[Archived] Mick Mccarthy

[American]

That's not the case is it. Managers are free to rotate their squad. It's the 10 outfield replacements, coupled with the reaction of the fans that has caused it to come to the attention of the PL.

It's not an easy one Shillts, I agree. The best outcome for the fans is for the clubs to realise that it's unfair to do what McCarthy did.

But what number is allowed? Is 9 ok? 8? 7? What if you made 7 changes and subbed the other 3 at the half? What if the first team was given food poisoning by Arsenal, ala Spurs?

Hate to say it, but when you buy the ticket, it says Blackburn Rovers, not Paul Robinson, Lars Jacobson, Chris Samba, Ryan Nelsen....

[LeChuck]

Hate to say it, but when you buy the ticket, it says Blackburn Rovers, not Paul Robinson, Lars Jacobson, Chris Samba, Ryan Nelsen....

...Sam Allardyce...

[den]

But what number is allowed? Is 9 ok? 8? 7? What if you made 7 changes and subbed the other 3 at the half? What if the first team was given food poisoning by Arsenal, ala Spurs?

Hate to say it, but when you buy the ticket, it says Blackburn Rovers, not Paul Robinson, Lars Jacobson, Chris Samba, Ryan Nelsen....

The rule hasn't been used as far as I know in the last 50 years, so if Wolves hadn't gone ridiculous and virtually thrown in the towel at Old Trafford, pushing the rule to it's limit, it couldn't have been used this time.

They have brought it onto themselves. Hopefully they will get punished so a clear message is sent to every club that they have responsibilities to other clubs and their own fans.

[philipl]

19 in two games is pushing it a bit.

[Eddie]

The Manc and Liverpool teams were chosen at the end of season so the argument could be made, tenuously, that players were exhausted, injured etc. there was no PL game following those games in which the cynicism of those selections could be held up for ridicule.

Wolves have just made ten changes then another nine changes in mid-season.

IF the PL want to act, they can do so without letting those earlier games set a precedence for doing nothing.

You mean during the busiest period of the footballing calender? Having just played a game a few days before and with one in another couple of days he rested players?

This is all a total joke.

[den]

This is all a total joke.

It is Eddie if you consider it to be simply a bit of squad rotation.

[Eddie]

I don't, he was resting his team because he saw an important game on Sunday and thought that they were likely to lose no matter who he put out on Tuesday.

His plan worked.

[den]

I don't, he was resting his team because he saw an important game on Sunday and thought that they were likely to lose no matter who he put out on Tuesday.

Glad you came round to recognising that he gave up entirely on the game.

That's the whole point isn't it? Fans paying £42 a ticket expecting their team to try to win a game of football.

[Bobby G]

There is an ethical argument Den and thats different to the footballing one.

Im sure they will offer something in the future to those who traveled.

[thenodrog]

Glad you came round to recognising that he gave up entirely on the game.

That's the whole point isn't it? Fans paying £42 a ticket expecting their team to try to win a game of football.

How about the great KMD fielding a virtual reserve side in the Charity Shield?

[naperrover]

Think of it as a piece of business management by Mick McCarthy.

He is being paid to manage the assets of Wolverhampton Wanderers F.C. and the pre-eminent goal of that company is to maintain its solvency and increase its earnings potential by remaining in the PL. Not coincidentally, this is the same goal that is held by Wolves supporters.

McCarthy has looked at a fixture list that sees his club playing 6 games in 3 weeks, including the Jan 3 FA Cup fixture, a competition in which supporters will also likely wish to see their club compete.

In the slate of 5 PL fixtures, McCarthy sees one realistically winnable game, home to Burnley, only one other home fixture, vs Man City, and travel to Tottenham, Man U, and Liverpool. No one would be surprised to see Wolves take only three points from all five fixtures.

Wolves take the unlikely and precious 3 points off Spurs, which changes the outlook. McCarthy looks at a squad in which some players are carrying injuries, if only the niggling sort that all professional athletes accrue, and others are either fatigued or, if playing continually, will become more fatigued over the congested Christmas fixtures, which may affect their performance in the second half of the season. McCarthy preemptively rests all 10 outfield players, subsequently takes 3 points off Burnley, and effectively doubles the expected points goal from the Christmas fixtures, with 2 matches left to play. Wolves are guaranteed to be at least within 1 point of 20 points after the first half of their season. He is now free to take a stronger squad to face a Liverpool team in disarray, and be prepared to face a Man City squad that has its own issues.

At the end of the day, McCarthy has managed his assets in a way that provides WWFC the best chance of PL survival and has reacted to an adverse business condition, in which the congested fixture list has put his club at a decided disadvantage to bigger spending clubs with the ability to attract better squad rotation players.

Is it great sport? No, but if, at the end of May, Wolves have achieved PL survival, he will be lauded by the supporters and will have significantly improved the business position of WWFC.

[den]

Think of it as a piece of business management by Mick McCarthy.

He is being paid to manage the assets of Wolverhampton Wanderers F.C. and the pre-eminent goal of that company is to maintain its solvency and increase its earnings potential by remaining in the PL. Not coincidentally, this is the same goal that is held by Wolves supporters.

McCarthy has looked at a fixture list that sees his club playing 6 games in 3 weeks, including the Jan 3 FA Cup fixture, a competition in which supporters will also likely wish to see their club compete.

In the slate of 5 PL fixtures, McCarthy sees one realistically winnable game, home to Burnley, only one other home fixture, vs Man City, and travel to Tottenham, Man U, and Liverpool. No one would be surprised to see Wolves take only three points from all five fixtures.

Wolves take the unlikely and precious 3 points off Spurs, which changes the outlook. McCarthy looks at a squad in which some players are carrying injuries, if only the niggling sort that all professional athletes accrue, and others are either fatigued or, if playing continually, will become more fatigued over the congested Christmas fixtures, which may affect their performance in the second half of the season. McCarthy preemptively rests all 10 outfield players, subsequently takes 3 points off Burnley, and effectively doubles the expected points goal from the Christmas fixtures, with 2 matches left to play. Wolves are guaranteed to be at least within 1 point of 20 points after the first half of their season. He is now free to take a stronger squad to face a Liverpool team in disarray, and be prepared to face a Man City squad that has its own issues.

At the end of the day, McCarthy has managed his assets in a way that provides WWFC the best chance of PL survival and has reacted to an adverse business condition, in which the congested fixture list has put his club at a decided disadvantage to bigger spending clubs with the ability to attract better squad rotation players.

Is it great sport? No, but if, at the end of May, Wolves have achieved PL survival, he will be lauded by the supporters and will have significantly improved the business position of WWFC.

I know why he's done it.

Rovers fans wouldn't like it, as the Wolves fans who shelled out all that money don't like either.

[Eddie]

Glad you came round to recognising that he gave up entirely on the game.

That's the whole point isn't it? Fans paying £42 a ticket expecting their team to try to win a game of football.

I never denied that he did, my point was that he did so in the interest of the club. All along I have said that if the fans who attended, or any Wolves fans for that matter, want to complain about him then they can, but it's none of our business. It isn't for the league to investigate, it isn't for other clubs' fans to moan about. He manages his side, if he doesn't do it well then he will lose his job. Those should be the rules.

[den]

How about the great KMD fielding a virtual reserve side in the Charity Shield?

How about it?

What has that got to do with whether the PL should allow clubs do what McCarthy has just done? - Nothing Gord.

I never denied that he did, my point was that he did so in the interest of the club. All along I have said that if the fans who attended, or any Wolves fans for that matter, want to complain about him then they can, but it's none of our business. It isn't for the league to investigate, it isn't for other clubs' fans to moan about. He manages his side, if he doesn't do it well then he will lose his job. Those should be the rules.

Of course it's our business. It's our business if the PL find Wolves not guilty of any wrongdoing, then Allardyce starts to pick winnable games and doesn't give a stuff about others. I guess you would be happy with that Eddie, but thousands wouldn't.

How can football fans go along with a club not contesting a league game?

[LeChuck]

It isn't for the league to investigate, it isn't for other clubs' fans to moan about. He manages his side, if he doesn't do it well then he will lose his job. Those should be the rules.

Stop presenting your opinion as fact Eddie.

The Premier League DOES have a rule in place to try and prevent clubs doing things like this, if they choose to try and exercise this rule then they are completely justified in doing so.

[philipl]

The PL have either to hit Wolves or scrap the relevant rule about fielding the strongest side.

I think they are leaning towards hitting Wolves after the second set of 9 changes. If Wolves had played the Manc XI against Burnley, there would have been no issue- nobody has suggested that XI were tired, emotional or unfit....

[Stuart]

How about it?

What has that got to do with whether the PL should allow clubs do what McCarthy has just done? - Nothing Gord.

I forget now. Was the Charity Shield a free ticket event?

[cn174]

I forget now. Was the Charity Shield a free ticket event?

Surely it wasn't, wouldn't make much money for charity if it was free ?

[Eddie]

How about it?

What has that got to do with whether the PL should allow clubs do what McCarthy has just done? - Nothing Gord.

Of course it's our business. It's our business if the PL find Wolves not guilty of any wrongdoing, then Allardyce starts to pick winnable games and doesn't give a stuff about others. I guess you would be happy with that Eddie, but thousands wouldn't.

How can football fans go along with a club not contesting a league game?

I've already said I would complain had it been Allardyce, but I would complain as a Blackburn supporter, not because of the league. Just last season we changed line-ups and strategy for games against the big sides, with Allardyce all but saying that he was focusing on upcoming fixtures rather than this one. In the end we stayed up and he did his job, but had we gone down then serious questions could have been asked about that particular tactic.

The players who went out there tried their best, they did compete. The simple fact of the matter is that even if Wolves had played their first team they most likely would have lost and probably lost by a similar scoreline. We don't know, we'll never know, but based on what usually happens at Old Trafford it's a fairly safe assumption.

We just need something else to pop up and the world will forget about this one and get their knickers in a twist about something new. November was Henry. December McCarthy. Shall we make predictions for January?

Stop presenting your opinion as fact Eddie.

The Premier League DOES have a rule in place to try and prevent clubs doing things like this, if they choose to try and exercise this rule then they are completely justified in doing so.

I think it should be taken as a given that anything I say is my opinion, if I want to use facts to back it up I'll bring them in (hence my usage of the word SHOULD).

[den]

I've already said I would complain had it been Allardyce, but I would complain as a Blackburn supporter, not because of the league. Just last season we changed line-ups and strategy for games against the big sides, with Allardyce all but saying that he was focusing on upcoming fixtures rather than this one. In the end we stayed up and he did his job, but had we gone down then serious questions could have been asked about that particular tactic.

The players who went out there tried their best, they did compete. The simple fact of the matter is that even if Wolves had played their first team they most likely would have lost and probably lost by a similar scoreline. We don't know, we'll never know, but based on what usually happens at Old Trafford it's a fairly safe assumption.

As for the bit in bold, I just don't get this sod 'em 'cos it's Wolves thing. What kind of principle is that you work on? You either think there should be no rule in place, or you think there should.

Changing line ups and strategy happens every single week Eddie. Hardly what's being talked about here.

[Eddie]

I don't believe that there should be a rule, I think that is shown by the fact that I think the manager should be accountable to the club, not to the league, that is unless it's shown that there was shown to be some form of collusion.

[S15]

There can't be a rule. What would the rule be?

[cletus]

I read somewhere that Wolves had got 9pts out of the last 12pts available.

How many Rovers fans would go for a 9pt haul over the festive period, if it meant playing a weakened side for one away game?

I`m not defending McCarthy, but in hindsight it`s looking like he got away with it. If anything, he should`ve pre-warned Wolves fans so they could`ve opted not to purchase tickets for the Man Ure game. They feel like they`ve been duped & rightly so.

[Eddie]

There can't be a rule. What would the rule be?

Sorry?

I read somewhere that Wolves had got 9pts out of the last 12pts available.

How many Rovers fans would go for a 9pt haul over the festive period, if it meant playing a weakened side for one away game?

I`m not defending McCarthy, but in hindsight it`s looking like he got away with it. If anything, he should`ve pre-warned Wolves fans so they could`ve opted not to purchase tickets for the Man Ure game. They feel like they`ve been duped & rightly so.

I agree with you. It would have been nice to have seen them all given a refund, but to be honest all this talk of launching an investigation probably didn't help; they may have thought that offering a refund would be some sort of admission of guilt and make it even easier for the Premier League Board to hand out a punishment.

[thenodrog]

I know why he's done it.

Rovers fans wouldn't like it, as the Wolves fans who shelled out all that money don't like either.

I dunno I'm sure that 6 points from the 9 on offer including away games at WHL and OT would ease their ire somewhat.

How about it?

What has that got to do with whether the PL should allow clubs do what McCarthy has just done? - Nothing Gord.

Quote Den...That's the whole point isn't it? Fans paying £42 a ticket expecting their team to try to win a game of football.

What has that got to do with it??? I paid a damned site more than that that weekend in London I can tell you. Money is money.