[Archived] Mick Mccarthy

[ancient]

Was m.mcCarthy right to rest his players for the visit to mu, given there performance on sat at spuds, what would we think (say) if Sam did that???

[jonman105]

no

[mellison24]

Was m.mcCarthy right to rest his players for the visit to mu, given there performance on sat at spuds, what would we think (say) if Sam did that???

We'd be outraged. But it's the manager's prerogative and should in no way be illegal. A pathetic rule.

[ancient]

hoping to get some thoughts rather than just yes or no

[RibbleValleyRover]

As I said on the premier league thread I have no problem with him doing what he did, a squad of more than 11 players is there for a reason and is meant to be used. He gave reasons to back up his decision after the game, several players coming back from long term injuries, some players carrying some small injuries and some he felt needed a rest going into what will be a heavy christmas/new year schedule.

If the manager feels that leaving players out of a game is the right thing to then so be it, its a results based business so their career's will either live or die based on their actions.

[Tom]

If he gets a win on Sunday then I would say it has paid off.

[Eddie]

It's his choice. He's the manager. How far are we going to take this? Could we still complain if they had won? It's such a high pressure job and they are under scrutiny for everything they do, at the very least they deserve to be in total control. If people want to question what he is doing because he is resting players and as result the team is struggling then that is one thing, but to make it "illegal" seems to be the wrong approach.

[Tom]

Hypotheticals time, Steven Gerrard says he wants to leave Liverpool at the end of the season, with 2 games left Benitez drops him and makes him train with the reserves until he leaves.

Should Liverpool be fined for not including him on those last 2 games?

[jny]

Sorry to say this but does anyone think he looks slightly like count olaf from a series of unfortunate events fame,

My view is that he was wrong to 'rest' his players when they are most likely (well in most cases) to be raring to go, what sort of message does it send out to them if they're not getting a game despite playing brilliantly and he puts a weak team out to face a big team, has to be more of a head on approach in my opinion

[mellison24]

Hypotheticals time, Steven Gerrard says he wants to leave Liverpool at the end of the season, with 2 games left Benitez drops him and makes him train with the reserves until he leaves.

Should Liverpool be fined for not including him on those last 2 games?

FA: yes.

Anyone with a braincell: Are, you off your head? Of COURSE NOT!

[den]

Seeing that we have two threads running in parallel, I'll post this on here as well:

Wolves are the first club to say loud and clear by their actions alone, that they can't compete with Man Utd and they are happy to throw the game. They will deny that of course, but that is what they have done. Rovers under Ince and now Allardyce have referred to other games being "more winnable".

The debate should not be "were Wolves right to do it?", because they obviously went against the rules. The question should be "are the fans of the lower placed clubs [insert Rovers here] going to accept their team throwing games as well?"

Anyone?

[Eddie]

As I was getting at, all that does for me is put more pressure on the manager to pick up points in the games that he deems "winnable". Under Allardyce we have often followed up our inept performances against the big sides with poor performances against the weaker teams; which makes playing around with your side and tactics pointless. If Wolves go and win this weekend or at least pick up a good number of points over the Christmas period then McCarthy will be able to say he was correct. If they go on to lose the next couple of games then it raises more questions about how good of a job he may be doing.

Personally I think Premier League footballers should be fit to play 38-50 games of football in a season, even if at one point of the season 4/5 games are packed into a fortnight. So with that being said, there should be no reason to rest players for games. I understand that players get injured and there are times when maybe a player would be put in with a bit of a niggle or a strain because the game is so important that it is worth the risk, but in general whoever is best and fit should play. If you are saying that you can't get your side in that sort of fitness then you are saying that you aren't doing your job properly or that you haven't brought in the right players.

This isn't a matter for the league, this is a matter for the Wolves board and fans to look at. I can't see why they'd be particularly unhappy with McCarthy at the moment, he seems to be doing a decent job with a side most expected to go down.

All I can say is that upsets are fairly common in this league and so it's always worth going for it; those extra 3 points can make a big difference.

[den]

This isn't a matter for the league, this is a matter for the Wolves board and fans to look at. I can't see why they'd be particularly unhappy with McCarthy at the moment, he seems to be doing a decent job with a side most expected to go down.

The supporters club are asking for the club to refund their money Eddie, so they are very upset. £45 for the ticket + travel + food/drinks adds up to around £100 each. Many of them said they wouldn't have gone to Old Trafford if they had known what McCarthy was going to do.

You didn't answer my question exactly, so do I assume you would be OK for Rovers to field 10 reserves home and away against the top clubs, knowing they were certain to lose?

[mellison24]

As I was getting at, all that does for me is put more pressure on the manager to pick up points in the games that he deems "winnable". Under Allardyce we have often followed up our inept performances against the big sides with poor performances against the weaker teams; which makes playing around with your side and tactics pointless. If Wolves go and win this weekend or at least pick up a good number of points over the Christmas period then McCarthy will be able to say he was correct. If they go on to lose the next couple of games then it raises more questions about how good of a job he may be doing.

Personally I think Premier League footballers should be fit to play 38-50 games of football in a season, even if at one point of the season 4/5 games are packed into a fortnight. So with that being said, there should be no reason to rest players for games. I understand that players get injured and there are times when maybe a player would be put in with a bit of a niggle or a strain because the game is so important that it is worth the risk, but in general whoever is best and fit should play. If you are saying that you can't get your side in that sort of fitness then you are saying that you aren't doing your job properly or that you haven't brought in the right players.

This isn't a matter for the league, this is a matter for the Wolves board and fans to look at. I can't see why they'd be particularly unhappy with McCarthy at the moment, he seems to be doing a decent job with a side most expected to go down.

All I can say is that upsets are fairly common in this league and so it's always worth going for it; those extra 3 points can make a big difference.

Which is exactly what McCarthy did. His regular 1st teamers needed a rest due to exhaustion (ie: unfit). I don't see why there is an issue with what he did.

[den]

Which is exactly what McCarthy did. His regular 1st teamers needed a rest due to exhaustion (ie: unfit). I don't see why there is an issue with what he did.

Bloody hell Mellison, he threw the game, why can't you see that?

[chocky]

I don't like what he did but, say Manchester United are playing Portsmouth on a Wednesday and the Chelsea on the Saturday..What if Fergie Puts Van Der Saar in goal then puts ten "reserve " outfield players in the squad for this match...They win 2-1, would people's reaction be the same...I doubt not..But then again I would not want Sam doing this to Rovers..But with large squads of 22-23 players to pick from how can a manager be told who he can pick from that squad to play in any particular match?...I say McCarthy has done what he thinks is right for Wolves...If they get three points from Burnley at the weekend the Wolves fans will be cheering him..If they loses he will be berated again..The premiership may be the bread and butter of the football clubs but the die has been cast by managers playing reserve teams in cup matches...I hope it is not so but Mccarthy may have set a precedence...

[mellison24]

Bloody hell Mellison, he threw the game, why can't you see that?

I can see it. On one hand (your hand) it's a case of double standards (a la ManYoo vs Hull and countless other teams). On the other hand (mine) he simply used the team he thought best to use. It's what he's paid to do and should be left alone until it goes A over T. He didn't 'throw' the game. There would be none of this had he won. He'd be a tactical genius and this pathetic rule would never have surfaced.

[den]

He didn't 'throw' the game. There would be none of this had he won. He'd be a tactical genius and this pathetic rule would never have surfaced.

The whole point is that they couldn't win and they knew it and didn't care. Would you continue to watch rovers if they did this regularly, at home and away against the top sides?

[mellison24]

The whole point is that they couldn't win and they knew it and didn't care. Would you continue to watch rovers if they did this regularly, at home and away against the top sides?

Yes. It's called being a dedicated supporter . But surely the point is that he's done this ONCE. While ManUtd (and all the top4 sides) do this REGULARLY. Was Rafa not in breach of this rule with his continuous rotations? The rule is null and void in the sense that full-strength is purely subjective. Allardyce was (in theory) also in breach of this rule last night was he not? A full-strength side would have been DiSanto, McCarthy and Hoilett in place of Roberts, Pedersen and Dunn.

[mellison24]

Nobody mentioned this rule when Allardyce fielded weakened teams against Arsenal away and Liverpool away last season. So why now? Just because the team was weaker, it was still 11 vs 11 and he still COULD have won! In that case, no-one would be bothered, so the VERY argument over this rule is hypocritical.

[Amo]

Martin Allen said on Sky Sports that McCarthy was within his rights to play a reserve side, but should have announced his line-up in the build-up to the game.

[Mattyblue]

How is this different then United resting their whole side against Hull last season?

The match meant nothing for them, saving their first XI for their next game.

Were they also not bringing the game into disrepute? A rule is a rule no?

[mellison24]

Martin Allen said on Sky Sports that McCarthy was within his rights to play a reserve side, but should have announced his line-up in the build-up to the game.

He DID. The players in both teams went across the screen on SSN at about half 7. I did think it was a weak team, but thought nothing of it. It's his choice, imo. His job.

[Amo]

He DID. The players in both teams went across the screen on SSN at about half 7. I did think it was a weak team, but thought nothing of it. It's his choice, imo. His job.

He was talking earlier than that, so the fans would have an idea whether they want to waste their money or not.

[mellison24]

He was talking earlier than that, so the fans would have an idea whether they want to waste their money or not.

Fair point actually.