[Archived] This Is Bad News

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Go on then. I'll play Devil's advocate like I usually do. Bear with me.

Wooton Basset is a small town where the dead of the British army from the "wars" in Iraq and Afganistan are paraded through the town.

So far so good. The bodies are landed nearby and then paraded through the town in coffins in rememberance. No problem with that at all.

Them there Muslims want to remember the thousands of "other" people who have did in Iraq & Afganistan who have died in exactly the same war but they are not the perpetrators of the war, nor they are enemy combatants.

Why on earth do you, me, & we have any objection to the people of Wooten Basset, or indeed any of us, spending 5 minutes to bow their heads for the thousands, perhaps milions, of people of Iraqi & Afganistani who have lost their lives in the wars there. It's not a memorial for the combatants on "the other side" which makes it less offensive to my mind.

The fact that they might adhere to some "foreign" religion doesn't really make much difference. Does it?

"F**k 'em they're not British/Christians hardly holds much water. Not really adhering to the "milk of human kindness" is it?

Start the flak

Moronic post- Even for you Colin. The groups protest march has nothing to do with dead Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is simply a case of spreading there monolithic Islamist message via the press, whilst also illustrating the power that these groups hold over local councils and central government.

Kamy s summarises this nicely above.

[BRFC Casuals]

Dont quite know what all the fuss is about aint we all allowed to hold peacefull demos i for one hope this demo is allowed to go ahead as our fellow British Muslims have every right to march in their / our country , but remember

Tomorrow belongs to us .............

[Guest Kamy100]

Thats well and good Kamy and I applaud them but wouldn't a counter march be more effective if it was open to all comers and not just muslims. Integration is perhaps the crux of the issue.

The countermarch will comprise of all faiths and open to all, it's been co-ordinated by lady called Jo Cleary.

[JAL]

"What are you going to do about it?" "What are you going to do about it?" "What are you going to do about it?" "What are you going to do about it?"

I seem to be like that Rev, most first halfs at Ewood.

Dont quite know what all the fuss is about aint we all allowed to hold peacefull demos i for one hope this demo is allowed to go ahead as our fellow British Muslims have every right to march in their / our country , but remember

Tomorrow belongs to us .............

It has more than a hint of provocation about it, fair play to remember and recognise the dead of other nationalities and faiths.

But in Wooton Basset, its more than a little insensitive. Another place yes, but not their.

[BRFC Casuals]

It has more than a hint of provocation about it,

That is my badly made point JAL its just 100% pure provocation by a few nutters, im sure that most British Muslims are as horrified by the thought of this march as we are the only good thing to come out of this farce will be the thousands of extra votes for the BNP this spring

[BuckyRover]

I seem to be like that Rev, most first halfs at Ewood.

It has more than a hint of provocation about it, fair play to remember and recognise the dead of other nationalities and faiths.

But in Wooton Basset, its more than a little insensitive. Another place yes, but not their.

*Grammar police required*

That is my badly made point JAL its just 100% pure provocation by a few nutters, im sure that most British Muslims are as horrified by the thought of this march as we are the only good thing to come out of this farce will be the thousands of extra votes for the BNP this spring

I think you may be correct.

Although, as a percentage of total votes cast they will get hammered. This is a general election not local/european ones and as a result hardly anybody will vote for them.

[BRFC Casuals]

I think you may be correct.

Although, as a percentage of total votes cast they will get hammered. This is a general election not local/european ones and as a result hardly anybody will vote for them.

Correct me if im wrong but aint a European election / seat bigger than a general one with regards to law making and anything that really matters in this world today

You dont think people are going to vote old skool lab\con\lib do you cause with all thats gone on with all the expences etc that would make people really stupid at least vote monster raving loony they tell you up front that they are going to take the ######

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

You dont think people are going to vote old skool lab\con\lib do you cause with all thats gone on with all the expences etc that would make people really stupid

You support the BNP and have the literacy skills of an 8 year old, I don't think you can suggest somebody else is stupid without a heightened sense of irony.

[JAL]

That is my badly made point JAL its just 100% pure provocation by a few nutters, im sure that most British Muslims are as horrified by the thought of this march as we are the only good thing to come out of this farce will be the thousands of extra votes for the BNP this spring

If its still a hint, then action has to be taken against it, it cannot be ignored. Can it

[colin]

Moronic post- Even for you Colin. The groups protest march has nothing to do with dead Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is simply a case of spreading there monolithic Islamist message via the press, whilst also illustrating the power that these groups hold over local councils and central government.

Bazza, you're discussing issues with someone you call a moron? How does that make you feel eh? You like discussing issues with a moron? Make you feel good and clever?

If a bunch of socially malajusted misfits wish to honour "their dead" in a small town called Wooten Bassett then that's their perogative.

it is simply a case of spreading there monolithic Islamist message via the press, whilst also illustrating the power that these groups hold over local councils and central government.

Yeh right......It's probably the Islamists who are failing to grit and salt the roads to bring the Monarchy down.

Don't want to be disagreeable Bazza, but don't call me a moron. I've got an "O" level in biology.

Cheers

Colin

[broadsword]

Go on then. I'll play Devil's advocate like I usually do. Bear with me.

Wooton Basset is a small town where the dead of the British army from the "wars" in Iraq and Afganistan are paraded through the town.

So far so good. The bodies are landed nearby and then paraded through the town in coffins in rememberance. No problem with that at all.

Them there Muslims want to remember the thousands of "other" people who have did in Iraq & Afganistan who have died in exactly the same war but they are not the perpetrators of the war, nor they are enemy combatants.

Why on earth do you, me, & we have any objection to the people of Wooten Basset, or indeed any of us, spending 5 minutes to bow their heads for the thousands, perhaps milions, of people of Iraqi & Afganistani who have lost their lives in the wars there. It's not a memorial for the combatants on "the other side" which makes it less offensive to my mind.

The fact that they might adhere to some "foreign" religion doesn't really make much difference. Does it?

"F**k 'em they're not British/Christians hardly holds much water. Not really adhering to the "milk of human kindness" is it?

Start the flak

Hmmmm .... interesting post this, Mr C. Are these sincerely-held beliefs? I feel that, well-intended that they are, they're dangerously-misplaced.

The political nature of the war should be kept separate from honouring the repatriated dead. Wooton Bassett is now synonymous with honouring the fallen. They joined-up with the army to serve their country, they have no say in the rights and wrongs of their deployment (and I have to say that I am personally against both conflicts).

If they wish to make a protest against both of these conflicts then there are peaceful, effective, ways and means of making their voice heard. This country affords that democratic right, paid for by blood spilt by our servicemen. It is an insult to them, and to those that have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, to demonstrate in Wooton Bassett on the same day as a repatriation. I think anyone with any common sense will know this is not about justifiable protest, but rather trying to foment hatred and divisions within UK society. This is what they need to thrive and bring about their aims. they are exploiting the safety and democracy that the UK provides to harm our society.

I am more than happy to remember the poor souls who have perished in Afghanistan and Iraq - those that are caught in the middle that is, not al Qaeda or the Taliban or insurgents or terrorists, (Please don't use that word again) them. I know I wouldn't want to live in a country littered with depleted uranium and with an infrastructure that has been bombed to kingdom come.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to see a bunch of loonies insult our war dead.

I wonder what you were thinking when you made that post as it just seems to be a wind-up. These people are not asking the rest of the country to spend 5 minutes thinking of other war dead. They're after trouble, and if something isn't done they're going to get it.

I think you've tried to stir up a little trouble of your own, can't say I'm impressed.

[adopted scouser]

Bazza, you're discussing issues with someone you call a moron? How does that make you feel eh? You like discussing issues with a moron? Make you feel good and clever?

If a bunch of socially malajusted misfits wish to honour "their dead" in a small town called Wooten Bassett then that's their perogative.

Yeh right......It's probably the Islamists who are failing to grit and salt the roads to bring the Monarchy down.

Don't want to be disagreeable Bazza, but don't call me a moron. I've got an "O" level in biology.

Cheers

Colin

Silly post from an obviously intelligent man, defending the indefensible, only the nutters agree with you >> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2796399/Muslims-of-Wootton-Bassett-slam-hateful-Choudarys-protest-call.html

Just a thought, in the spirit of free speech why not let them have the march ? The public could desert the town, board everywhere up, blanket ban on all media, no TV, no radio, no newspapers.

[Rover Down Under]

I'd be prepared to stomach such a march if, and only if, these "protesters" then organise marches in Tehran, Islamabad, Mecca, Kabul etc. etc. to remember and honour the tens of thousands of men, women and children (who were innocent, non-comabatants) that died in Nairobi, 9/11, 7/7, Bali etc.

Can't really see it happening though, oh wait...there WERE marches in the streets of many Islamic countries after these atrocities, yes, now I remember! As they danced and cheered and celebrated the murder of thousands of innocents, again and again and again and threatened more and more violence. And oh, how could I forget! They even brought their delightful tour to the streets of London a few years ago, our own "citizens" chanting "Death to the UK" and "7/7...just the beginning".

We really are a terrible bunch of people with our "F**k 'em they're not British/Christians" attitude and not remembering these innocent lives that have sadly been lost, especially when in many Islamic countries they are all so willing and eager to march and remember innocent "kafirs" murdered, apparently, in the name of Islam. So yes, please go ahead with your march Islam4UK, and please don't forget to "remember" the innocent non-Muslim civilians killed in the next terrorist attack so that you can remind us all what a bunch of hypocrites we are.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

If a bunch of socially malajusted misfits wish to honour "their dead" in a small town called Wooten Bassett then that's their perogative.

You seriously cant believe, that honouring the dead of people from nations that they have most likely never visited; is there primary objective?

[Rovermatt]

I have to agree with Bazza. These prats may be claiming to honour the dead civilians of Iraq and Afghanistan but you must be seriously blinkered if you don't realise it will quickly turn into another tiresome anti-Western, 'Kill of the Infidels' rally.

[mellison24]

Adding to the 'no media' bit in a post further back (apologies for forgetting who), maybe we should send snipers? these idiots are simply trying to disrespect the soldiers that die for our cause and freedom (including the freedom of these very same morons). People like this make the people who drunkenly ###### on a war memorial look like nuns. They are hate-mongers, and we certainly do bloody hate them.

[broadsword]

I suspect they never had any real intention of marching through Wooton Bassett (too much risk of getting a shoeing), and instead are just trying to create media attention and stir up divisions. They seem to have achieved this admirably. All it needs is for Gordon Brown to ban it and they can back down with "honour".

Whereas if they'd abnnounced it would take place in Bradford, they may well have had to go through with it.

[colin]

OK here I go again.

Without any intention to show any disrespect to anyone. I'm sensitive enough to know that if I've hit a nerve with Bryan then I'm treading on thin ice.

The good people of Wootan Bassett have taken it themselves to line up and honour the British Army dead who have died in Afganistan & Iraq. All the best to them for doing that. But surely they and the rest of us are not so insular and parochial to not realise that those two invasions and wars have resulted in many thousands (some say millions) of civilian Afghastistanis & Iraqis dying in the wars there.

Is this country not big enough and honest enough to stand up and acknowledge that our involvement in those two countries has been partly to blame for thousands of deaths of their people. They have lost sons & daughters, wives & husbands left right & centre. They have been bombed & shot at & killed at will by some soldiers from foreign countries 10,000 miles away and I'm still uncertain why on earth the US & the UK ever got involved. I know the reasons given but they are as thin as tissue paper to me.

The people of Wootan Bassett line up to honour the British dead. Similarly we as a nation line up to honour the British dead of WW1 & WW2 every November. Does it not cross anyone's mind that perhaps the people of Germany; Italy; Japan; France; USA; India; Australia; New Zealand; India & Tibet also have a rememberance on behalf of the poor sods who were sent off to die on behalf of their countries.

As for that Muslim march on Wootan Bassett. It's just another march to commemorate dead people killed in a f*****g stupid war. Let them get on with it. Dead people killed in stupid wars need celebrating. Loud & long.

Stuff everyone who agrees with another war and then respectfully doffs their hats as the bodies come home.

That's me letting of steam a bit

[thenodrog]

when you are in a hole Colin it's best to stop digging.

[colin]

when you are in a hole Colin it's best to stop digging.

I'm not in a hole & I'm not digging. I'm not suggesting that I have all the answers (do you?) I'm just posting mu opinion that a lot of the Hooten Bassett stuff is nonsensense, spewed out by hysterical newspaper editors needing to fill their papers with sensational rubbish.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Not really adhering to the "milk of human kindness" is it?

Colin, can I tell you a little bit about Anjem Choudary, pictured below, the leader of the Islamist group "Islam4UK" and the man responsible for choosing and planning the march in Wootton Bassett.

He's a very unpleasant man Colin and I would question whether we should offer the "milk of human kindness" to a man who has praised terrorist bombers and called for the Pope to be executed.

Choudary is a student and friend of Omar Bakri and the two men helped form the extremist Islamist organisation, al-Muhajiroun, which was later disbanded after the British government banned the group.

Omar Bakri called the 9/11 hijackers "the magnificent 19". He said that children "must kill and be killed" for Islam and said that suicide bombers were assured of a place in paradise if they crashed a jet on 10 Downing Street.

Mr Choudary himself has praised terrorists involved in attacks. He described the September 11 terrorists as "magnificent martyrs". He has attacked the Muslim Council of Britain, who had condemned the September 11 attack, accusing them of "selling their souls to the devil".

Choudary believes in the full implementation of Sharia Law in its entirety throughout Britain. He has compared fallen British soldiers to Nazi Stormtroopers.

In 2000, Choudary issued a press release which threatened British Jews if they continued to support Israel. The press release said that it is an "Islamic obligation upon Muslims everywhere to support the Jihad against those who fight Muslims anywhere in the world or who occupy Muslim land."

In 2006, Choudary said that the Pope should face execution and said that those who insulted Islam should be "subject to capital punishment". (See the link here)

Islam4UK, led by Choudary, states that it's aims are to "propagate the supreme Islamic ideology within the United Kingdom as a divine alternative to man-made law" and "convince the British public about the superiority of Islam, thereby changing public opinion in favour of Islam in order to transfer the authority and power to the Muslims in order to implement the Sharee’ah."

When Choudary marched in protest during the Danish cartoons controversy in 2006, some of the banners carried by those marching alongside Choudary, included slogans such as "Massacre those who insult Islam", "Behead those who insult Islam" and "Muslims we unite and we are prepared to fight".

Presumably this isn't the type of thing that you would like to see in Wootton Bassett, Colin?

As for that Muslim march on Wootan Bassett. Let them get on with it.

Gordon Brown says of the planned march by Choudary and Islam4UK: "Anything that is considered to be offensive to families of troops wounded or killed would be completely inappropriate."

Do you disagree with the Prime Minister, Colin? Do you think that the Muslim march should go ahead - "Let them get on with it" - even if it causes a great deal of offence to the families of wounded and killed soldiers?

The Muslim Council of Great Britain has condemned Islam4UK's marches, stating that "It is very irresponsible as it is bound to create further tension."

Do you disagree with The Muslim Council of Great Britain, Colin?

Ex-mayor and councillor of Wootton Bassett, Chris Wannell, has said of the planned march by Anjem Choudary: "If this man has any decency about him he will not hold a march through Wootton Bassett."

The Secretary of Wootton Bassett British Legion, Anne Bevis, has urged Islam4UK to think "long and hard" before marching and believes it will cause offence to the families of soldiers.

Do you disagree with Ms Bevis and Mr Wannell, Colin?

Chris Grayling, the shadow Home Secretary, has said: "The actions of Islam4UK are utterly objectionable. It has close links with banned preachers of hate and has arranged for them to preach in the UK by audio and video link."

Do you disagree with Mr Grayling, Colin? Is your view "Let them get on with it" - even if Islam4UK have close links with banned preachers of hate and are "utterly objectionable"?

Do you believe that adhering to the "milk of human kindness" for people like Anjem Choudary is important - a man who has compared British soldiers to Nazi Stormtroopers - even if such "human kindness" causes a great deal of offence to the families of wounded and killed British soldiers?

[philipl]

ASEF misses the point again.

The nutters' march in Wootton Basset is as inflamarory as the BNP thinking they can march in Brick Lane- they probably got the idea from copying BNP tactics!

However, there are grievous losses of civilian lives in theatres of war in which Britain has chosen to participate in. No doubt had Blair been Commander-in-Chief rather than Bush many of the dumb decisions immediately post Mission Accomplished would never have happened but we are tarred by association with the decisions of the biggest fool ever to enter the White House.

There are ways of showing our sorrow for the untold grief unleashed on the peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan by our leaders' misguided desire to be poodles but what the prat with the beard is planning is not one of them and in fact has nothing to do with the grief of two wars and everything about getting on "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here" or some such in a few years time.

[colin]

AESF,

Yep he looks a complete T**t. I've no intention of defending him nor his stupid religious views, so please don't try and ask me to, or suggest that I might want to. But if he's stupid enough let him roll with it and go with the consequences. I merely suggested that someone might just mention the dead people of Iraq & Afganistan as a sort of counter-point to "our brave boys" which is becoming a bit of a cliche.

Salaam

[neekoy]

Colin, just to clarify the following,

You believe a march by Islam4UK would be inappropriate? As you say, let them get on with it, I suggest you are satisfied that any violence carried out in retaliations for their blatant stir is justified?

You believe that the dead soldiers should not be remembered unless we also make reference to the dead civilians? Should we therefore remember all the other people who died in the hospital my grandfather passed away in? Or is it because you feel the honouring of the dead is politicised and cliche that we need to look at both sides of the arguement?

Because this is a stupid war conducted under stupid cirumstances by stupid people these soldier's should not be honoured and remembered for their bravery in going to a place they most probably didn't want to go to and died fighting, even but for a stupid reason.

The thread has been started due to a march by Islam4UK, why can't you just say it is inappropraite and wrong?

[philipl]

Actually the thread was started to highlight the fact that Irish terrorism is now assessed to be a bigger threat than Islamist terrorism by the security forces in the UK at the moment. Not that the latter has receeded, just the former set of nutters are re-uniting and murdering and planting bombs in Ulster. Thankfully they are being starved of the publicity they crave which is making them more anxious to stage a "spectacular" some time soon.

Incidentally the hang 'em, toture 'em brigade are going to have a real problem with last night's Newsnight programme which to put it mildly raises some serious questions about the conduct of the British investigation into Lockerbie - Maltese link