[Archived] Hoof Ball! Fact Or Fiction?

[thenodrog]

Say things often enough and people will believe it and repeat it whether it's fact or fiction! Is this happening at BRFC now?

Nearly every football topic on here the term 'hoof ball' or 'long ball' is repeated ad infinitum. It's spreading like wildfire amongst our supporters but over a couple of scoops in the local last night a few of us discussed this allegation. Anyway the general concensus of opinion when people thought long and hard is that in general we are not playing long ball football in open play any more than when Hughes was in charge!

The main points discussed were.....

1. Bentley as an out obviously made a difference for a season or so but he's gone, thats that, no good crying over spilled milk etc, and now the big difference is in one player... Paul Robinson. Brad could barely reach the halfway line with bis kicks whilst Robbo has to pull back from hitting it straight to the opposing keeper. He seems to be able to hit any area on the pitch from free kicks too. I'm in no doubt that if Brad had Robinsons kicking ability he would have used it just the same.

2. The hoof ball situation was also increased when through desperation last season we threw Samba up top where it made sense to use his height and physical strength. Basically we Wimbledon'd our path to survival. Not many objections this side of Rishton at the time either.

3. We now use the long throw much more (except when we want to score like on Mon ) because we have Samba, N'Zonzi and Di Santo all between 6'3" and 6'6" which like it or not does give us an advantage from this tactic..... albeit an advantage that doesn't seem very tangible to us after the past half season.

BUT in open play we came to agree that there is actually little difference in playing style from the hughes era and especially now that Dunny's talent is off the selection agenda. The big difference being that for the second time since our last promotion we have seen our 'crown jewels' leave for greener pastures. Obviously Tugay's retirement left a huge gap that imo is virtually impossible to fill but the losses of RSC, Warnock and Bentley (and injury to Bert too) left a huge gap for Allardyce to fill with the meagre resources made available by JW and the board.

Discuss .... But discuss rationally without any pre formed agenda please.

[Hughesy]

I dont believe we use hoof-ball/ long ball too much & no more than we did under Hughes. We also dont use it more than the likes of Stoke or Bolton.

Also a number of the top teams use it (Except maybe Arsenal) but it isnt looked at in the same way by the media.

The only problem I have sometimes with our style is the long throws, which we dont seem to know how to win the knock-ons and the poor lumps up we sometimes get from Nelsen or Andrews.

[thenodrog]

Also a number of the top teams use it (Except maybe Arsenal) but it isnt looked at in the same way by the media.

Good point. Arsenal played the dreaded 4-4-1-1 on Sat for the demolition of Villa.

[RevidgeBlue]

Imo under Hughes we played a high intensity pressing game admittedly with a fair number of long balls but which kept the opposition struggling to keep up with us.

Under Sam I do think we play a lot more completely aimless hoof balls and head tennis which at this level are relatively easy for the opposition to deal with.

Imo also at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what style we play, or what other people think about it, as long as it works and we are winning games. In my view our current style plainly isn't working and we are not getting results. That's the main problem, not whether or not it can be defined as hoofball or not.

(Which I think it is but I wouldn't mind so much if we were winning)

[Kelbo]

Some good points raised here, as a manager, you can only play with what you have got, when Dunny was playing prior to his injury, I felt the ball was passed as well if not better than under Sparky, at wigan I witnessed a six pass one touch move which ended in Nzonzi shooting wide from Bennis back flick!!

You have to play from your strengths, now without Dunn, Grella and Bert, we have little in the way of passing ability in midfield so we go long!!

On the downside, I feel that Benni and Kalinic are box players and need the ball delivered in the six yard box from wide areas or in the channels on the floor, maybe even Di Santo would prefer this type of game, this is where we are lacking!

I watch the better sides and the midfield play the ball wide, we need to get opposition defences facing their own goal instead of facing the balls delivered towards them, Long ball or a 40 yard ball are two different entities, Beckham made a career out of set pieces and his accuracy of delivering a ball from wide areas, looks like Spurs have got Lennons final ball sorted and he is now a very dangerous player!

I agree that Robbos kicking is immense and accurate, if we are to go that way, then we dont have the font men to play that game and maybe a Beattie or dare I say a Davies would be more apt as they play well with their backs to goal. To play this system, we need a strong midfield to get forward quickly and pick up the knockdowns with attempts on goal (ala Speed at Bolton who got a bagful of goals each season)

The major difference under Hughes was this,at our best, we had Savage who was the best of his type at that time and of course Bentley who could deliver from wide areas, now along with a fit Dunny, which he was, we had a midfield of Bentley, Savage and Dunn plus Pederson who was on fire at that time!! After Savage, our game went as we hadnt anyone who could press the ball in the same way.

Given the argument, I would say that with Dunny, Grella and Emerton fit, we would see the ball played much more on the deck, with those three out, we have not the quality in depth to do this and so we go long and use the height of Samba, Di Santo, Nzonzi etc.

[cletus]

I`m guilty of using the "hoofball" word over the last few weeks Gord, mainly cos` where we stand (yes stand) in the ground we can quite accurately predict what Rovers are gonna do......& if we can, then the opposition coaching staff can certainly do the same thing.

When a game vs Blackburn Rovers is coming up, the opposition will be training all week on how to cope with MGP`s long throw-ins & Robbo`s big hoofs upfield. By match day, the opposition defence will be well drilled in what to do & how to cope.

I don`t mind MGP doing his long throws or Robbo hoofing it forward, but they seem to use the tactic at every opportunity. The other team know what`s coming their way. Maybe if the team vary play & get the ball down on the deck, their more direct tactics will become more affective.....cos it will cause confusion in the other team`s ranks.

If you put it this way, Rovers are launching big long balls into a box where one of our Strikers (Roberts) couldn`t control a bag of cement & another (Benni) cannot show off his obvious skill, they are the wrong balls for him.

I`m no football expert or coach, but i do know what good entertaining play is. Quick, on the deck, taking on the man & getting a good cross in for the frontmen all make for good entertaining football.....something which is severely lacking with the current tactics being used.

Watching Blackburn Rovers this season is predictable & boring.

[Ossydave]

The standard of football is terrible at Ewood this season, It's a good job so many people are tied-down with season tickets or I'm almost certain that crowds would be well down on what we're getting at the moment.

[thenodrog]

The standard of football is terrible at Ewood this season, It's a good job so many people are tied-down with season tickets or I'm almost certain that crowds would be well down on what we're getting at the moment.

imo thats more down to personnel..... or lack of them. We've sold almost half a team to clubs at the top of the table and those clubs haven't bought our worst players thats for sure.

[DE.]

I think we actually started off playing good football and slowly got worse, particularly around November when we stopped winning games and Dunny got injured. When Dunn is out we lack any creative spark and generally end up resorting to punting it up the pitch, whereas when Dunn is in the first eleven we play on the deck a little more.

[ABBEY]

no agenda just facts gord,we bypass midfield EVERY time robbo has the ball,he hoofs it up. EVERY freekick is hoofed up in expectatation(granted a goal arised once from this ).EVERY mgp throw is launched in the box with A ZERO % SUCCESS RATE.

we win very little second balls of robbos hoicks ,we score few from the hoofed free kicks and we never win the ball let alone score from the long throw..IF YOUR GONNA LAUNCH IT USE THE SURPRISE FACTOR , mind you i know nowt im no experet im merely a punter.

when we have played footy weve looked not bad but this zzzzam style of lets put everyone to sleep and score while the crowd and the goalie snores is not what i and many more expect from the so called best league in the world.

[thenodrog]

no agenda just facts gord,we bypass midfield EVERY time robbo has the ball, (EVERY is wrong Abbey. Robinson threw the ball out to the wings a few times on Sat.) he hoofs it up. EVERY freekick is hoofed up in expectatation(granted a goal arised once from this ).EVERY mgp throw is launched in the box with A ZERO % SUCCESS RATE. (Wrong again Diouff scored when he took a short one to Chimbonda. I've said many times that long ball is not bad play as long as it is mixed with the other stuff)

btw 'no agenda'!!!! ??????? Yeah right.

[roversWASmylife]

It's been hoofball whether you like it or not.

Against Tottenham it was rubbish. The likes of Di Santo and McCarthy aren't strikers who want it in the air. A few weeks ago I went to watch a League One match and in all honestly, the football was a lot better. Both teams passed it on the floor.

Big Sam has his style of football and yes it might keep us up which survival is the priority. I've said I'll give Big Sam a full season, if the football next season is still like it is now then I'm sure they'll be a few who will pack it in. We're not a club who wants to see hoofball.

I wonder what John Williams is thinking when hes watching Rovers next to Big Sam?

[thenodrog]

It's been hoofball whether you like it or not.

Against Tottenham it was rubbish.

The balanced concensus last night was that it is no worse than when Hughes was here apart from Robbo's contributions.

btw... Tottenhams first was from a hoofball to Crouch. No doubt you missed that on the telly.

[roversWASmylife]

I was at the Tottenham game and Sunderland game. Unfortunately I won't make another this season but doubt I'll be missing much but will be back for next season with a season ticket again.

As for Crouch's first at Ewood. Chimbonda was at fault and Nelsen should have competed better.

[philipl]

There are few things so thrilling as a brilliantly executed 60 yard pass either to feet or into a channel with perfect weight for a player to run onto.

Nzonzi has certainly struck at least a couple of those this season.

There is nothing so depressing as watching a team capable of football being throttled back into being unadventurous and playing unimaginatively and inaccurately then hitting and hoping after inviting the opposition onto you and we have seen nothing but that in about 50% of Rovers' playing time this season. Dull boring football is tolerated by fans if it leaves you 3 points from the top but we are 3 points from the drop and the expert architect of this stuff is fair game for all the flack he is getting.

Hoof ball is a catch-all term which means a multitude of things.

Let's just call what we play boring football and nobody can get technical in trying to deny it.

[thenodrog]

I was at the Tottenham game and Sunderland game. Unfortunately I won't make another this season but doubt I'll be missing much but will be back for next season with a season ticket again.

As for Crouch's first at Ewood. Chimbonda was at fault and Nelsen should have competed better.

The hoofball rwl was to Crouch which he knocked down for Huddlestones awful effort. If he'd caught that even slightly better it was a GK to us.

[S15]

I think the football was better when we played 4-5-1. I would say that the football isn't much worse to Hughes' first season, and Allardyce has an even worse team to what Hughes started out with.

However, you just don't feel things are going forward at the mo, whereas you always felt they were moving forward under Hughes.

[allrovertheworld]

The balanced concensus last night was that it is no worse than when Hughes was here apart from Robbo's contributions.

btw... Tottenhams first was from a hoofball to Crouch. No doubt you missed that on the telly.

Not sure what you guys were drinking then. The football under Hughes was much better and not nearly as much emphasis was put on the long ball, by your own admission we had better players, therefore we could play faster football with the ball on the ground, Bellamy in the wide channels for example. Long ball was an option but we used it as much as any other team in the top half of the table (top half that sounds wierd).

Since Sam has taken over its long ball all the way, I totally undersdtand why. He wants to play football in the final third and with a midfield like ours why wouldn't you want to bypass it at every opportunity. The problem is when it doesn't work, the commitment of our defenders up front for every possible free kick leaves us exposed at the back, Bent on Saturday, Crouch the other week the list can go on. Also when it is our only option and you watch the same passage of play over and over for 90 mins it drives you crazy.What I saw on Saturday made me want to go home at half time, it was pathetic.

We need to use Di Santo in the channel he is rapid and can out muscle most defenders much like Santa Cruz use to do, I beleive him and Kalinic are the way forward for us, with the ball into their feet and like someone else said facing the goal.Kalinic with good passes to him could be very useful for us.

[Commondore]

I dont believe we use hoof-ball/ long ball too much & no more than we did under Hughes. We also dont use it more than the likes of Stoke or Bolton.

Also a number of the top teams use it (Except maybe Arsenal) but it isnt looked at in the same way by the media.

The only problem I have sometimes with our style is the long throws, which we dont seem to know how to win the knock-ons and the poor lumps up we sometimes get from Nelsen or Andrews.

Which top teams would that be?

[Amo]

I don't think anyone would have many qualms about "hoof ball" if it produced results. At the moment we don't have the organisation or personnel to play it effectively and resort to aimless balls into the box, which the opposition relishes. Our football under Hughes wasn't often breathtaking, but we had players such as Bentley, Bellamy and Pedersen (in his pomp) who added that extra bit of class and spontaneity. At the moment, the only player resembling that is Dunn - who is perennially injured. Therefore we have to make do with our lot, and play to their strengths. We have players who like the ball to feet: Kalinic, Di Santo, Hoilett, McCarthy, Salgado... dare I say, Andrews! That's not to say we shouldn't go long when the game demands it, but it's not working as our number one gameplan.

[roversmum]

There are few things so thrilling as a brilliantly executed 60 yard pass either to feet or into a channel with perfect weight for a player to run onto.

Nzonzi has certainly struck at least a couple of those this season.

There is nothing so depressing as watching a team capable of football being throttled back into being unadventurous and playing unimaginatively and inaccurately then hitting and hoping after inviting the opposition onto you and we have seen nothing but that in about 50% of Rovers' playing time this season. Dull boring football is tolerated by fans if it leaves you 3 points from the top but we are 3 points from the drop and the expert architect of this stuff is fair game for all the flack he is getting.

Hoof ball is a catch-all term which means a multitude of things.

Let's just call what we play boring football and nobody can get technical in trying to deny it.

Haven't had time to digest the thread properly so apologies if I repeat a point, however Philip's post certainly hits the spot with me. WE know our players are capable of much more than they are producing. I'm not convinced they are playing to their strengths. It seems as if they are being shackled. I'm usually a cup half full kind of gal but I'm seriously depressed at the moment. Of course, if a few goals had actually gone in here and there the situation would seem much rosier. I blame Souness. I reckon he's found Lady Luck and has taken her for himself...

[Exiled in Toronto]

I don't see how one can compare to the Hughes era as though it was one entity; each season seemed quite different to me. His first year was grim to watch; the Bellamy/Savage year was fantastic in parts and never less than pleasing; The Benni year was also good - the European run was excellent; the Bentley/RSC year was a bit one dimensional and thus less effective, but we scored some good cross/header goals.

Hoof ball is a term without a clear meaning - thus open to endless debate - and only one component of our managers philosophy anyway. Personally, I don't much mind Robbo's punts, they are better on the whole than Brad's distribution. It's the style in the last third that kills me. Playing for throw-ins from which nothing ever happens other than us being caught on the break. Playing for free kicks is part of the game now, so that's ok I suppose. The one thing I have noticed recently is the second ball is mostly lobbed gently back into the mixer resulting in far more head tennis than anytime I can remember.

My biggest problem is that all the above is Plan A, not plan B. I read a few years ago Nolan saying that Sam fined anyone who shot from outside the box. His stifling of personal initiative means we will hardly ever, if at all, see us score goals that live in the memory and make all the dross worthwhile.

[Sir Ranulf Westwood]

Fact.

Bunging Samba up front was the extent of BFS's tactical plan last season.

[bozrover]

Say things often enough and people will believe it and repeat it whether it's fact or fiction! Is this happening at BRFC now? the type of football we are playing is more like rugby , think we should change the shape of the ball to an egg shaped on and change our name to blackburn rovers rugby club

Nearly every football topic on here the term 'hoof ball' or 'long ball' is repeated ad infinitum. It's spreading like wildfire amongst our supporters but over a couple of scoops in the local last night a few of us discussed this allegation. Anyway the general concensus of opinion when people thought long and hard is that in general we are not playing long ball football in open play any more than when Hughes was in charge!

The main points discussed were.....

1. Bentley as an out obviously made a difference for a season or so but he's gone, thats that, no good crying over spilled milk etc, and now the big difference is in one player... Paul Robinson. Brad could barely reach the halfway line with bis kicks whilst Robbo has to pull back from hitting it straight to the opposing keeper. He seems to be able to hit any area on the pitch from free kicks too. I'm in no doubt that if Brad had Robinsons kicking ability he would have used it just the same.

2. The hoof ball situation was also increased when through desperation last season we threw Samba up top where it made sense to use his height and physical strength. Basically we Wimbledon'd our path to survival. Not many objections this side of Rishton at the time either.

3. We now use the long throw much more (except when we want to score like on Mon ) because we have Samba, N'Zonzi and Di Santo all between 6'3" and 6'6" which like it or not does give us an advantage from this tactic..... albeit an advantage that doesn't seem very tangible to us after the past half season.

BUT in open play we came to agree that there is actually little difference in playing style from the hughes era and especially now that Dunny's talent is off the selection agenda. The big difference being that for the second time since our last promotion we have seen our 'crown jewels' leave for greener pastures. Obviously Tugay's retirement left a huge gap that imo is virtually impossible to fill but the losses of RSC, Warnock and Bentley (and injury to Bert too) left a huge gap for Allardyce to fill with the meagre resources made available by JW and the board.

Discuss .... But discuss rationally without any pre formed agenda please.

[ABBEY]

Fact.

Bunging Samba up front was the extent of BFS's tactical plan last season.

fact 3-2

fact 30 years

fact you wernt even in the div last year

fact your going down

fact your sisters still waiting

fact it took you months before you reared your mongified head on here

fact your irrellevent

fact ive 100 dabs on beating you at t'urd.