[Archived] Mick Mccarthy

[Ben-2000]

You look after your own affairs not other peoples, so YES he had the right to pick whichever starting 11 he wanted.

[cletus]

McCarthy was entitled to play whatever team he wanted. He opted to field a team that would in his words "get muller`d".

He more or less threw the game. It`s wrong, but he`s not broke the rules.....as they are.

If anything, he`s given Man Ure the edge in the title race, by simply handing them an easy win. Chelsea, Arsenal & the rest of the top teams are well within their rights to feel aggrieved.

On another note, if i was a Wolves fan & i`d paid £42 to watch the reserves get a pasting, i`d be one VERY unhappy chappy

[den]

Nobody mentioned this rule when Allardyce fielded weakened teams against Arsenal away and Liverpool away last season. So why now? Just because the team was weaker, it was still 11 vs 11 and he still COULD have won! In that case, no-one would be bothered, so the VERY argument over this rule is hypocritical.

I'm not discussing the rule, I'm trying to get a debate going on the ethics of the situation and whether the fans would put up with this occurring regularly throughout the season.

Martin Allen said on Sky Sports that McCarthy was within his rights to play a reserve side, but should have announced his line-up in the build-up to the game.

He doesn't know the rules then, but that's no surprise.

[mellison24]

I'm not discussing the rule, I'm trying to get a debate going on the ethics of the situation and whether the fans would put up with this occurring regularly throughout the season.

He doesn't know the rules then, but that's no surprise.

In the case of ripping off the fans, yes it is outrageous....but I don't see anything 'wrong' with it. Fans buy tickets upto 3 weeks before games. That is their choice. To suggest they need to know the team earlier ON THE DAY OF THE GAME is a little pointless, as they have bought them and will have planned the trip. It's at their own risk. Yes, they have a right to be outraged, but it's unfortunately something we as fans have to deal with.

[Mattyblue]

If Wolves stay up for a couple of years, their fans will soon learn like we have that matches at OT, Stamford Bridge et al are given away before a ball is kicked.

They will do what we do:

Largely stay away

A few will go out of blind loyalty

Then moan about '40 quid for that' etc

All get involved in a 'the Premier League is so uncompetitive', 'this aint the football i fell in love with' etc etc

Forget about it for a while until the next trip to a Sky 4 and the circle starts again!

[joey_big_nose]

I'm not discussing the rule, I'm trying to get a debate going on the ethics of the situation and whether the fans would put up with this occurring regularly throughout the season.

Depends on whether the fan:-

1) Went to the particular game

2) Belived resting the players would make a win in the next game more likely.

Personally I would find it depressing but accept the logic in it if we were looking leggy.

The question the FA should be asking is "how can we address the severe imbalance of the Premer League". This is the real issue rather than Mick McCarthy displaying a symptom of it.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Just musing that on the morning of Tuesday's match, before Mick announced his line-up, I would imagine that at the bookies Man United would have been available to beat Wolves at odds of around 1/5. But with half an hour before kick-off, once it became apparent that Mick had picked a reserve team, the odds for United to win would have changed to about 1/10.

If Mick had let it slip to one or two "friends" before Tuesday that he was going to pick a reserve team for the match at Old Trafford and those "friends" took advantage of the inside information by betting on United at more favourable odds with the bookies, then Mr McCarthy would be an absolute disgrace in my eyes. Though I should point out that there's no evidence that McCarthy did this. However sometimes "inside information" does indeed leak out.

In 2006 there was an alleged £16m betting sting on Harry Redknapp to become Portsmouth manager for the second time. The FA were concerned that there was very heavy betting on Redknapp to become Portsmouth's manager while he was still in charge at Southampton.

On Betfair's market for the Portsmouth job there was reported to have been a "significant and irregular" amount of £16.7m traded, an unusually large amount for such a market. When Premier League clubs have a managerial vacancy the norm generally is for only around £1m or less to be traded on the Betfair market.

Link to this story here

Going back to Mr McCarthy, I'm very uncomfortable with what he did on Tuesday night. If I was a Wolves fan I would have been disgusted if I had forked out a large sum of money to travel to Old Trafford to see a reserve team, with Mick basically washing his hands of the game, waving the white flag and not being interested in competing properly in it.

Arthur Williams, the chief of the North West Wolves supporters’ club, told the BBC today that McCarthy's line-up was "grossly disrespectful" to the Wolves fans who had travelled to the match.

Williams said: "Wolves sold out their allocation, paid £42 each plus the time and cost of travelling. My first reaction when I saw 10 changes and players playing out of position was that it was grossly disrespectful."

There were angry chants from Wolves fans at Old Trafford of "We want our money back", "Where is our first team" and "£40 to watch the reserves".

Although angry fans have asked the club for a refund, the Wolves Chief executive Jez Moxey said: "We have no plans to refund the £42 tickets".

Ridiculously, McCarthy claimed after the match: "I played my strongest team." He is insulting the intelligence of people.

[mellison24]

Just musing that on the morning of Tuesday's match, before Mick announced his line-up, I would imagine that at the bookies Man United would have been available to beat Wolves at odds of around 1/5. But with half an hour before kick-off, once it became apparent that Mick had picked a reserve team, the odds for United to win would have changed to about 1/10.

If Mick had let it slip to one or two "friends" before Tuesday that he was going to pick a reserve team for the match at Old Trafford and those "friends" took advantage of the inside information by betting on United at more favourable odds with the bookies, then Mr McCarthy would be an absolute disgrace in my eyes. Though I should point out that there's no evidence that McCarthy did this. However sometimes "inside information" does indeed leak out.

In 2006 there was an alleged £16m betting sting on Harry Redknapp to become Portsmouth manager for the second time. The FA were concerned that there was very heavy betting on Redknapp to become Portsmouth's manager while he was still in charge at Southampton.

On Betfair's market for the Portsmouth job there was reported to have been a "significant and irregular" amount of £16.7m traded, an unusually large amount for such a market. When Premier League clubs have a managerial vacancy the norm generally is for only around £1m or less to be traded on the Betfair market.

Link to this story here

Going back to Mr McCarthy, I'm very uncomfortable with what he did on Tuesday night. If I was a Wolves fan I would have been disgusted if I had forked out a large sum of money to travel to Old Trafford to see a reserve team, with Mick basically washing his hands of the game, waving the white flag and not being interested in competing properly in it.

Arthur Williams, the chief of the North West Wolves supporters’ club, told the BBC today that McCarthy's line-up was "grossly disrespectful" to the Wolves fans who had travelled to the match.

Williams said: "Wolves sold out their allocation, paid £42 each plus the time and cost of travelling. My first reaction when I saw 10 changes and players playing out of position was that it was grossly disrespectful."

There were angry chants from Wolves fans at Old Trafford of "We want our money back", "Where is our first team" and "£40 to watch the reserves".

Although angry fans have asked the club for a refund, the Wolves Chief executive Jez Moxey said: "We have no plans to refund the £42 tickets".

Ridiculously, McCarthy claimed after the match: "I played my strongest team." He is insulting the intelligence of people.

Merely bad wording. He picked his strongest AVAILABLE team. Any better? Either that or he is being a tactician (ie: doing his job). get over it. If we can get over crap like last night, so can Wolves.

[Eddie]

Just musing that on the morning of Tuesday's match, before Mick announced his line-up, I would imagine that at the bookies Man United would have been available to beat Wolves at odds of around 1/5. But with half an hour before kick-off, once it became apparent that Mick had picked a reserve team, the odds for United to win would have changed to about 1/10.

I'm a big betting man and I can tell you that no such thing happened. The price on United to win was about 1/6 with most bookies during the day and it didn't change much, if at all, after the teams were announced. I don't look at betfair that much, so that's where you would have seen the biggest change and I can't comment on that, but for the four actual bookies that I used yesterday none of them had a huge change in price.

United went in heavy favourites, stayed heavy favourites and won like heavy favourites should.

[Blue n White Rover]

Merely bad wording. He picked his strongest AVAILABLE team. Any better? Either that or he is being a tactician (ie: doing his job). get over it. If we can get over crap like last night, so can Wolves.

What bit don't you get, fans must have paid £42 for a ticket, £10 for parking, £20 travel and £15 on food and drink! That's nearly £100 to watch a game, where your side fields a weakened team! With the current Economic climate, that money does not come easy and you try earning a £100 and you'll know how difficult it is.

Wolves are a yo-yo club and how often do there fans get to visit one of the best stadiums in England? Not very often, and the only time they do get to visit it, they put out a reserve side and bend over backwards for United.

In my eyes it's not acceptable!

[den]

The question the FA should be asking is "how can we address the severe imbalance of the Premer League". This is the real issue rather than Mick McCarthy displaying a symptom of it.

Exactly JBN!

and that's the point I've been trying to get across. It's not about the rule, it's about football outside the top clubs going further and further away from what the fans dream of.

Ridiculously, McCarthy claimed after the match: "I played my strongest team." He is insulting the intelligence of people.

That would have peed me off more than anything. Can't stand people in football who take the paying fans as idiots. Much as I can't stand managers who can't say it as it was, in their after match interviews.

[DE.]

The question the FA should be asking is "how can we address the severe imbalance of the Premer League". This is the real issue rather than Mick McCarthy displaying a symptom of it.

Nail on head.

[Shaddy]

Bloody hell Mellison, he threw the game, why can't you see that?

With all due respect Den, I think you are being very sensationalist using the words "threw the game". You of all people should be more responsible than that. He did not deliberately lose the game. He didn't instruct his selected players to lose the game.

In my opinion, his first choice team would have had only a little bit more of a chance, still almost no chance, of winning the match anyway.

In any case, I am happy with the message that has been sent out by this action. And that is, the league has allowed the disparity between the top teams and the rest to become so great, it is entirely predictable what the result will be in these type of fixtures.

[Rover Down Under]

The question the FA should be asking is "how can we address the severe imbalance of the Premer League". This is the real issue rather than Mick McCarthy displaying a symptom of it.

Seconded, thirded, fourthied etc.

Don't blame Mick M in the slightest, it is his response to massive imbalance in the league which has been disrespecting the fans (of about 15 clubs) for years. We play in a two-tier league, fact, the lower tier looks increasingly like the top end of the Championship, scrapping it out with teams of similar skill for points. Games with the Big / Sky (I like that one!) 4 are irrelevant. FFS when you play Arse or Chelski it is a Fantasy Football team of the World's best players, Man U and Liverpool slightly less so but still leagues ahead of the opposition.

I hope this trend continues, I have suggested many times that fans boycott Big / Sky 4 away games in protest, this is what will happen if lower teams start to field reserve sides in the "unwinnable" games. Look at our first team after the Arse, Chelski drubbings - confidence completely smashed to pieces, Wolves will at least field a side on Saturday that won't feel like they've just been anally probed by a lampost, run over by a steamroller, ground to mince then shot into the centre of the sun.

Oh and as for the hypocrisy - do we hear complaints when the Big 4 play reserve teams in cup games? How disrespectful is that?

[Miker]

In my opinion, it is completely irresponsible of McCarthy to field an understrength side. Mainly due to fans paying money for tickets and travelling expenses and the fact that people have bet money on the game and it completely changes the context of the game.

I may have bet on Wolves winning or drawing the game following a great win against Spurs, but if I knew he was going to play a reserve side then no way would I do that.

This is why the FA is concerned and have the "must field your strongest side" clause because it is completely unfair to the fans and those that have placed bets. People are upset because he made TEN whole changes to the team, not just a couple.

My problem with this is it's done in the league cup quite often and no one says a thing, although I'm pretty sure teams like Arsenal announce this well before the game. I also think McCarthy had good reason to do so, we've had discussions about player fitness before and how they should be able to play two games in one week, but it's a fact that the more physical exercise you do, the easier it is to pick up and injury because your legs can only handle so much exertion, no matter if you are a professional athlete or not. The sort of intense physical strain that's placed on your legs during a game, especially a Premier League game, is immense and you can't blame managers for wanting to rest players. Especially in the case of McCarthy who has had to deal with a heap of injuries to key players.

He can really only be judged by their performance in the next game. If they win then McCarthy should be justified in his actions, otherwise I would expect a serious backlash. Especially if one of his key players get injured in the next game as well!!!

[Paul]

I'm not discussing the rule, I'm trying to get a debate going on the ethics of the situation and whether the fans would put up with this occurring regularly throughout the season.

I'd say it's very simple den. There's a large percentage of fans who won't give a monkey's about it, some will even defend the decision as in this thread, something which astonishes me. Fielding anything other than a team capable of winning the game, no matter how slim and I deliberatley avoid using the term "full-strength," is utterly wrong and completely indefensible. Anyone arguing otherwise has such a blinkered view of sport, or has been so tarnished by the PL, that it's impossible to have the debate.

The fundamental idea of any sport is to try to win. Not trying, which is what McCarthy did, skews the whole season for every team. I don't know the fixture list and this is obviously speculative but look at this scenario. Wolves field a weakened side against Utd and lose, the last day of the season with Chelsea needing only to win to secure the PL, Wolves field a much stronger team and win while Utd beat someone else to take the title. In this scenario Wolves have effectively given Utd six points. You can put together the exact same arguement in respect of a top four club fielding reserves against a releagtion candidate on the last day of the season. Its wrong

Too many modern football fans are like sheep, simply accepting what is put in front of them believing it's the greatest legaue in the world. The truth is six or seven clubs have ambition in varying degrees, 13 -14 have only survival and £30m a season as their target. If this is enough for the sheep good luck to them. Personally I think it stinks, McCarthy is, to a degree, cheating.

[Mattyblue]

Too many modern football fans are like sheep, simply accepting what is put in front of them believing it's the greatest legaue in the world. The truth is six or seven clubs have ambition in varying degrees, 13 -14 have only survival and £30m a season as their target. If this is enough for the sheep good luck to them. Personally I think it stinks, McCarthy is, to a degree, cheating.

Don't know about that Paul, I think most people on here defending McCarthy are aware that it stinks, but he has to do everything he can to keep Wolves in the division. As joey big nose pointed out, this is merely a symptom of the rottenness of the Premier League disease, masquerading as a 'competition' when it is anything but.

The Premier League (who remember is the clubs) will do nothing as they are well aware that it is the 'Big clubs' that generate the vast TV revenues at home and abroad, medlling will force another 1992 breakaway, this time with the elite forming their own TV deals, that coupled with their Champions League money, the Premier League will be even MORE uncompetitive. We have sold our game down the river.

Depressing ay

[den]

With all due respect Den, I think you are being very sensationalist using the words "threw the game".

Yes you're right Shaddy "threw the game" was over the top. I was trying to widen the point to the bigger picture.

"went into the game knowing they were going to lose and not caring about that" would have been a more apt description.

The discussion should be beyond the "well he's within his rights to do that" - kind of thing. If it were to become more widespread and it well could, what would be the reactions of the fans then? McCarthy and the rest would still want the fans to turn up and pay good money wouldn't they.

[Eddie]

Don't all the small sides essentially go to Old Trafford knowing that they are going to lose?

[ABBEY]

the bells of footy doth toll......

he should be kicked out the gamee and fined and ordered to pay every ticket back to the fans he ripped off!!!!!!

if every team did that at utd they would automaticcally get 54 points!!!!!!

IM UP TO HERE WITH FANS BEING RIPPED OFF ITS LIKE SAMS WAY ON AWAY GAMES ..I HAVE BROKE A PROMISE TO MY LAD,PROMISED HIM WE WAS GOING TO WIGAN BUT I AM NOT PREPARED TO PAY ONE PENNY TO RIPPED OFF BY SAMS BALLS TO THE AWAY MATCH APPROACH!!!!

Don't all the small sides essentially go to Old Trafford knowing that they are going to lose?

NO!! IT STARTS 0-0.

so villa beat them away and we play villa twice .should we say oh we cant win so lets play the reserves?

[Eddie]

It's a bit different.

[ABBEY]

why

[sparkspakespoke]

Mccarthy was right. He had an injury hit squad and a game comming up that was far more winnable. Managers of teh top four having been doing it for years, resting keys players for games they deem as more important. Why shouldnt Mccarty be able to make that call as well? As the manager of Wolves he has to do what he thinks is right to keep them up. You may not like it but nowadays its all about staying in this league, thats the way things stand and you just have to adjust to it, because it's not going to change anytime soon.

[Miker]

Our first team playing like crap isn't the same as the manager deliberately putting out a team of crap players.

[Amo]

He doesn't know the rules then, but that's no surprise.

Really? I remember Ancelotti naming 9 of his 11 the other week in the press-conference before the game.