on video saying the word "Paki". Yet in your case OhmiBRFC, when the evidence is much less clear-cut that you said the naughty word (I'm presuming that there's no video evidence to suggest that you sang the word "Paki") and yet you are the person facing prosecution, while Prince Harry gets off scot-free.

What a ridiculous state of affairs.

Out of interest do you think any of the idiots who do sing it would admit to it when facing a potential charge?

Then again even if so I expect you'd defend them and think they're victimised, poor little racists.

[philipl]

Singing those chants is a cretinous thing to do and anyone who doesn't appreciate how harmful and demeaning the chant is is obviously a bit on the insensitive side to say the least but it really does pain me to read of Rovers fans facing bans and worse.

There has plenty of fore-warning that this sort of thing would not be tolerated so why are those folk being so utterly moronic in singing this stuff?

Only one little word? How stupid can you be???

[Ricky]

Philip, I went to Birmingham away and couldnt believe how many people were singing it.

[Tris]

Ohmi, so even your mate is on here saying you were singing it minus the last line, yet you claim to have not sang that sone at all...

Out of interest do you think any of the idiots who do sing it would admit to it when facing a potential charge?

Singing those chants is a cretinous thing to do and anyone who doesn't appreciate how harmful and demeaning the chant is is obviously a bit on the insensitive side to say the least but it really does pain me to read of Rovers fans facing bans and worse.

There has plenty of fore-warning that this sort of thing would not be tolerated so why are those folk being so utterly moronic in singing this stuff?

I've spent a bit of time with all three of you guys, and I've also spent a bit of time with OhmiBRFC (on the ferry to Rotterdam). My judgement on his character would be that he would be as unlikely to be involved in racist chanting as any of you three would (with apologies to Tom and Philip because you didn't reference him directly).

Ohmi, I hope you get the right result in court. I fear for you, because you will be up against bodies which have quotas to meet, and you're an easy (and cheap) statistic for them to notch up.

Make sure you check out The Football Supporters Federation website and take all the advice and support that's there. Luck shouldn't come into a court case ... but good luck anyway mate.

[Tom]

Fair do's Tris, I don't know Ohmi from Adam so I couldn't say either way but I was playing Devils Advocate, probably in a place where it was unecassary but my point still stands, 99% of the time the accused would deny all charges.

Best if luck to Ohmi if he is wrongly accused but I would be inclined to agree with you Tris, a noise has been made about this now and the authorities may be looking to be seen to be taking action to examples will be made of some people, we can only hope the right people get punished and the innocent let off.

I do think the chant gained momentum because it has a catchy tune as well and now that Coyle is no longer at Burnley we will hear it less, although there is reports of other things being sung but I havn't heard the like since the first game the toilets went.

[AggyBlue]

Ohmi, I hope you get the right result in court. I fear for you, because you will be up against bodies which have quotas to meet, and you're an easy (and cheap) statistic for them to notch up.

If the 'witch hunt' mentality is the norm, as seems to be the case on this MB then he's no chance.

[Tom]

If the 'witch hunt' mentality is the norm, as seems to be the case on this MB then he's no chance.

Will there not be footage of the incidents in question from the stadium to help prove the case either way?

I would have thought if a steward took note of any behaviour then the cameras would be trained on the area in question?

[Ricky]

I shall retract my previous comment if that's the case It's not really helping ohmi's case if one of his mates who was with him at the time isn't even managing to get his story straight though tris. Probably one of the first things you'd want to get straight in all honesty, that's what made me question the validity of his statement.

[philipl]

Another reason why this singing has to stop.

The authorities inevitably go for the soft and innocent targets, not the provacateur in the middle.

Good luck ohmi- hope your innocence is confirmed.

[waggy]

I'm in court on the 14th, hopefully I have a strong case. There's no evidence, just some over zealous steward. I've complained about racist chanting on this forum before - so I'm clearly not a racist. I'll get a 3 year ban, lifetime at Ewood and a 'Racist and Indecent Chanting' chart on my CRB (which would prevent me from going into Social Work or teaching, I wouldn't be so stupid to sing that song). If I fail at Magistrates, I'll appeal and take my case to Crown. If anybody was sat on Row R in block one, or there abouts - I'd be grateful if you could PM for a chat.

you won't be the 1st innocent fan to recieve a banning order,get yourself a brief.there was a fight on the riverside during the spurs game,when a rovers fan objected to rovers fans calling macarthy a lazy bl''' ######.the guy got beaten up for standing up to racist's and he faces a banning order as well

[waggy]

Was that towards the DE of the Riverside? I saw that too, some young lad got bundled away by the stewards... Was he doing the chanting or objecting to it?

he was doing the chanting,and even worse is a teacher

[dazmaz]

I shall retract my previous comment if that's the case It's not really helping ohmi's case if one of his mates who was with him at the time isn't even managing to get his story straight though tris. Probably one of the first things you'd want to get straight in all honesty, that's what made me question the validity of his statement.

as ohmi stated i was at the far end to him of our group. i thought he was arrested for something else and found out why through word of mouth.

it is a real big problem people are being prosecuted without sufficient evidence, even more so when the accused are inmocent and it would screw up their career plans.

[dunc]

It's worrying that the main person promoting the singing section in the darwen end has that view. Not a great start abbzy.

I think you're confusing abbzy with azzy_b !!

[thenodrog]

Muslims do not celebrate xmas, so of course they are going to use it as family time. It is forbidden that they celebrate anything outside of Muslim tradition.

Nafe..... Be a step forward if muslims could do away with so frequently using the word 'forbidden' in reference to your religion. It's got medieval connotations. 'Discouraged' for example would be far more acceptable in this day and age, it would display a move toward bilateral tolerance instead of the one way unilateral version which is all that is seemingly required today, Overall it would be far more.. dare I say... PC.

[thenodrog]

I'm not condoning anything. One can never defend the indefensible but I'm merely pointing out that the white trash on the BBurn end who sing these songs are having resentment handed to em on a plate. A £5 taxi ride rising to £10 cos it's Christmas is a big issue for many people. Point being that Christmas is just another day and another dollar for muslims. They should really be happy with the increased business without taking the mickey.

To be fair...Christmas means as much to most Muslims as it does to most indigenous British folk these days. If you are not a praticing Christian (and ignoring the fact that it was originally a Pagan festival) then it is just an excuse for stuffing yourself silly and going on the Revidge Run*. It is no longer a religious festival for the vast majority. They celebrate it in places like China. Japan and India these days.

*If there are enough pubs to do the Revidge Run these days that is...

Another dollop of resentment handed to them on a plate. The long standing tradition of the Revidge run has become just another victim of the sweeping demographic change in Blackburn.

[thenodrog]

I'm in court on the 14th, hopefully I have a strong case. There's no evidence, just some over zealous steward. I've complained about racist chanting on this forum before - so I'm clearly not a racist. I'll get a 3 year ban, lifetime at Ewood and a 'Racist and Indecent Chanting' chart on my CRB (which would prevent me from going into Social Work or teaching, I wouldn't be so stupid to sing that song). If I fail at Magistrates, I'll appeal and take my case to Crown. If anybody was sat on Row R in block one, or there abouts - I'd be grateful if you could PM for a chat.

Why? They were useless - if they did their job properly it would have been good.

Don't worry OHMIBRFC. I'm sure that the two strongest foundations upon which our democracy is built will not allow for you to be punished if what you say is true. The rock solid principles of 'Freedom of speech' and 'Innocent until proven guilty' will never allow for any miscarriage of justice.

Or at least they shouldn't in any modern day valued society......

[cletus]

I`m no legal expert but i`d be dumbfounded if there was any conviction without either video evidence or the involvement of a police officer who actually saw Ohmibrfc saying the P word.

[thenodrog]

I`m no legal expert but i`d be dumbfounded if there was any conviction without either video evidence or the involvement of a police officer who actually saw Ohmibrfc saying the P word.

Cletus I keep re-iterating that pakistan, pakistani, or any shortened version is not racist in itself nor ever should be. It is offensive in this chavvy song of course ... along with a munber of other words and suggestions, but please don't put misplaced political correctness before grammatical and factual correctness.

Using the term 'P word' instead of the above is basically reducing the correct name of that country to a rude or banned word and imo I'm sure is highly offensive in itself to someone from that country.

[RevidgeBlue]

I`m no legal expert but i`d be dumbfounded if there was any conviction without either video evidence or the involvement of a police officer who actually saw Ohmibrfc saying the P word.

The evidence of the steward would theoretically be enough, but don't forget the magistrates have to be sure beyond any reasonable doubt before they can convict. Therefore from a defence point of view it is often enough to merely muddy the waters a little and create an element of doubt.

Where was this bloke stood? Did he have a clear view of Ohmi? Even if he did, how can he be sure that what he thought he was saying was a line of that song (without being an expert lip reader) etc, etc.......

Ohmi, if this case is likely to affect your future career prospects you definitely need to pay hire a decent criminal law solicitor. In the past you would most likely have been eligible for criminal legal aid, although I'm not sure what the exact criteria are now. Even if you have to pay it will be a worthwhile investment in the long run and if you are found not guilty you can claim your costs back off the prosecution anyway.

If the prosecution offer you a deal of pleading guilty to some lesser watered down charge, don't agree if it would still affect your career prospects/ability to attend games.

[broadsword]

Not all words aren't neutral though.

Some words start off neutral then become verboten because derogatory usage has given them a negative connotation. "P*ki-bashing", "Smelly p*ki" ... to use the p-word now is to recall the past when such terms were common-place.

Maybe in a few generations the stigma will ease and people will refer to Pakistanis as P*kis.

But for now, you can't use the term whether you like it or not, so don't say it. Easy. The people who chant this song aren't using the word as a plain descriptor, it's meant to be insulting. they're certainly not trying to reclaim the word free from derogatory intent.

I do worry if they're going to be busting people who are innocent by-standers. A criminal record for being stood near the perpetrators, based on hear-say? Er, no thanks.

[thenodrog]

Not all words aren't neutral though.

Some words start off neutral then become verboten because derogatory usage has given them a negative connotation. "P*ki-bashing", "Smelly p*ki" ... to use the p-word now is to recall the past when such terms were common-place.

You've fallen into the trap now! The offensive words are the adjectives and NOT the noun!

And if you want to hand some sort of hollow victory albeit 30 years late to a tiny handful of 50 year old ex skinheads then go ahead cos I don't.

[broadsword]

Yeah, that'll make the skinheads cry into their beer, referring to pakistanis as "pakis". Be careful, don't upset the skinheads too much.

So, I could sing: "He shags pakis", but I couldn't sing: "He shags paki slags"?

I think we need to re-legislate to make people aware of the distinction.

[RevidgeBlue]

You've fallen into the trap now! The offensive words are the adjectives and NOT the noun!

Although to be fair that definitely isn't a line of defence I would advocate in Court!

[cletus]

The evidence of the steward would theoretically be enough

Really??

I thought stewards were trained in ground safety not the ins & outs of racial law.