[Archived] The Good, The Bad & The Ugly Of Wigan Away

[RibbleValleyRover]

People always seem to dwell on the negative side of things. Looking from an optimistic point of view today's result is a darn site better than the humiliation we suffered at Wigan just over 12 months ago which ended Ince's tenture.

More like realistic rather than pessimistic. We were dire, Wigan were by far the better team and if they could have finished more of their chances we would have been hammered.

Hughesy and the like will spin this all they want but the truth is we are a very, very poor side. Looks like another season of hoping that there are three sides worse than us come the end of the season.

[jonv]

I think there has to be a higher degree of common sense on this board. Dont scream that Allardyce is inept and that the team he picked was terrible without saying what you would have done differently. Please pick a different team for this afternoon's game and i assure you that i will find 4/5/6 flaws in it.

Look at what he's got to deal with. Its not like he's got Santa Cruz/Bentley/Bellamy on the bench is it. Injuries to big players (Dunn/Emerton) were always going to hit us harder then most teams and so its proven.

We were poor today but thats down more to the calibre of player we have, then the management. Hughes took massive gambles in the transfer market on players who hadnt proven themselves at the top level, and most if not all of them came off (Nelsen, Bentley, Santa, Benni, Samba) - Sam has taken similar gambles with Di Santo/Kalinic/Salgado and they're not quite making as much of an impact as we had hoped, is that Sam's fault or are we just being overly critical considering how well Hughes did??

Today was a miserable game but i personally couldnt have named another 11 which would have stood a better chance of winning the match. Which is why i dont think simply blaming the manager is the right way to react

Also: Andrews was bad today. But who else could have played in CM? Grella/Emerton/Dunn are all injured which only leaves Andrews. Do you shove Diouf in there? Pedersen? No. He was (regrettably) the only real option. Again, thats not really Sam's fault. Id have played him too.

exactly.

unfortunately it isn't pretty at the moment but a point is a point . away from home im content and so we march on.. some absolute nonsense has been posted on here, nonsense that does nothing but drag rovers down

[Gav]

So glad I didn't go

[Dan]

Can you try not to be so immature? You sound stupid.

..... Anyway Allardyce is not fat, he's just a big bloke joke.

Why sam? Can you explain your thoughts?

Corrected ;-)

Playing Andrews in the centre is a bad choice, a youngster or even playing Salgado there would be an improvement, picking him IS the managers fault. It's not like he is able to have an average match. He gives the ball away so much and commits so many stupid tackles when the opposition player has taken the ###### out of him. I remember quite a few times him putting us into a difficult situation and Wigan attacking. Salgado on the right wing is also a joke, surely Sam can see this?! Why not put Junior on the right and then either bring some kid through to make up the numbers or play Pedersen there, I know he isn't great these days, but he can defend and has the potential to do something decent every once in a while. Bringing on Roberts is also a complete waste of time. These things are the managers choices and it's one of the reasons we are ######. His tactics are also questionable.

[Exiled_Rover]

When the ball goes forward in the opposition's half? I haven't a clue. We had two chances, Benni scored from one and Kirkland saved his overhead kick, that was it.

Samba had one cleared off the line, N'Zonzi and Andrews both fired wide from inside the area, Andrews also blocked a Hoillet shot that looked destined to hit the back of the net and McCarthy missed two from outside the area. Having said that the football was dire and I was glad to pick up a point. If we don't strengthen that midfield in January we're in for a long hard relegation fight. Dunn and Grella are good enough to keep us up (alongside the ever impressive N'Zonzi), but they can't be relied upon to stay fit.

[American]

The BBC say it was a bit of a cracker.

Did any of the moaning minis actually watch it?

Actually, I was there and it was utterly dreadful - a sentiment shared by all those around us.

Watching QPR on the TV a couple weeks back, they have a better midfield than the one we put out today (and they aren't a top Championship club). Salgado was getting a lot of credit from those posting during the match, but as a right midfielder, he was playing WAY too narrow, even though they were leaving huge holes on the right for him to attack from (which he didn't). Melchiot figured out Hoilett within about 20 minutes and shut him down the rest of the match. As for Nzonzi and Andrews, they definitely shouldn't be playing together.

Benni was played too much in a midfield role, and DiSanto didn't put out much of an effort, but even had he won some of the battles, there was no one to pick up the pieces.

Mostly the defence played well, but I missed the goal waiting on line for a pie, which were sold out by the time I got to the front of the line!!

(Did hear an interesting story from one of the stewards: He said that they had extra security in today because last year a Rovers fan bought a hot chocolate and went to a different queue, then poured it all over the staff and the pies.)

[Dan]

One mindbender was Gamst playing on the right with Hoilett still on his unfavoured left? Surely they should have swapped?

Although I did read somewhere that Sam encourages wingers to cut onto their stronger foot.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

[American]

I think there has to be a higher degree of common sense on this board. Dont scream that Allardyce is inept and that the team he picked was terrible without saying what you would have done differently. Please pick a different team for this afternoon's game and i assure you that i will find 4/5/6 flaws in it.

Look at what he's got to deal with. Its not like he's got Santa Cruz/Bentley/Bellamy on the bench is it. Injuries to big players (Dunn/Emerton) were always going to hit us harder then most teams and so its proven.

We were poor today but thats down more to the calibre of player we have, then the management. Hughes took massive gambles in the transfer market on players who hadnt proven themselves at the top level, and most if not all of them came off (Nelsen, Bentley, Santa, Benni, Samba) - Sam has taken similar gambles with Di Santo/Kalinic/Salgado and they're not quite making as much of an impact as we had hoped, is that Sam's fault or are we just being overly critical considering how well Hughes did??

Today was a miserable game but i personally couldnt have named another 11 which would have stood a better chance of winning the match. Which is why i dont think simply blaming the manager is the right way to react

Also: Andrews was bad today. But who else could have played in CM? Grella/Emerton/Dunn are all injured which only leaves Andrews. Do you shove Diouf in there? Pedersen? No. He was (regrettably) the only real option. Again, thats not really Sam's fault. Id have played him too.

Aslo, agree with this post 100%, except you can blame Sam for not having bought another CM in the summer and bringing in 3 RBs instead.

[47er]

Same around me especially when Salgado, who I thought was one of our better performers, was subbed by MGP and at the end when there was a lot of booing. Many who didn't boo were very silent.

We saw a different game there then. I thought Salgado struggled with the pace of the game all day and I'm convinced his legs have gone. The booing was for Pedersen maybe?

[Kelbo]

There are two positives for me here, Benni must play upfront, he is a box player and a world class box player too, his finish was clinical, we have no other player in the team who can finish like that, secondly I can see Hoilett improving by the game and he will be a major asset in the weeks to come!!

I didnt think we were too bad first half and could have been two or three up, the NZonzi effort from the best move of the match!!

Wigan in the second half targeted our right hand side as Selgado was unable to get back quickly enough when Chimbonda pushed forward, all their play came from that side, Jacobsen came on and being more defensive minded, shored up that side.

Second half we were poor but I didnt think first half we were bad at all!!

I will not mention Andrews as I have said enough, except totally inept!!

[47er]

Couldn't believe my ears on the way home listening to Sam saying that we played well enough to win

On Rovers site he is blaming 'lady luck' - that isn't a good sign!!

It would be interesting to know what constitutes 'a chance' because to me we seem to be the least threatening attacking team I've ever seen. I don't like to rely on stats much, but according to the guardian we had 1 other shot on target which was the Benni overhead kick. Hardly peppering their goal were we?

No we were not peppering the goal (neither were they) but that splendid attempt from Benni would have gone in 99 times out of a hundred. So in that sense we were unlucky.

[grizfoot]

Aslo, agree with this post 100%, except you can blame Sam for not having bought another CM in the summer and bringing in 3 RBs instead.

Two of thoose right-backs were free transfers in Jacobson and Salgado. Chimbonda was bought with the money received form Warnock and can play anywhere along the back-line. The only questionable decision in that is bringing in Salgado and adding to the wage bill, was obviously a bit of gamble and in the past Big Sam's managed to get a few good extra seasons out of players past their best unfornatley for us it seems that Salgado isn't going to be one of them.

Jacobson is a steady right-back and played well at the beginning of the season but since than as been in out of the team since the arrival of Chimbonda. The arrival of which Big Sam didn't have the money to fund until Warnock was sold which wasn't until after both Jacobosn and Salgado had been signed. Don't know if the intention was to play Chimbonda has a direct replacement for at LB but in recent games he's been back in his favourable RB position.

In my opinion our defense is our strongest part of the team, that's despite the relatively big number in our goal against column.

As for the central midfield issue at the beginning of the season we had Dunn, Grella, Emerton, Andrews, Reid and Nzonzi who are all capable of playing in the centre. Someone obviously didn't tell Big Sam that three out of thoose are injury-prone. mSix central-midfielders in theory is a good amount of central midfielders to choose from, but Big Sam somewhat had his hands tied having a number of players coming back from injury, with them not being a feasible option to raise funds to re-invest in the central midfield area.

[patrickvalery]

Corrected ;-)

Playing Andrews in the centre is a bad choice, a youngster or even playing Salgado there would be an improvement, picking him IS the managers fault. It's not like he is able to have an average match. He gives the ball away so much and commits so many stupid tackles when the opposition player has taken the ###### out of him. I remember quite a few times him putting us into a difficult situation and Wigan attacking. Salgado on the right wing is also a joke, surely Sam can see this?! Why not put Junior on the right and then either bring some kid through to make up the numbers or play Pedersen there, I know he isn't great these days, but he can defend and has the potential to do something decent every once in a while. Bringing on Roberts is also a complete waste of time. These things are the managers choices and it's one of the reasons we are ######. His tactics are also questionable.

Come on Dan. This is all very harsh and distinctly unfair.

We had to play Andrews. We only had two center midfielders fit. Yes he is poor, but its not news to anyone. As for the above highlighted statement, well thats hardly a well thought out calculated answer to the problem.

[Hughesy]

Andrews - Not good enough

Givet - Not a good option against pace

Salgado - Worked hard, but not a right winger

Hoilett - Need to try him on the right wing, rather than left

Benni - Different class today - took his goal and was very unlucky not to get a 2nd.

Wigan work very hard and are a very physical side - 1 point away isnt a bad result to be honest. Ask Chelsea!

[Exiled_Rover]

Been said before but if you have a midfield as abysmal as us you can't expect good football. Gomez strolled through our midfield at will and he's hardly a Fabregas. Until we get the non entity that is Andrews out of the side it will always be the same I'm afraid - he's so far out his depth I feel genuinely sorry for him.

One more thing, don't believe the spin from Allardyce post match. We created precious little and the opportunities we did have were balls in and around the danger area rather than well crafted chances - I can't believe he thinks we played well and created enough to win it. It was bloody poor and there was also quite a bit of audible discontent at the end as well with quite a few boos in and around where I was sat.

That's what I saw from the erm....North Stand? It all looks the same and I have a season ticket for the Warriors! Terrible stadium. Speaking of which has anyone brought up the ludicrous condition the offical car park was in? It was sheet ice - is grit too much effort, Mr Whelan?

As for the game, well as LD correctly points out our midfield is atrocious. N'Zonzi is going to be a very good player, but he's being asked to do the work of two men and it's far too much for his young shoulders. Salgado I thought had a decent game, but he doesn't have the legs to get up and down the wing. With his range of passing I wouldn't be surprised if he finds himself in a more central role should Grella/Dunn not return from injury sharpish. Hoillet on the left wing was thoroughly marked out of the game by Melchiott - he had several opportunities to run at the Wigan defence, but he didn't fancy his chances against the Dutchman and laid if off instead. He's going to be a good player, but I'll be surprised if it's out wide. As for Andrews......need I say anything?

If we look at the side objectively we have a decent enough keeper - I'd love to improve on him as he has his flaws, but he's not a liability.

The defence is excellent defence by everyone but the top 4's standards (and even then it's not too shabby). The forward line COULD be moulded into an effective unit, though I'm including Hoillet in that group as I feel he's a second striker rather than a winger (he just happens to be fast enough to play on the wing). The best partnership for mine would be Di Santo and Kalinic - they're both big, strong(ish), quick (ish) and quite cute in their movement. When they have played together they've done well. McCarthy is useful as a second half substitute to focus the attack around. Similarly Hoillet would be useful to bring on from the bench against tiring legs. Roberts can f' off, naturally.

Granted, the forward play is stunted hugely by the midfield which, quite frankly, is atrocious. If we play N'Zonzi and Grella together we just about managed to cobble a decent defensive screen together, though they limit our attacking options. Out wide however, there is absolutely nothing out wide on either flank - Salgado, Pedersen, Diouf all offer very little going forward. Dunn needs to stay fit to provide that creative spark that only he and McCarthy (when he can be arsed) can inspire.

Judging by the last four performances, if we don't improve the midfield in the January transfer window we're in for a long hard season.

[Waggy76]

I think there has to be a higher degree of common sense on this board. Dont scream that Allardyce is inept and that the team he picked was terrible without saying what you would have done differently. Please pick a different team for this afternoon's game and i assure you that i will find 4/5/6 flaws in it.

Look at what he's got to deal with. Its not like he's got Santa Cruz/Bentley/Bellamy on the bench is it. Injuries to big players (Dunn/Emerton) were always going to hit us harder then most teams and so its proven.

We were poor today but thats down more to the calibre of player we have, then the management. Hughes took massive gambles in the transfer market on players who hadnt proven themselves at the top level, and most if not all of them came off (Nelsen, Bentley, Santa, Benni, Samba) - Sam has taken similar gambles with Di Santo/Kalinic/Salgado and they're not quite making as much of an impact as we had hoped, is that Sam's fault or are we just being overly critical considering how well Hughes did??

Today was a miserable game but i personally couldnt have named another 11 which would have stood a better chance of winning the match. Which is why i dont think simply blaming the manager is the right way to react

Also: Andrews was bad today. But who else could have played in CM? Grella/Emerton/Dunn are all injured which only leaves Andrews. Do you shove Diouf in there? Pedersen? No. He was (regrettably) the only real option. Again, thats not really Sam's fault. Id have played him too.

I think that Pedersen can play midfield better than the Milton Keynes donkey !!

[47er]

Thendrog: pick another team.

Unlike Allardyce I wouldn't have this squad. To many are crap. I'd be picking from a squad of Nzonzis Nelsens Bellamys Santa Cruzs Dunns Sambas.

9 would start plus Kalinic and one other. You might have well as have had Doran than Selgado. van Heerden? Jacobson. Ollson is ten thousand times the player Andrews or Selgado are. What makes fans angry is it so obvious. Lets be honest, Givet, good player he is offers no attacking options.

You pick your best 11 and mould the tactics around them. Stupid thick managers like Allardyce will pick any crap player so long as it fits their fantasy tactics.

Benni played well today and is suited to playing at the top of a diamond BTW

Allardyce good riddance you are and alway will be totally useless because you do not understand the game.

Well you're not improving.If you wouldn't have this squad what would you do with them? Give them away? How would you replace them? Suppose they insist on staying as their contracts allow? How would you have persuaded Bellamy and Santa to stay? Is Olsen as good as you suggest? How would you pick Dunn if he isn't fit? Sam doesn't understand the game but you do?

Finally are you just winding us up or are you truly and utterly thick?

[Waggy76]

Two poor teams. Martinez was a more inept manager the BFS as they could have won the game if he hadn't played 5 at the back and 2 wide men.

Rovers are now a team if two halves. An awful one and a good one. I cannot ever remember under Hughes picking inept players regularly. With Hughes poor players were discarded and that is why BFS should be sacked he coundn't tell the differene between a sack of King Edwards and smart pric cheap boilers. Useless manager.

John Coleman would have the sense not to pick Selgado, Roberts, Pederson, Andrews. Add Diouf who thankfully looks like he has been discarded. These 5 are so awful they'd get relegated from any division.

Then there's the giants who are good enough take Rovers back into to Europe. robbo, Dunn Samba, Givet, Nelsen, Chimbonda, Di Santo, nzonzi, Emerton and on todays performance McCarthy. We have 6 or 7 really good players. Thrown in an improving Kalinic and maybe Hoilet and the manager has a team that can push the rubbish at the top like Spuds and Villa.

You did not need to go today. It was exactly the same as what has been served up in recent weeks.

7 Robbo one world class save

8 Chimbonda everywhere, some great last minute tackles

6 Givet solid

6 Nelsen solid

8 Samba everywhere not a foot wrong contributed pushing forward

2 Selgado biggest pile of sh1t at the club or maybe not see next

1 Andrews I'm not an Andrews hater but this was beyond attrocious.

8 Nzonzi Played on his own in midfiled. Clearly got fed up if his colleagues towards the end

6 Hoilet best game so far. Bright moments and ran at defenders. Failed to track back sometimes, sh1t out of tackles.

7 benni everywhere made a lot happen, scored.

6 Di Santo worked his socks off dent happen today

subs

6 jacobson solid

2 pederson woeful

2 Roberts woeful

I was there , how you can give Pedersen and Roberts 2 is beyond me !!! Andrewsv I agree with , play someone out of the youth team >

Salgado , played as well as Diouf as done away from home ..He got stuck in , his legs have gone , cant deny that ...I thought Hoilet was poor ,but footy is a game of opinions .

I am not setting foot in Ewood Park again until our excuse of a manager has left our club...He is destroying us.

EDIT,

if anyone wants a cheap season ticket PM me

Without Sam Allardyce , you would be watching championship football now !!! Who do you want as manager Paul Ince ???

[thenodrog]

One mindbender was Gamst playing on the right with Hoilett still on his unfavoured left? Surely they should have swapped?

Although I did read somewhere that Sam encourages wingers to cut onto their stronger foot.

Against Spurs bringing Ped on the left and switching Hoilett saw Hoilett go right out of the game.

[JAL]

With a midfield like that todays its got to be a point gained rather than two lost for Rovers.

As imy9 points out, there were a lot of square pegs in round holes today so not everybody should be despondent.

First time ive seen Wigan live and you have to say they play football the right way. At times briefly they had a swagger to their play that their goal was always inevitable though our back four coped well with their threats for most of the game bar one.

N'Zogbia showed some lovely skill in the first half to torment the Frenchmen whom eventually was correctly cautioned. But in the second hald did NZogbia play on the left flank second half when Givet Rovers left back was only one poor challenge away from being sent off.

Thankfully Franco Di Santo is a young kid who ran and ran for little reward from some attrocious forward passes. If he was a sesoned pro i'm sure he'd be arguing with his team mates about the poor quality service into him.

Thought Benni MaCarthy showed a true willingness for the team which was positive to see.

Disagree with the posters criticising Pedersen and Roberts, even though they did little, they did improve the team ever so slightly.

[Seedstral]

I am not setting foot in Ewood Park again until our excuse of a manager has left our club...He is destroying us.

EDIT,

if anyone wants a cheap season ticket PM me

Cheerio then!!

[cn174]

Once again Chimbonda turned his back on the incoming cross for their goal

[American]

Two of thoose right-backs were free transfers in Jacobson and Salgado. Chimbonda was bought with the money received form Warnock and can play anywhere along the back-line. The only questionable decision in that is bringing in Salgado and adding to the wage bill, was obviously a bit of gamble and in the past Big Sam's managed to get a few good extra seasons out of players past their best unfornatley for us it seems that Salgado isn't going to be one of them.

Jacobson is a steady right-back and played well at the beginning of the season but since than as been in out of the team since the arrival of Chimbonda. The arrival of which Big Sam didn't have the money to fund until Warnock was sold which wasn't until after both Jacobosn and Salgado had been signed. Don't know if the intention was to play Chimbonda has a direct replacement for at LB but in recent games he's been back in his favourable RB position.

In my opinion our defense is our strongest part of the team, that's despite the relatively big number in our goal against column.

As for the central midfield issue at the beginning of the season we had Dunn, Grella, Emerton, Andrews, Reid and Nzonzi who are all capable of playing in the centre. Someone obviously didn't tell Big Sam that three out of thoose are injury-prone. mSix central-midfielders in theory is a good amount of central midfielders to choose from, but Big Sam somewhat had his hands tied having a number of players coming back from injury, with them not being a feasible option to raise funds to re-invest in the central midfield area.

Salgado was far from free. His high wages when we already had Jacobson and Emerton were what caused us to sell Warnock and bring in Chimbonda to replace him at left back (replace a left footer with a right footer at left back, hmmmm). We'd be better off with just Warnock instead of the other 2. Not only does he play left back instead of Chimbonda, but he could have started at CM today instead of Andrews.

He knew that Emerton was coming back from injury and it's pretty obvious he doesn't much rate Reid (plus the obvious of a. when is the last time Dunn played a full season and b. even when he does play, we need a third CM to play with him, anyhow).

[thenodrog]

Surely you have answered your own question? Hughes took big gambles and they paid off, Allardyce has taken similar gambles and they have yet to succeed. Logic suggests then that Allardyce made the wrong choices and Sparky the right ones - that's called management.

Some might say it's down to Lady Luck cos in case you missed it Mark Hughes was sacked last week and is no longer in management.

Playing Devils advocate but whilst targets were apparently not met bad signings were also cited..... Lescott, Bridge, De Jong and RSC being much criticised.

When the ball goes forward in the opposition's half? I haven't a clue. We had two chances, Benni scored from one and Kirkland saved his overhead kick, that was it.

What about Andrews blinding block from Hoilett?

[grizfoot]

Salgado was far from free. His high wages when we already had Jacobson and Emerton were what caused us to sell Warnock and bring in Chimbonda to replace him at left back (replace a left footer with a right footer at left back, hmmmm). We'd be better off with just Warnock instead of the other 2. Not only does he play left back instead of Chimbonda, but he could have started at CM today instead of Andrews.

He knew that Emerton was coming back from injury and it's pretty obvious he doesn't much rate Reid (plus the obvious of a. when is the last time Dunn played a full season and b. even when he does play, we need a third CM to play with him, anyhow).

All fair points, I think Warnock had his heart set on leaving though and it's hard to stop a player from doing so when they have. I would argree that Warnock would be an improvement on our current central midfield and that Emerton is a very good right-back, but again he's had a few set-backs since coming back from injury and Jacobson who had injury problems at Everton and was relatively untested at Premiership level, leaving a squad with just thoose two for the right-back slot would have been a risky move in my opinion. That being said we do have one RB too many at present and lack depth in central midfield due to injury. But I'm sure if Salgado had impressed more than he has done he'd be our first choice right-back and Chimbonda would be at left-back, but unfornatley it never worked out like that.