[Archived] 12 Months On From Ince

[DP]

Nail on the head there EIT. I think most people are missing Rev's point. It's not comparing Sam with Ince, but with the Rovers now vs the Rovers a year ago under Sam. Maybe this topic should have come up 1 year and 4 games after Sam's appointment, might make it more clear.

I think very little has improved. People have to remember that whilst we were heading down with Ince, My Gran could keep us up in this league such is the incompetance of the majority of teams in the bottom half of the table.

Transfers he's on the whole, done well, but performances have left a lot to be desired. We've proven on the odd occasion we can play good football but time and time again we revert to hot potato long ball tactics. This doesn't bring the best out of our players and in turn, means they don't work as hard.

[G Somerset Rover]

This is what I'm struggling with today:

Niko looks decent on the deck, he has a good touch and his hold up play was excellent. Roberts cannot and will not head a ball, he backs into the defender and complains to the ref. So WHY everytime do we hoof it up the field when it's not of benefit to one of our strikers? IT JUST KEEPS COMING BACK!

Secondly, our lack of continuity in Big Sam's selections. We were told we "were damn unlucky not to win Saturday" and yet we make four changes with only one being enforced. What did EHD, Roberts and MGP ever do to deserve a call up? I can bet that they won't play for a game or two but then in a couple of weeks they'll come waltzing back into the side, no doubt about it.

How Kalinic and Di Santo are ever meant to build up a partnership (or any two of four) when our strikeforce is like a revolving door is beyond me. It's common sense for God's sake. If I'm put upfront in Sunday League with a guy I've never played with before then chances are we're going to be like strangers. It's infuriating.

I'm becoming sick and tired with our football. Last night was not football, it was horrible to watch route one garbage. We were missing Dunn, Grella and Emerton but in reality we're always going to be missing two of the three so we have to battle on. I'll say one thing, we wouldn't have scored in a million years last night had it not been for a set piece. And that's not football.

[John]

  On 16/12/2009 at 09:58, Somerset Rover! said:

We were missing Dunn, Grella and Emerton but in reality we're always going to be missing two of the three so we have to battle on. I'll say one thing, we wouldn't have scored in a million years last night had it not been for a set piece. And that's not football.

When we miss our best players, particularly in midfield, we are going to struggle (especially away from home where it is more difficult to pick up results). That is the reality. In relation to our midfield, it is poor in comparative terms anyway, so any players missing is going to affect us negatively.

Also, on set pieces, they are a massive factor in today's game - don't know the stats but plenty of teams in the Premier League score from them.

[Hughesy]

  On 15/12/2009 at 23:25, 47er said:

When Ince left we were firmly in the relegation zone---5 points clear of safety. Now we are 12th but obviously not without our problems. But lets not lose perspective. This was a stupid thread in the first place.

Well said that man!

[JAL]

  On 15/12/2009 at 22:43, philipl said:

Ince was an absolute disaster. We were going to be relegated and stuffed full of MK Dons players and mates like Fowler if he had his own way. Oh, and we'd be playing pub football hungover from team-bonding benders (and about as physically fit).

Sam knows how to keep us up but I feel fully justified in having been one of the Facebook 2000.

Tonight showed just how mediocre he is. That was not football the way Blackburn folk are used to seeing Rovers play.

Unfortunately one horrendous decision has lead to a second deeply sub-optimal reaction appointment. Sam is son of Ince- neither of them should have been selected but Ince put the club into such a dire situation, we had virtually no choice.

Thats as good a brief and accurate summation as any on here philpl.

Once big Sam has steady the ship maybe the end of this season, then, will be the time for the board to redeem themselves and make the appropriate appointment to take Blackburn Rovers forward.

[Hughesy]

  On 16/12/2009 at 23:57, JAL said:

Thats as good a brief and accurate summation as any on here philpl.

Once big Sam has steady the ship maybe the end of this season, then, will be the time for the board to redeem themselves and make the appropriate appointment to take Blackburn Rovers forward.

Disagree 100%. People need to put things into perspective. Consider Bottom of the league and way behind, to 12th and Semi of a cup this year!

If as expected - we see an improvement this season - say maybe 12th as the final outcome, then we should see what Sam can do for next season. I think the longer we keep Sam, the stronger we shall grow. We are going in the right direction - the road isnt just a striaght road, there are sum bumps along the way, but generally we seem in decent health....and improving (but for the odd blip).

Maybe in 2 years time it may be time to move to something else - but given his ability with a tight budget, I doubt there is many better.

[Guest Kamy100]

Ince was a disaster from start to finish.

Sam did a wonderful job last year in keeping us up. This year I expected the team to progress, however in some areas we seem to be going backwards. Sam will keep us in the premiership, he has the know how, if he hangs around for another season we may even push into the top 8 but the price for that is the football that we see, Sam only knows one style and he is not going to change his ways.

[Eddie]

  On 17/12/2009 at 08:59, Hughesy said:

Disagree 100%. People need to put things into perspective. Consider Bottom of the league and way behind, to 12th and Semi of a cup this year!

If as expected - we see an improvement this season - say maybe 12th as the final outcome, then we should see what Sam can do for next season. I think the longer we keep Sam, the stronger we shall grow. We are going in the right direction - the road isnt just a striaght road, there are sum bumps along the way, but generally we seem in decent health....and improving (but for the odd blip).

Maybe in 2 years time it may be time to move to something else - but given his ability with a tight budget, I doubt there is many better.

1) Let's not overplay the semi-final of a cup. We've beaten one premier league team to get there. It was a great night, but Allardyce wasn't even fully in charge. It was a cup-tie and they shouldn't decide how you assess a season unless you are holding silverware.

2) We need to move on from the last year giving Allardyce ground to destroy this club. Fact is our position now is pretty much the same as the end of January last year. Now that isn't a problem so long as things start to move forward, but they do have to start to move forward at some point in the near future.

3) Improving right now? I think that would be hard for you to prove.

I admire your optimism, but Allardyce has a big 6 months coming up. He's failed to make us compete with larger teams and he's failed to make us so solid that we deal comfortably with the teams towards the bottom, that's the type of nothing side that tends to struggle.

[Hughesy]

  On 17/12/2009 at 10:07, Eddie said:

1) Let's not overplay the semi-final of a cup. We've beaten one premier league team to get there. It was a great night, but Allardyce wasn't even fully in charge. It was a cup-tie and they shouldn't decide how you assess a season unless you are holding silverware.

2) We need to move on from the last year giving Allardyce ground to destroy this club. Fact is our position now is pretty much the same as the end of January last year.

3) Improving right now? I think that would be hard for you to

1 = You can only beat what is put infront of you.....and the Sam comment was expected!

3 = You answered it in 2.....We are in a similar position 6 weeks earlier - "how can I prove that we are improving"?!?!

Seriously come back to me at the end of the season and lets see if we progressed any based on this year. Position wise, points wise, performances against the big boys, player wise & attendance wise...... As for the Cup - last year we only faced the Mancs but couldnt do it - this year we did it against Chelsea......

[47er]

  On 17/12/2009 at 10:07, Eddie said:

1) Let's not overplay the semi-final of a cup. We've beaten one premier league team to get there. It was a great night, but Allardyce wasn't even fully in charge. It was a cup-tie and they shouldn't decide how you assess a season unless you are holding silverware.

2) We need to move on from the last year giving Allardyce ground to destroy this club. Fact is our position now is pretty much the same as the end of January last year. Now that isn't a problem so long as things start to move forward, but they do have to start to move forward at some point in the near future.

3) Improving right now? I think that would be hard for you to prove.

I admire your optimism, but Allardyce has a big 6 months coming up. He's failed to make us compete with larger teams and he's failed to make us so solid that we deal comfortably with the teams towards the bottom, that's the type of nothing side that tends to struggle.

Out of the woodwork again Eddie after a bad result! You're just revealing what you've always felt. You've never given this manager a chance. Quiet when we win and if we win on Saturday you'll be quiet again.

[thenodrog]

  On 17/12/2009 at 10:07, Eddie said:

I admire your optimism, but Allardyce has a big 6 months coming up. He's failed to make us compete with larger teams and he's failed to make us so solid that we deal comfortably with the teams towards the bottom, that's the type of nothing side that tends to struggle.

Allardyce has a big month coming up.... January. He needs to wheel and deal in a desperate attempt to get the dollopers and glass backs out and get better players in .... whilst fighting a rear guard action to keep the likes of Samba here. We are borassic of course but he did well last Jan and just above average in summer so lets hope he can repeat the trick. With our finances though it can only be a gradual process until he's able to get his own men in. Until that time it is difficult to judge accurately but comprehending that is way beyond the intellects of so many of our shallower thinkers on here.

[Hughesy]

  On 17/12/2009 at 10:38, 47er said:

Out of the woodwork again Eddie after a bad result! You're just revealing what you've always felt. You've never given this manager a chance. Quiet when we win and if we win on Saturday you'll be quiet again.

TCO is another - The day of the game & the day after - he was the top posted with 40+ posts within 24 hours all the time - obviously he wont be posting 40+ if we win our next game!!

[Paul]

  On 17/12/2009 at 12:33, Hughesy said:

TCO is another - The day of the game & the day after - he was the top posted with 40+ posts within 24 hours all the time - obviously he wont be posting 40+ if we win our next game!!

Just face up to the fact the club could place 11 shirts on the pitch, still wrapped in the packaging, and you'd be cheering the shop manager as the world's greatest. Some people want to watch football.

BTW before you mention it I haven't commented on the last two games because I've not seen or read anything about them but from what I gather Hull was OK and Birmingham was awful. I await Saturday with interest.

[Hughesy]

  On 17/12/2009 at 13:15, Paul said:

Just face up to the fact the club could place 11 shirts on the pitch, still wrapped in the packaging, and you'd be cheering the shop manager as the world's greatest. Some people want to watch football.

No, but I WOULD be there still supporting my team no matter what, no excuses - through thick & thin

[Eddie]

I think that we all are, doesn't mean that we can't question what is going on.

  On 17/12/2009 at 10:38, 47er said:

Out of the woodwork again Eddie after a bad result! You're just revealing what you've always felt. You've never given this manager a chance. Quiet when we win and if we win on Saturday you'll be quiet again.

I think you'll find that in my 7+ years on this messageboard I've never needed an excuse to post. The majority of my recent posts have actually been about computers and the Wolves situation.

I come on and post after every game. If you can be bothered go back and read and you'll see that I posed after both the Bolton and Chelsea games.

  On 17/12/2009 at 10:16, Hughesy said:

Seriously come back to me at the end of the season and lets see if we progressed any based on this year. Position wise, points wise, performances against the big boys, player wise & attendance wise...... As for the Cup - last year we only faced the Mancs but couldnt do it - this year we did it against Chelsea......

Attendance wise isn't down to Allardyce, that's down to the great season ticket deal. The test in that respect will be if the people who have signed on renew for next year.

This wait and see approach is exactly what some of us were told when we had doubts about how we were playing towards the end of the season. Then the position was that "once we are not in a relegation fight and Allardyce has had time he'll get us playing good football". That seems to have been quickly forgotten about.

[Hughesy]

I think this next summer is the real acid test for Sam... we have limited funds and it cant all be done in 1 summer - SO THE WAIT & SEE APPROACH STILL NEEDS TO BE TAKEN.

The next stage of our rebuilding is the midfield. We have Dunn (in talks), Reid & MGP all with only 6 months to go on their contracts, we also have to decide on Grella & Andrews & Diouf....Realistically that leaves us with NZonzi & Emerton & probably Dunn. Once the midfield has been tinkered with, thats when we will be in a better position to judge the style and the ability of our team.

The midfield has been our problem for about 3 years - its nothing Sam has done. He has signed 1 promising midfielder in NZonzii, hopefully he will add to that in either Jan or the Summer.

[Eddie]

He's also managed to sign one of the players almost everyone agrees that we need to get rid of. He then signed three right backs instead of addressing the midfield.

There's room for optimism, but it has to be tempered with realism and criticism. I think we've got some good components to the current squad (Benni, Hoilett, Kalinic, Di Santo, Dunn, Samba, Robinson, Nelsen, Givet, N'Zonzi) and we have a lot of dead wood, some of which has been Allardyce's doing. I'm all for giving him a bit more time, but at some point time runs out and a judgement has to be made. Most made that judgement day around now, but when we get to February he will have had three windows in charge and spent quite a bit (you can say that he had to sell Santa Cruz, but seeing as he never had him that hasn't been a loss).

I'm not calling for him to go and this could still turn out to be a great season for us. I agree that he should get through the summer to build his team, but if we sit through two more windows and we are looking at a few more old stars looking for a payday (looking at you Salgado) and a few ex-Allardyce players coming to recreate a nice little club here (looking at you Diouf) and the midfield problems that have been clear to any Rovers fan for about 3 years haven't been addressed...

I hope he gets us playing better and gets some better players in, we need him to.

[Hughesy]

  On 17/12/2009 at 16:41, Eddie said:

He's also managed to sign one of the players almost everyone agrees that we need to get rid of. He then signed three right backs instead of addressing the midfield.

There's room for optimism, but it has to be tempered with realism and criticism. I think we've got some good components to the current squad (Benni, Hoilett, Kalinic, Di Santo, Dunn, Samba, Robinson, Nelsen, Givet, N'Zonzi) and we have a lot of dead wood, some of which has been Allardyce's doing.

Is your 1st point referring to Diouf?!

Also prior to him signing 3 right backs - people were calling for 1...he addressed that, he just Od'ed on them!

Of your 10 good components there are 4 Sam signings + Hoilett (who he fought to get back). So 50% of our good stuff has been brought in by him in 12 months.....he also ridded us of Mokoena & the ageing Ooijer.

[philipl]

I think we had all hoped Sam had had a post heart trouble change of heart about how to play the game but Brum pulled us up short in those aspirations which made it even more awful an experience.

All managers can get away with one or two characteristics from the following three:

- mind bogglingly sterile anti-football of utter boredom

- keystone cops defending leaking stupid goals

- losing

Sam served up all three on a numbingly cold Tuesday night away at the dump that is St Andrews Birmingham.

For that, the supporters have every right to roast Sam's gonads over the Yule log.

Metaphorically speaking...

(and knowing that I could never post such a comment on dinglesmad because they would take it literally as Stan Ternant's wife's charred coat evidenced)

[broadsword]

  On 17/12/2009 at 14:25, Hughesy said:

No, but I WOULD be there still supporting my team no matter what, no excuses - through thick & thin

You are to Rovers what Pravda was to the Soviet regime. It gets a bit tiresome after a while.

[T4E]

  On 17/12/2009 at 19:45, Bryan said:

You are to Rovers what Pravda was to the Soviet regime. It gets a bit tiresome after a while.

Comical Hughesy?

[47er]

  On 17/12/2009 at 19:45, Bryan said:

You are to Rovers what Pravda was to the Soviet regime. It gets a bit tiresome after a while.

Have you even heard of the concept of "constructive criticism". I criticise the manager when I think he's got it wrong, like Tuesday's selections for example. But, unlike yourself and Eddie and a few more, its not with a view to getting him sacked.

[broadsword]

What makes you think that anything I say will have any influence upon his employment opportunities? And why do you think your criticism will be constructive, is he taking tips on football tactics from this messageboard.

You happen to be wrong, I call it as I see it, sorry if you don't like it.

Best way for Allardyce to get himself sacked is to keep going like he did Tuesday.

[USABlue]

I think he has been going like he did Tuesday on a regular basis, the brief respite coming when he was under doctors orders to stay away. Is he really that stubborn. We are definately not as bad off as Ince position wise but I think if we carry on in this vein we will be.

[thenodrog]

  On 17/12/2009 at 23:06, USABlue said:

I think he has been going like he did Tuesday on a regular basis, the brief respite coming when he was under doctors orders to stay away. Is he really that stubborn. We are definately not as bad off as Ince position wise but I think if we carry on in this vein we will be.

Lets swop him with Notlob for Megson then. That way everyone will be happy .... wont they?