[Archived] Racist Chanting By "Rovers Supporters"

[AggyBlue]

It is the context of the word and its use, and not the word itself, that is everything.

Much in the same way the flag of St George was offensive because it was a reminder of the crusaders and many councils bent over backwards to try and ban it. BLAH.

It's all about a minority trying to get one over the majority.

As for the chanting, kids have always tried to be obnoxious and offend as many people as possible, what's new. Get over it, it's just a bloody song.

[Ossydave]

It's definitely not just kids singing it though it's grown bloody men!

[AggyBlue]

It's definitely not just kids singing it though it's grown bloody men!

I've heard it but not seen the songateers

[Eddie]

Simple point is that if no one thought paki was offensive then it wouldn't be used.

[LeChuck]

I can't believe people are trying to defend the chant by deliberately misunderstanding the context.

It wouldn't surprise me if affects the players when they hear it - why would they want to play for a bunch of idiot racist fans*? If this ever breaks as a major story (which I think it will if it carries on) then we could really be in the ######. I think we're generally perceived as one of the 'good guys' in the game, a family club. That would vanish instantly.

*Perhaps not worded well...obviously it's a small minority of people, but unfortunately vocal.

[Ossydave]

I've heard it but not seen the songateers

Think badly dressed blokes with no front teeth and you won't be far wrong.

[AggyBlue]

Simple point is that if no one thought paki was offensive then it wouldn't be used.

Well it would because it's short for Pakistani.

How can one be offensive and not the other?

[Paul]

Hardly a suprise..... meaning?

It's fairly clear I'd have thought, most of us tend to surround ourselves with friends and acquaintances who hold similar views. It's therfore not surprising I only know one person who finds Paki an acceptable term while you say you know many.

btw Paul just to prove it cuts both ways how about this? http://www.political...com/blog/kafir/

Just cos you haven't heard about it and other derogatory terms doesn't mean that they doesn't exist. How do you feel about "Owen Coyle shags kafirs"? Is that better for you? So c'mon... Do you believe in Allah or not?

I don't actually know the song people are referring to but I presume it says Owen Coyle shags Pakis? I knew what kafir means but I can't see how it's offensive in the same way as Paki. Your link says it's the worst word in the human language, so if I use the words kafir and c**t to a group of white women, as an example, which do you imagine they would find the more insulting? I guess, but don't know, if I was to address a group of Muslim women this way the response might be reversed? I could introduce you to Christians who describe Muslims as unbelievers damned forever simply because those Christians are so one-eyed they cannot accept there is another road. You can't compare kafir and Paki as one is religious description and the other a term widely regarded as derogatory towards people of that race. TBH Owen Coyle shags kafirs wouldn't offend me at all but then I wouldn't be offended to be called a kafir either.

Do I believe in Allah? Yes. Do I believe in Christ, God or the Holy Spirit? Yes. While I'm not especially religious I believe these images, beings, deities or however we describe them exist / existed for millions of people and played an important role in defining how our societies developed and grew to what we have today.

[RovertheHill]

Much in the same way the flag of St George was offensive because it was a reminder of the crusaders and many councils bent over backwards to try and ban it. BLAH.

It's all about a minority trying to get one over the majority.

As for the chanting, kids have always tried to be obnoxious and offend as many people as possible, what's new. Get over it, it's just a bloody song.

What on earth are you talking about? The reason the flag of St George was embarrassed at one point in time was because idiot bigots and racists adopted it as "their" unofficial symbol. And thereby made it embarrassing for normal proud English people to display the flag. Much in the same way that idiot bigots and racists are making it embarrassing for normal proud Rovers fans at away matches.

Dress it up however you like, call it just a bloody song all you like, it's offensive and it will end up heaping shame on this club

[Eddie]

Well it would because it's short for Pakistani.

How can one be offensive and not the other?

The words have different meanings, it's simple. If you can't understand that then I don't really know how you've managed to switch on your computer and get this far. At the root of things paki isn't offensive, but it's evolved into an offensive word. It somewhat depends on context, but it is rarely used when it isn't intended as a negative or to hurt.

[AggyBlue]

The words have different meanings, it's simple. If you can't understand that then I don't really know how you've managed to switch on your computer and get this far. At the root of things paki isn't offensive, but it's evolved into an offensive word. It somewhat depends on context, but it is rarely used when it isn't intended as a negative or to hurt.

Good start if somewhat offensive in trying to demean my intelligence.

I've never seen a reasonable explanation as to why the word is offensive, can you provide one?

[American]

I'd say at least half of the concourse at halftime sung it, and it was the loudest chant during that time.

Since he's a dingle, he shags his sister would make better sense.

(Though if rumors ever get substantiated......)

[Paul Mellelieu]

The problem that thenodrog and asef is that they don't understand some basic concepts: I think they are a more than a bit thick.

[Ossydave]

(Though if rumors ever get substantiated......)

I don't see how they can be true due to the way the person in question was described.

[philipl]

Well it would because it's short for Pakistani.

How can one be offensive and not the other?

This certainly gets the prize for being a naive comment.

You'll be saying Gerry and German are they same thing next or Spic and Hispanic.

[Eddie]

Good start if somewhat offensive in trying to demean my intelligence.

I've never seen a reasonable explanation as to why the word is offensive, can you provide one?

Have a read of this then...

and a little bit of the article...

"To put it politely, anyone who thinks that the word Paki is acceptable is unaware of this sordid history or unable to understand its significance. Put another way, if you think that it's all right to call someone a Paki you're ignorant or stupid. See how using words in a certain way can come across as insulting or cruel? That's the point. Words are powerful, and we should take care how we use them."

[RIML]

Have a read of this then...

and a little bit of the article...

"To put it politely, anyone who thinks that the word Paki is acceptable is unaware of this sordid history or unable to understand its significance. Put another way, if you think that it's all right to call someone a Paki you're ignorant or stupid. See how using words in a certain way can come across as insulting or cruel? That's the point. Words are powerful, and we should take care how we use them."

I posted that link about a month ago. Have a look who wrote the article

[tony gale's mic]

Anyone who seriously thinks the word "paki" should be allowed to be used in this day and age is either bigoted, f**king stupid, or both. No arguments, no questions.

I'm sure since I have the day off tomorrow I will be drawn into providing a justification but its a sorry state that I even need to.

[Tom]

Anyone who seriously thinks the word "paki" should be allowed to be used in this day and age is either bigoted, f**king stupid, or both. No arguments, no questions.

I'm sure since I have the day off tomorrow I will be drawn into providing a justification but its a sorry state that I even need to.

Well said that man, although this thread seems to be now going in circles and some are obviously just playing devils advocate by saying but but but Paki is just short for Pakistani as Brit is for British

[tony gale's mic]

Well said that man, although this thread seems to be now going in circles and some are obviously just playing devils advocate by saying but but but Paki is just short for Pakistani as Brit is for British

It's always the same names who defend racism and bigotry on this board though. I think one or two of the people here might be playing devil's advocate but there's a couple of names that I just knew would be sticking up for the racists.

[USABlue]

Anyone who seriously thinks the word "paki" should be allowed to be used in this day and age is either bigoted, f**king stupid, or both. No arguments, no questions.

I'm sure since I have the day off tomorrow I will be drawn into providing a justification but its a sorry state that I even need to.

Then I'm all of the above I use it all the time, still when I left we weren't all weepy eyed sensitive so easily offended. Now I wonder if the YANKS will understand if I break down and cry when they call me Brit or Limey, or the Black folks will hand me a tissue when I hear myself referred to as cracker or white bread. World's gone mad.

This certainly gets the prize for being a naive comment.

You'll be saying Gerry and German are they same thing next or Spic and Hispanic.

If we are being all PC Hispanics are beaners.

[Eddie]

The world hasn't gone mad. How hard is it to understand that some terms are more offensive than others? It is very easy to sit there as a white westerner and say that people should get a grip, try and think about if that particular term was associated with decades, sometimes even centuries, of racism, discrimination and cruel treatment. Try and imagine the colour of your skin or nationality being your defining quality in the eyes of others and on top of that, having it be a negative.

If you can't understand how language works then think of it in this sense:

Why is crap basically acceptable but sh*t isn't?

Why is make love or even to sleep with someone acceptable but f*** isn't?

Slight differences in words are everything. History, context...it all comes into it. If you think that calling someone a yank, a brit or a cracker is the same as calling someone a Paki or a N*gger then you clearly failed at developing the rather essential ability to understand gradation and degrees.

[tony gale's mic]

Then I'm all of the above I use it all the time, still when I left we weren't all weepy eyed sensitive so easily offended. Now I wonder if the YANKS will understand if I break down and cry when they call me Brit or Limey, or the Black folks will hand me a tissue when I hear myself referred to as cracker or white bread. World's gone mad.

Hmm..I should add a caveat. If you've never lived in this country you may not understand the connotations of the word. There was a time, admittedly a long time ago, when the word "ni**er" was considered acceptable in the US and wasnt used in a derogatory fashion. This can be found here("Among Anglophones, the word nigger was not always considered derogatory, because it then denoted “black-skinned”, a common Anglophone usage"). Admittedly from wiki but that quote references the Oxford Reference Dictionary. Then historical events conspired, became tied up with the word and now it's considered socially unacceptable.

Similarly, I'm sure Paki was once used much the same as "Brit" in this country by some polite folk. But for at least 25-30 years in the UK it's been tied in with racial abuse, racial violence, is used indiscriminately to describe all South Asians and now its considered as unacceptable in this country as "ni**er". Everyone past primary school age knows this in this country and this has been the case for at least a generation if not longer. Therefore there is absolutely no excuse to use it.

Down in Australia it doesnt have these connotations, and a friend tells me he once heard a commentator saying on the cricket down there "The pakis have started well today". That situation is different, these words are all about context and down there its perfectly likely and probable that since the word isnt considered an ethnic slur in Aussie English, it can be used innocently. I'm sure the case is the same with American English.

But now this much has been explained, if you still believe that it was OK for football fans who'd grown up in the UK to use that word, I refer you to my earlier post.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

The problem that thenodrog and asef is that they don't understand some basic concepts: I think they are a more than a bit thick.

Ooooo................this should be good!

[thenodrog]

It's fairly clear I'd have thought, most of us tend to surround ourselves with friends and acquaintances who hold similar views. It's therfore not surprising I only know one person who finds Paki an acceptable term while you say you know many.

THATS COS I SPEND MOST OF MY TIME WITH NORMAL EVERYDAY PEOPLE. YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T.

I don't actually know the song people are referring to but I presume it says Owen Coyle shags Pakis? I knew what kafir means but I can't see how it's offensive in the same way as Paki. Your link says it's the worst word in the human language, so if I use the words kafir and c**t to a group of white women, as an example, which do you imagine they would find the more insulting? I guess, but don't know, if I was to address a group of Muslim women this way the response might be reversed? I could introduce you to Christians who describe Muslims as unbelievers damned forever simply because those Christians are so one-eyed they cannot accept there is another road. You can't compare kafir and Paki as one is religious description and the other a term widely regarded as derogatory towards people of that race NATIONALITY NOT RACE PAUL. WORLD OF DIFFERENCE. PLEASE ENGAGE YOUR BRAIN . TBH Owen Coyle shags kafirs wouldn't offend me at all but then I wouldn't be offended to be called a kafir either.

Do I believe in Allah? Yes. Do I believe in Christ, God or the Holy Spirit? Yes. While I'm not especially religious I believe these images, beings, deities or however we describe them exist / existed for millions of people and played an important role in defining how our societies developed and grew to what we have today.

YEAH OK PAUL...... AND DOES THAT EXTEND TO FAIRIES, ELVES AND TROLLS TOO?