[Archived] Hoof Ball! Fact Or Fiction?

[DP]

This thread does seem to be a desperate attempt to salvage some credibility, what with claims of mud slinging and conversations in the pub with a rugby fan....

As it happens there have been 2 games I've seen this season where I was reminded of a Mark Hughes team. They were Fulham and Birmingham, not Rovers.

Call it Total Football if you like Thenodrog but we're not playing to our strengths and not winning games.

[riverside returns]

I agree that pass and move is the best type of football. We do have the players, they just need confidence to do it. something a little in short supply just now.

[AggyBlue]

We can do better than we are. That's the way we should be looking though Aggy. We must be looking for footballers. - Don't you agree?

Totally but we can't afford ones at the required level. 

[thenodrog]

Simple pass and move shuffled with long balls when the game required it.

Surely thats what we do?

btw Leeds leading the Mancs through a 'hoof ball' and a crap 1st touch by Beckford.

[AggyBlue]

btw Leeds leading the Mancs through a 'hoof ball' and a crap 1st touch by Beckford.

After all these years you've been watching football and you still can't tell the difference between a pass and a 'hoof'

[Exiled in Toronto]

Surely thats what we do?

btw Leeds leading the Mancs through a 'hoof ball' and a crap 1st touch by Beckford.

The Leeds goal was chalk and cheese compared to our style. It was a long pass into the space in front of a player who was already sprinting towards the goal having effectively evaded his marker. His touch was indeed poor but the opening had already been fashioned by his running. That's not what we do. We play long balls towards static strikers facing their own goal who have two defenders up their arse, hoping they will be fouled or that it will bounce back to one of our midfielders. That is hoofball.

[thenodrog]

The problem with hoofball is that any club who comes out and battles against you, will give you a game because it evens out the playing field. Pass and move will beat any side that simply works hard.

Pass and move with a positive attitude and setting targets higher than you might achieve, is the way to go. It's the ONLY way to go.

Best team that I've ever seen relegated was Nottm Forest in the mid 90's. They weren't allowed to play it in the air at all through Cloughie's stubborness in his last years, they passed it delightfully in little triangles all over the park........ except into the net.

Never been seen since either.

As I have said mant times there is nothing wrong with long ball or intricate passing play as long as they are of good quality and that there is a balance which keeps the options open and the opposition guessing.

[den]

Totally but we can't afford ones at the required level.

No, I can't accept that Aggy. We're the only club in the Premier League who are playing the way we do, not all the time, but most of the time.

We can play football as shown in certain games, but we need to cut out all these long kicks from Robinson and all the long free kicks from the same man.

As I have said mant times there is nothing wrong with long ball or intricate passing play as long as they are of good quality and that there is a balance which keeps the options open and the opposition guessing.

No-one would argue with that Gord, and I've said earlier in the thread that teams need a mix, but that's not what we're seeing most of the time.

[AggyBlue]

We must be looking for footballers. - Don't you agree?

Totally but we can't afford ones at the required level. 

No, I can't accept that Aggy. 

OK so you think we can afford to sign players at the required level. We shall see.

[den]

OK so you think we can afford to sign players at the required level. We shall see.

You're not really saying we have no other option than to get Robbo booting everything into the opponents penalty area are you Aggy?

[AggyBlue]

You're not really saying we have no other option than to get Robbo booting everything into the opponents penalty area are you Aggy?

I'd rather see us play through midfield more but with a midfield full of either reserves or crocks, Sam sees it as the best option.

[den]

I'd rather see us play through midfield more but with a midfield full of either reserves or crocks, Sam sees it as the best option.

To be honest Aggy, my gripe is mainly with Robbo belting it as far as he can and with every Pedersen throw-in being aimed at Samba's head.

If Robbo threw it out a lot more and Samba wasn't called on for every throw in, I'm sure we would be more effective.

For the record I was in favour of Allardyce from the outset and I haven't changed my mind - mainly down to the fact that I don't see the board changing him any time soon, nor do I see any real alternative. That said, some of the stuff has been mind destroying. Some of it, - not enough, has been excellent as well, i.e. Villa and Liverpool in the league.

[Fife Rover]

Say things often enough and people will believe it and repeat it whether it's fact or fiction! Is this happening at BRFC now?

Nearly every football topic on here the term 'hoof ball' or 'long ball' is repeated ad infinitum. It's spreading like wildfire amongst our supporters but over a couple of scoops in the local last night a few of us discussed this allegation. Anyway the general concensus of opinion when people thought long and hard is that in general we are not playing long ball football in open play any more than when Hughes was in charge!

BUT in open play we came to agree that there is actually little difference in playing style from the hughes era and especially now that Dunny's talent is off the selection agenda. The big difference being that for the second time since our last promotion we have seen our 'crown jewels' leave for greener pastures. Obviously Tugay's retirement left a huge gap that imo is virtually impossible to fill but the losses of RSC, Warnock and Bentley (and injury to Bert too) left a huge gap for Allardyce to fill with the meagre resources made available by JW and the board.

Discuss .... But discuss rationally without any pre formed agenda please.

You really are the supreme optimist Theno.

[Tom]

FACT

[philipl]

Hoofball is a fact.

I argued no earlier in this thread but I cannot deny the evidence of my own eyes.

Problem is, we are not even any good at hoofball either...

[DE.]

It has most certainly become fact. Whether it's because Sam tells them to play this way or because the players have no ideas is up for debate, but the fact is when we get the ball the first thing we look to do is HOOF it up in the direction of our striker.

[braddock]

fact until we are 3-0 down or playing in the league cup. it's interesting that it is these times when we are at our best. sam can't seem to see this though.

[LDRover]

Well if that's not hoofball I watched tonight then I'll plait @#/?.

[Rovers0411]

Say things often enough and people will believe it and repeat it whether it's fact or fiction! Is this happening at BRFC now?

Nearly every football topic on here the term 'hoof ball' or 'long ball' is repeated ad infinitum. It's spreading like wildfire amongst our supporters but over a couple of scoops in the local last night a few of us discussed this allegation. Anyway the general concensus of opinion when people thought long and hard is that in general we are not playing long ball football in open play any more than when Hughes was in charge!

The main points discussed were.....

1. Bentley as an out obviously made a difference for a season or so but he's gone, thats that, no good crying over spilled milk etc, and now the big difference is in one player... Paul Robinson. Brad could barely reach the halfway line with bis kicks whilst Robbo has to pull back from hitting it straight to the opposing keeper. He seems to be able to hit any area on the pitch from free kicks too. I'm in no doubt that if Brad had Robinsons kicking ability he would have used it just the same.

2. The hoof ball situation was also increased when through desperation last season we threw Samba up top where it made sense to use his height and physical strength. Basically we Wimbledon'd our path to survival. Not many objections this side of Rishton at the time either.

3. We now use the long throw much more (except when we want to score like on Mon ) because we have Samba, N'Zonzi and Di Santo all between 6'3" and 6'6" which like it or not does give us an advantage from this tactic..... albeit an advantage that doesn't seem very tangible to us after the past half season.

BUT in open play we came to agree that there is actually little difference in playing style from the hughes era and especially now that Dunny's talent is off the selection agenda. The big difference being that for the second time since our last promotion we have seen our 'crown jewels' leave for greener pastures. Obviously Tugay's retirement left a huge gap that imo is virtually impossible to fill but the losses of RSC, Warnock and Bentley (and injury to Bert too) left a huge gap for Allardyce to fill with the meagre resources made available by JW and the board.

Discuss .... But discuss rationally without any pre formed agenda please.

I agree entirely but will go further. Dalglish's PL winning team played a lot of long ball but we could afford better players so it was also winning football - remember Ray Harford was credited with the coaching and tactics of that team and he had been one of the architects of the lomg ball game by the infamous Crazy Gang at Wimbledon.

Look at the Bolton team Sam built. Yes it was direct at times but over time he was able to acquire players who brought flair to the team as well - you don`t play 'hoof ball' all the time with players like Anelka, Jay Jay, Campo, El Hierro, Djorkaeff etc. Unfortunately labels stick, just like Hughes' Rovers teams were always branded 'Bully Boys'. Another example was when fans last night were chanting 4-4-2. If Benni had started instead of Dunny the perception is that Sam has gone for a 4-4-2 formation. When Dunny plays off the main striker instead of Benni fans accuse Sam of fielding a negative 4-5-1. The reality is that Benni and Dunny play in the same role, the 'hole' behind the main striker but people's perception differs because Benni has always been consiered an out and out striker and Dunny a midfield player despite scoring more goals in the 'hole' than Benni!

[scotchrover]

The fact of the matter is, it's shocking to watch and at the end of the day i pay x amount for my season ticket (plus away games), to go to watch rovers for the entertainment not to watch the ball be hoof'd up in the air and wait for thr other team to come onto us (after giving it them from the hoof).

It's bloody awful to watch to be honest and ifi wanted to see "hoof", i would go watch Sale Shark's. One things for sure, my season ticket isn't being renewed until Allardyce goes

[mellison24]

The fact of the matter is, it's shocking to watch and at the end of the day i pay x amount for my season ticket (plus away games), to go to watch rovers for the entertainment not to watch the ball be hoof'd up in the air and wait for thr other team to come onto us (after giving it them from the hoof).

It's bloody awful to watch to be honest and ifi wanted to see "hoof", i would go watch Sale Shark's. One things for sure, my season ticket isn't being renewed until Allardyce goes

I on the other hand do the same, but to watch my team and hope they win regardless of style of play.

[cn174]

I on the other hand do the same, but to watch my team and hope they win regardless of style of play.

Hope, that is the best we can do atm

If this 'style' of play meant that we won games then I could deal with it, but it isn't.

[mellison24]

Hope, that is the best we can do atm

If this 'style' of play meant that we won games then I could deal with it, but it isn't.

I agree wholeheartedly, but would never use it as an excuse not to do my favourite hobby as scotch said.

[Rovers0411]

I agree wholeheartedly, but would never use it as an excuse not to do my favourite hobby as scotch said.

Exactly, and a real supporter stands by his/her team, regardless of of results or performances. Withdrawing your support and/or booing the team does nothing except make the situation worse. At times like this the team need all the support they can get. Get behind the team and TOGETHER we can turn things round.

[roversactive]

Fact.

How many times did the ball leave Jacobsen's foot in the game last night to go long to nobody for no reason - too many times.

The commentators commented on what a slow paced game it was, Man City stood off us and our job was simple. Pass and Move... did we do that... did we heck! The one of two times we did this, we ended up in a good advanced position.

Robinson is capable of long passes, but why doesn't he just pass it 5/10 yards and build from the back. Keep a bit of possession for a change.

One more word to add to sum up our play, you probably know what it is... Predictable