[Archived] Fitness Of The Modern Day Players.

[ABBEY]

I was listening to talksprout and five dead on the motorway yesterday(mainly for traffic news) and one of the jocks on 5 and then goughie ,durham and collymore were all on the same subject.It was 99% aimed at wolves for their disgraceful selection against man u. The five chap and goughie said they did right as they was "tired " from saturdays game and collymore of all people said they are soft pampered wussies(rich from him i know).

After the arguments on here over the last few weeks or so i am wondering why they cant play all the matches in a season without being tired.I am presuming the training they do is advanced from 30 years ago,im presuming their lifestyles are better ,they have diet coaches ,fitness coaches ,dieticians,pyscologists etc....

So how come in years gone by the players played for eg xmas /easter on consective days or fa cup replays arranged for two days following. liverpool teams of the past when they were winning things never changed the team about they kept the same players in and there was only one sub none oof this 60 players on the bench we have now .Sunday /sat amateur players will do a days graft and play in the evening ,spring time 3 or 4 games have been known.

so either technology and the modern way isnt too good ie.old fashioned fitness levels better.( i dont think theres as much physical stuff in games these days so thats not an argument ,when you look at the bone crunching tackles of days gone by. or they really are overpaid soft arsed lazy fellas.

oooops missed the wolves thread sorry.

[CrazyIvan]

I don't know but I suspect that it has a lot to do with Sports Science and the way the players performances are measured these days compared to 5 or 10 years ago. I would imagine that there is a significant drop in performance by players who have played too often and they also have a higher risk of injury.

I can understand the idea of resting a player, or a bunch of them, for a fixture if you know you are going to be playing a lot of games in a short period of time as happens over Christmas. I don't think it should be done on the scale of Wolves and McCarthy though...

[broadsword]

The game is faster now, and more intense.

However, there should be no need to rest a player every other game, or something along those lines. Yes, a tired player is more likely to get injured. But in my view the answer to that is to improve recovery and restoration, not to decrease the frequency that they play.

I wonder how many players really do look after themselves outside of the confines of the club, getting adequate sleep, eating the right foods, resting properly, not drinking or smoking.

If the players are doing everything right in terms of recovering from a game, then their work capacity should be worked on over the close season. I think you'd struggle to get outfield players now who are ever-present, but they should, if they are first choice, be playing a large percentage of the games. This "tiredness" frame of mind ... if you were to keep on down that road then training sessions would get lighter and lighter until they stayed in bed all week.

In short, I am leaning towards this tiredness stuff being a load of nonsense.

[thenodrog]

I was listening to talksprout and five dead on the motorway yesterday(mainly for traffic news) and one of the jocks on 5 and then goughie ,durham and collymore were all on the same subject.It was 99% aimed at wolves for their disgraceful selection against man u. The five chap and goughie said they did right as they was "tired " from saturdays game and collymore of all people said they are soft pampered wussies(rich from him i know).

Doubt tiredness came into it. More like McArthy was trying to avoid causing unecessary injuries to players in a match that he had already written off.

His attitude will live or die depending on the weekend result v Burnley.

[SamDingle]

Graham Alexander is 38, I've not heard him whinge yet. He played 60 games last year and has played every week this year, his performance never seems to vary < insert cheap shot here >. He does absolutely everything necessary to maintain his fitness and not so much dicking about in clubs.

Wenger is looking for excuses for being outplayed for the best part of an hour, McCarthy needs to grow a pair and stop having his belly tickled by the 'Big 4'. That's the long and short of it.

[Kelbo]

I was listening to talksprout and five dead on the motorway yesterday(mainly for traffic news) and one of the jocks on 5 and then goughie ,durham and collymore were all on the same subject.It was 99% aimed at wolves for their disgraceful selection against man u. The five chap and goughie said they did right as they was "tired " from saturdays game and collymore of all people said they are soft pampered wussies(rich from him i know).

After the arguments on here over the last few weeks or so i am wondering why they cant play all the matches in a season without being tired.I am presuming the training they do is advanced from 30 years ago,im presuming their lifestyles are better ,they have diet coaches ,fitness coaches ,dieticians,pyscologists etc....

So how come in years gone by the players played for eg xmas /easter on consective days or fa cup replays arranged for two days following. liverpool teams of the past when they were winning things never changed the team about they kept the same players in and there was only one sub none oof this 60 players on the bench we have now .Sunday /sat amateur players will do a days graft and play in the evening ,spring time 3 or 4 games have been known.

so either technology and the modern way isnt too good ie.old fashioned fitness levels better.( i dont think theres as much physical stuff in games these days so thats not an argument ,when you look at the bone crunching tackles of days gone by. or they really are overpaid soft arsed lazy fellas.

oooops missed the wolves thread sorry.

Years ago a coach would say 'let the ball do the work son' now the bloody ball stands still and players bomb around all over the place, for example, Stanley Matthews would have been unable to play top football at the age of 52!!

its now a very quick and demanding game and takes much more out of you physically than before, hence the recovery time is greater, thats my take on the siituation anyway.

[thenodrog]

Years ago a coach would say 'let the ball do the work son' now the bloody ball stands still and players bomb around all over the place, for example, Stanley Matthews would have been unable to play top football at the age of 52!!its now a very quick and demanding game and takes much more out of you physically than before, hence the recovery time is greater, thats my take on the siituation anyway.

I'm not sure Stan would have even played for a top 4 team. Dribbling skills and crossing ability are down the list below first touch, pace and two footed ability these days.

[bellamy11]

I would imagine that players are far fitter now than their predecessors. However, they will cover far more ground and, perhaps more importantly, it is easier to monitor any degeneration in performance. We moan about ticket prices and players being pampered bla bla bla but we're also being ripped off if players are only performing at 85%.

[thenodrog]

I would imagine that players are far fitter now than their predecessors. However, they will cover far more ground and, perhaps more importantly, it is easier to monitor any degeneration in performance. We moan about ticket prices and players being pampered bla bla bla but we're also being ripped off if players are only performing at 85%.

Thats always been the same.

[mckenny16]

There is also the mental fatigue that most people forget. I know from personal experience that if I play one game in a week, I feel sharp and react quicker when compared to if I have played three or four times in that week.

I know they don't play competitively three or four times a week, but it is a magnified example. Players can get mentally jaded from constantly playing.

[joey_big_nose]

Graham Alexander is 38, I've not heard him whinge yet. He played 60 games last year and has played every week this year, his performance never seems to vary < insert cheap shot here >. He does absolutely everything necessary to maintain his fitness and not so much dicking about in clubs.

Wenger is looking for excuses for being outplayed for the best part of an hour, McCarthy needs to grow a pair and stop having his belly tickled by the 'Big 4'. That's the long and short of it.

Fair point. It does depend where you play though and what sort of player you are. For example Nzonzi, Samba, Nelsen and Emerton all play every game regardless if they are not injured. Less fit players, or players who need to do more work in a game (usually strikers) are rotated. Is that not the same at Burnley? I am pretty sure you have rotate your strikers...

Anyhow McCarthy dropped his team becasue he saw it as a throwaway game. Sad but there is logic there.

[ABBEY]

There is also the mental fatigue that most people forget. I know from personal experience that if I play one game in a week, I feel sharp and react quicker when compared to if I have played three or four times in that week.

I know they don't play competitively three or four times a week, but it is a magnified example. Players can get mentally jaded from constantly playing.

brainwashed pal.

Graham Alexander is 38, I've not heard him whinge yet. He played 60 games last year and has played every week this year, his performance never seems to vary < FROM CRAP TO ######>. He does absolutely everything necessary to maintain his fitness and not so much dicking about in clubs.

Wenger is looking for excuses for being outplayed for the best part of an hour, McCarthy needs to grow a pair and stop having his belly tickled by the 'Big 4'. That's the long and short of it.

PROBLY THE BEST POST YOUVE POSTED MR DINGLE.

[bellamy11]

brainwashed pal.

But Abbs I'm sitting here at my desk on a Thursday afternoon and my head has absolutely gone. I'm doing nothing productive, and instead posting on a football messageboard. There's no way I'm analysing data at a Premier League level right now, and I'll be even worse tomorrow.

[den]

So how come in years gone by the players played for eg xmas /easter on consective days or fa cup replays arranged for two days following. liverpool teams of the past when they were winning things never changed the team about they kept the same players in and there was only one sub none oof this 60 players on the bench we have now .Sunday /sat amateur players will do a days graft and play in the evening ,spring time 3 or 4 games have been known.

so either technology and the modern way isnt too good ie.old fashioned fitness levels better.( i dont think theres as much physical stuff in games these days so thats not an argument ,when you look at the bone crunching tackles of days gone by. or they really are overpaid soft arsed lazy fellas.

Although the players of years gone by played more games in a season Abbey, they weren't anywhere near as fit as the modern footballer. 20 minutes from the end of a game you would see them gasping for air, unable to run any further and tiring. They had to stay on because there were no subs.

So it's not a great comparison really.

[Paul]

"If you ask any player, I was the same, games are the most important. They are the best way to keep fit. I think players just want to play" - Phil Brown, Hull City.

So how many times have you read / heard that or similar? Equally early season or after injury we are constantly told how the players need games to get match fit. Then we'lll be told the poor darlings are tired because they played too much football. Modern footballers have two aspects to their work, play games and train, it's not difficult and they are given every possible aid to achieve these ends. For most modern sportsmenkeeping fit should not be a problem, the real problem is the ones who throw away their careers and potential by not looking after their bodies correctly.

Truth is the managers are basically spouting whatever piece of rubbish suits their particular situation. Just another piece of Premier League PR nonsense. Most of these people have nothing of interest to say, as 99% of it has been said a million times over, so they just regurgitate the same old cr@p week after week.

[salothsar]

It's not so much that they are tired and need a little rest. It's more the fact that they just can't run as fast or as far if they have played 2 or 3 days before. The fitness levels these days are vastly superior to what they were 20 years ago but given the speed of the game these days the body (or most of them) will take a few days to get back to peak physical ability.

[RovertheHill]

Obviously it's a completely scientific and controlled point but years ago I seemed to remember that the footballers always did sh*t on Superstars. I think Kevin Keegan was the only one who ever did reasonably well

I suspect the whole fitness thing today is that they are measured and need to play at their absolute peak and so ANY drop off is instantly more noticeable than it was 30 years ago. But frankly it is nonsense - if required they could easily play every game

[Majiball]

There is no real reason why players shouldn't be able to play 3 in 7 with the right support all energy stores can be replenished within 24 hours. Naturally it will take about 48 hours but with some science it can be made much less. Players are much fitter than before and we understand much more about how the body functions and operates and so should be able to get more out of them.

[ABBEY]

Although the players of years gone by played more games in a season Abbey, they weren't anywhere near as fit as the modern footballer. 20 minutes from the end of a game you would see them gasping for air, unable to run any further and tiring. They had to stay on because there were no subs.

So it's not a great comparison really.

it is tho den,if they wernt as fit then they all wernt just asa if there fitter now they should all be fitter ,in thory. Also they wernt on thirty grand a week.Id go to work for a twelve hour shift and then play footy 7 days a week for that amount,hell id do that for thirty k a year, THEY SHOULD BE MADE TO EARN THEIR CORN NOT REST FOR A WEEK AFTER A GAME.(not aimed at you den )

[Majiball]

Even from the start of the premier league fitness levels have increased. Each year it gets more intense and you have to find new ways of getting them fitter, and able to cope with the other physical demands of the game.

Switch your google to Scholar and enter in football (sorry s.o.c.c.e.r. stupid spell checker), elite, performance, have look at some of the stats and you'll see the increases. Stole et al 2005 Physiology of s.o.c.c.e.r. should be a good start point for most.

[broadsword]

Each year it gets more intense and you have to find new ways of getting them fitter, and able to cope with the other physical demands of the game.

Just out of interest, what tools in particular are they using? Presumably they are doing cross-training as well as sports-specific fitness and skill work.

[Majiball]

Just out of interest, what tools in particular are they using? Presumably they are doing cross-training as well as sports-specific fitness and skill work.

Sorry Bryan just so I don't write a long post and get the wrong end of the stick, what do you mean by tools? Equipment and the like or training techniques?

[broadsword]

Equipment rather than modalities.

[Majiball]

Equipment wise its probably quite limited if I'm being honest. There's the Gym (two) kitted out with plenty of fixed weights and free weights, ergonometers, treadmills, over-speed treadmill. Pool probably mainly for rehab work, but these days modality is the key rather than equipment. Rovers don't have a great selection of kit and I'm sure Howard is getting as many new bits as the budget allows. But this is the issue at rovers all the money goes on players wages.

If your looking to do cross training work IE increasing VO2max then the best way for football is small sided games played with limitations (pitch size and players) add in intervals and you will see serious increases in 8-10 weeks and before. This is the key where fitness is concerned, combinations of different trainings, time of training, and making it related to football, modality.

Strength training for example most would send them to the gym, I'd do something very different on top of the gym though (equipment, medicine balls, free weights, hoops, discs, cones, balls).

Flexibility work (mainly done only with your own body), recovery work(I know rovers do bike work, steady, slow pace, continous exercise), speed work and the such would all be mainly done with the body only and only some equip like bungee ropes, weighted vests, hurdles for speed work maybe parachutes?

Testing wise, jump mats, electronic speed gates, agility tests, and the such will most likely be done and say yo-yo tests for fitness levels (VO2max testing requires a lab, rovers don't have one, they should!!!!) But really not as much as you would think most testing can be done with very little equipment (however this mode of testing is nowhere near as accurate as a lab test). Perhaps GPS tacking system for training games, pro-zone and the such at the training ground.

You can do most of the work you need to with little equipment, a gym is the main one. Which is a good thing really because Brockhall doesn't have loads of equipment and really could do with more.

I hope thats what you where after Bryan if not I'll try again.

[broadsword]

No, that's great mate, was genuinely curious as to what they used.

Ta.