[Archived] City Away - Monday 11 January 2010

[thenodrog]

Could anyone imagine Micah Richards gliding through our midfield/defence with Flitcroft/Neill or Todd playing. He would have been taken out big style and they would have taken a yellow card for their trouble.

We have lost that aggression that we used to have and I am getting sick and tired of the pundits/experts keep harping on about.."Sam's team is always well organised and difficult to beat or play against".

Absolute rubbish...these days we are a soft touch and everyone knows it.

I'd agree with that. I rem Williams giving Hughes a dressing down over our disciplinary record instead of doing what he should have done by defending the squad and giving the FA and media what for over certain refereeing decisions, comments from opposing managers and unfounded media allegations.

[Tom]

Got to say Pedersens goal was superb but his contribution to that point was poor

[thenodrog]

I wouldn't be too disappointed to go down to come up again...we've a shed load of good young players like Judge, Doran, Hoilett etc...who need to be given a chance to excite the crowd and I think this has to happen in the Championship. It happened before with the likes of Dunn, Duff, Jansen coming through and taking it on into the Premiership with good flowing football....I've had enough of this dross every week and want something done about it.....Shearer in charge, us in the championship and time to get the team spot on.....

Never think that. I thought the same in 65-66. It took 25 years and a multi millionaire to rescue us then and I see no reason to think that history would repeat itself.

[Sparky Marky]

yeah mate, but aren't you really bored watchin this cack.?

[thenodrog]

The problem is we can't get rid of them.

High earners not earning their paypacket. They are bleeding the club dry. We haven't even enough cash left to bring in any freebies.

Hence my previous suggestions that top wages but short contracts is the way forward. 18 month rolling max, except for a small minority if they agree to sign a longer one. I can only think of Samba, N'Zonzi and possibly Hoillett that I'd consider for a 3 year offer.

[den]

Missed him greatly but he wouldn't sign a new contract so we had to cash in. I wanted Ince to come out and say that NO ONE leaves until christmas but he didn't and so Bentley went. In fairness to all if Ince had forbidden him to leave he'd still have left in January or we'd have lost big money.

The prob was with Ince thinking that he could replace him with Julie!

Bentley had three years left on his contract Gord. I got blasted at the time for going on too long about Rovers getting rid all too quickly, but selling our best players is the reason we are, where we are.

[SAS]

We played poor in the first half, but the introductions of kalinic, hoillet and olssen really changed us.

On a side note we had the same amount of shot as Man C.

[thenodrog]

yeah mate, but aren't you really bored watchin this cack.?

Bored? Try watching us get beaten at the likes of Gigg lane, Gay Meadow, Millmoor and Field Mill. At least last night we were able to watch guys plying their trade that will be going to South Africa with the worlds best this summer. Problem is none play for us.

[Gav]

After several hours to reflect on what I thought was a pathetic performance, its not got any better…..

We looked poor from keeper to strikers, but the real worry for me was we didn’t look fit? Something that can be sorted out on the training ground regardless of the players ability and we looked several yards of the pace.

It was totally embarrassing last night and the 400 supporters that travelled the 30 miles to Manchester should be applauded, but that in itself is significant for me. I know we’ve only won once away in 16 but 400 travelling fans?

The signs are not good going into the cup semi final, if we lose on Thursday and Sunday he has to go.

[Amo]

The most sobering thought is that this weakened City side didn't even need to get out of third gear. They cruised through this game against a Blackburn Rovers side who couldn't understand how to compete. We had no recognisable gameplan (I don't regard hoofing it to Di Santo and praying for a miracle a gameplan) and even the changes at half-time were made too late.

[thenodrog]

Bentley had three years left on his contract Gord. I got blasted at the time for going on too long about Rovers getting rid all too quickly, but selling our best players is the reason we are, where we are.

Agreed. Cast your mind back and my advice to Ince was that nobody leaves this club until we are safe from relegation. Bear in mind in Ince's defence that Bentley wanted to leave whilst Highes was here and was obviously under instructions from his agent to 'kick off' in order to paint BRFc into a corner over him.

BUT Nicko reported that Bentley would sign an improved contract in Jan no problem, all of a sudden things changed and it became clear that there were other background issues. I think Williams back room actions over Hughes wanting to interview for the Mags was the start of the entire demise. I doubt we'll ever know the conversations that took place around that Jan transfer window but that was undoubtedly in my mind the turning point of the clubs fortunes.

[thenodrog]

The most sobering thought is that this weakened City side didn't even need to get out of third gear. They cruised through this game against a Blackburn Rovers side who couldn't understand how to compete. We had no recognisable gameplan (I don't regard hoofing it to Di Santo and praying for a miracle a gameplan) and even the changes at half-time were made too late.

C'mon topman the tactics are easy to see... Teams used em against us all the time when we were top dog.

1. We cannot compete individually with teams that cost much more to assemble than ours

2. So therefore play to quieten the crowd and grind down the oppositions enthusiasm. The plan being to get to 70 mins without giving a goal away or at worst going 1 down.

3. Change tactics and personnel to effectively go at em for the last 15.

Unfortunately our squad through injury (and retirement) is woefully weak in midfield with a keeper who treats a football like it is a bar of wet soap. Going 3-0 down is why SA had to change the gameplan at HT.

[Messi422]

451 is absolutely hopeless. Why Sam still play 451 but all of us have seen the result of playing 451.

[Amo]

1. We cannot compete individually with teams that cost much more to assemble than ours.

Yet we should compete as a unit. Need I remind you of Leed's win at OT last week?

2. So therefore play to quieten the crowd and grind down the oppositions enthusiasm. The plan being to get to 70 mins without giving a goal away or at worst going 1 down.

Negative tactics. If you stick men behind the ball and present no attacking edge, you'll get what you deserve. Rovers did last night.

3. Change tactics and personnel to effectively go at em for the last 15.

What if you're 3-0 down by that point?

Unfortunately our squad through injury (and retirement) is woefully weak in midfield with a keeper who treats a football like it is a bar of wet soap. Going 3-0 down is why SA had to change the gameplan at HT.

Sam should have changed it the moment Di Santo was getting crowded out and deprived of support.

[Sparky Marky]

Bored? Try watching us get beaten at the likes of Gigg lane, Gay Meadow, Millmoor and Field Mill. At least last night we were able to watch guys plying their trade that will be going to South Africa with the worlds best this summer. Problem is none play for us.

Silly...I was just thinking, get everyone back off loan...pacy wingers, no pressure....bit like Notts Forest under Billy Davies....It happened before with duffer, dunny etc...

[AggyBlue]

2. So therefore play to quieten the crowd and grind down the oppositions enthusiasm. The plan being to get to 70 mins without giving a goal away or at worst going 1 down.

3. Change tactics and personnel to effectively go at em for the last 15.

451 is absolutely hopeless. Why Sam still play 451 but all of us have seen the result of playing 451.

Perhaps we'd be better starting off 4-6-0 and bring three strikers on for the last 15 minutes

Negative tactics. If you stick men behind the ball and present no attacking edge, you'll get what you deserve. Rovers did last night.

I've always believed in 'Attack is the best form of defence'

[LDRover]

Drog,

We're now in a position that we're damned if we do and damned if we don't and regardless of whether it's a 'hunch' on a new man what our own eyes are telling us is that we're basically @#/? and sinking fast.

With that in mind, should we get 6 points or even 4 in our next 2 league games the chances are that we could beg steal and borrow enough points to stay up, therefore giving Allardyce a stay of execution until the summer when the position would have to be reviewed again. Failure in the next couple of games and chances are we'll be in the bottom 3 and the change will have to be made - I see no alternative.

The list is hardly awe inspiring I agree but I'll ask you, do you think what you're watching is acceptable and showing even the slightest leaning towards survival in this league or even vague improvement and if so , where?

Not sure I agree with your opinion on John Williams getting involved on the playing side, I think he needs to know the players' perception of the manager, although I think it's glaringly obvious when you watch the team play. Also, when how the team performs is the single most important part of his whole business how can he not get involved when things are so obviously going belly up?

You were very vocal in your opinion of Paul Ince and rightly so and I know we're not as bad now, but why are you continuing to defend what is increasingly becoming the indefensible?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Though possibly on my own - I could understand Sam's tactics last night. City are obviously a team that likes to play deep and hit teams on the break - and to be honest they have pace to burn throughout their team.

What I struggle with is the continued use of a single striker. Both Kallanic and Di Santo work their socks off - even if we don't provide midfield support - they could probably create their own chances if paired together, while also defending from the front (something we did so well in the days of Shearer, Newell and Sutton). I can't understand the reticience to play them together.

As for the match - hugely disappointed with City Tv (Sorry ESPN) commentary - yet another broadcaster only interested in the wealthy big city clubs. Lets be honest - I didn't expect a result - and we actually played well in parts. Biggest problem - as it has been all season is the midfield - we look so much better as a team when Grella plays - he would have sacrificied a yellow card and brought down Richards when in midfield rather than letting him run by as Andrews and Nzonzi did. On the subject of Andrews - used to defend him - but it is like playing with 10 men - in fact it is probably worse than that, as he gets in the way :-)

[sambo]

There were more than 400 away fans... That area with the empty seats around us holds 3000 fans.. I'd say there were closer to 1500 than 400, a lot of walk ons too.

[Mattyblue]

There were more than 400 away fans... That area with the empty seats around us holds 3000 fans.. I'd say there were closer to 1500 than 400, a lot of walk ons too.

I'd agree that there was a lot of walk-ons, I bought mine at City, but was there hell 1500 fans there! Maybe 600/700 at most, 3000 seats include the top tier

[sambo]

I'd agree that there was a lot of walk-ons, I bought mine at City, but was there hell 1500 fans there! Maybe 600/700 at most, 3000 seats include the top tier

Yeah I guess, but the top tier is half the size of the lower, and the lower was probably just under 2/3 full?

Maybe 700-1000 is a good guess, but still poor. Not that I blame the fans in the weather (maybe expecting game to be called off - I did until Monday), with the p1ss poor performances and the fact it was likely to be another surrender (right there!). Something is clearly wrong, a few years ago I am sure we would have brought a lot more.

[Mattyblue]

Yeah I guess, but the top tier is half the size of the lower, and the lower was probably just under 2/3 full?

Maybe 700-1000 is a good guess, but still poor. Not that I blame the fans in the weather (maybe expecting game to be called off - I did until Monday), with the p1ss poor performances and the fact it was likely to be another surrender (right there!). Something is clearly wrong, a few years ago I am sure we would have brought a lot more.

I'm not too fussed about the following, we had 5000 at Wigan, 4000 at Bolton, a good number at Hull etc.

Rubbish timing of the game, live tv, fans sick of awful away performances, who can blame the fans?

[sambo]

I'm not too fussed about the following, we had 5000 at Wigan, 4000 at Bolton, a good number at Hull etc.

Rubbish timing of the game, live tv, fans sick of awful away performances, who can blame the fans?

Just seen a picture - definitely only about 700, when you're there it's hard to tell sometimes.

Agreed - surely John Williams and Sam looked at the vast empty seats in the away end and thought something was up>

[champions1995]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but Rovers have collected as many points this term as they did at the same stage last season. 21 points from 21 matches played is poor, although often an average of a point a game will be enough to keep a side up.

[Fife Rover]

Hmm...what would I do...

Firstly, as has been said earlier I'd get Allardyce in first thing and ask him to explain the performances over the past couple of months and why there has been such a poor return of points from games that HE said we had targetted to win.

I'd mention to him the growing unrest within the fans and the fact that it's his 'style' of football that is causing it and that if it was getting results it'd be acceptable but it's not.

I'd question why I allowed myself to be railroaded into buying 3 right backs - one on 40k+ a week who never plays.

I'd ask him why his marquee signing Kalinic never starts games and also why he keeps saying he needs time when he stated himself at the time he was only in the market for players who could come straight in to the side.

I'd then get a delegation of senior players (Nelsen, Dunn, Samba) and try to find out if they really are 'behind' the manager and (more importantly) how they feel about his 'style' of play.

I'd then (in my own mind) give him the next two league games and make a decision based on them.

As for replacements, it's without doubt a tough call and all names are open to ridicule. Clark at Huddersfield and Grayson at Leeds are performing well but follow the failed Ince model, Souness is available but was abysmal here in his final months. Megson , Jewell etc are all failures and shouldn't come anywhere near the club. So, unless we take a punt on Clark, Grayson or even O'Driscoll there's only the foreign route to go down with Jol, Laudrup, Ten Cate or maybe Trappatoni would be interested?? Who knows. Lack of finance is obviously an issue but is our squad any worse than Stoke or even Fulham?

What I do know is that the current malaise cannot be allowed to continue and either Allardyce has to change or he has to be changed. It really is that simple but John Williams has to get involved. Now.

Spot on LD! 100% agree. No sudden knee-jerk reaction but a carefull investigation and analysis by JW is needed NOW!!