[Archived] Enough Is Enough

[BrianPotter]

Watched Monday nights game with a few mates who support various other teams - one being a Newcastle fan. He reckons that rovers are exactly the same as Newcastle were under Allardyce - clueless and totally uncomfortable with the formation and style of football they are being asked to play. He has no man management skills and put him in a position where the players he manages have a little bit of ability then BFS is well and truly snookered. He doesnt have the ability himself to work with players who have certain degree of footballing ability and he doesnt know how to implement a system that suits them.

Following the game it was interesting to get other peoples view on Rovers players, and funnily enough everyone was of the same opinion that on paper Rovers had a good side. No matter which way you look at it if you write the names of the players down we all agreed that there are some good players at Rovers who for some reason are not performing. It seems that even Sam himself still does not know our strongest eleven. Round pegs in square holes was mentioned by numerous people and i think this has been likened to Sams style before.

The bottom line was, sadly, that everyones general opinion was that the problem was the manager. A spurs fan even commented himself that we looked a much better side when McDonald was in charge.

I am not one for pressing the panick button or getting rid of managers but I cant see any other option. The situation is gettting worse not better and there is just no light at the end of the tunnel. I'm even surprised at myself saying this but I think that Sam may have to go.

[DeadlyDirk]

If it's not time for him to go then I'm certainly with the ones that say he has two games to save his job. If it was up to me I'd act sooner rather than later, I really don't like the direction we seem to be headed at the moment and right now I'm not too worried about who comes in, I can't see it being a whole lot worse than the current mess.

The players certainly have to take a lot of the blame because the vast majority have under performed but ultimately it lies with the manager to get the best out of his players, something Allardyce built his reputation on, sadly he doesn't seem to have the same effect these days. Allardyce can feel unlucky because the players have let him down but if there not playing well and not enjoying what they are doing then the buck has to stop with the manager. They may not be the greatest players but the likes of Pedersen, Roberts, Benni, Nelsen, Samba, Emerton have all done well for us at times and the right manager can certainly get more out of them than Sam is getting right now.

The money he's had to spend has been has not been used well, who's he brought in? Givet, Salgado, Diouf, Di Santo, Kalinic, Van Heerden, Jacobsen, Chimbonda, N'Zonzi. Givet and N'Zonzi have been relatively succesful but the rest have been poor or inconsistent at best. Kalinic seems to be showing real promise but never starts and comes off as soon as the half time whistle blows while the likes of Diouf and Pedersen get countless chances without offering much to the team.

Bringing through a couple of the youngsters is a promising sign with Jones, Hoilett and Olsson all featuring a bit but then with the homegrown rule coming in maybe that's through more of a necessity than a desire.

It may be a bit costly to sack the manager and bring in a replacement but we certainly can't afford to replace the whole team that the current manager can't seem to motivate so unless the players show real signs of being behind the manager tomorrow I wouldn't wait until the weekend. Even if we can get someone to take the job for 6 months it might be enough to get us out of this downward spiral we seem to be in.

As I said the players need to take some of the blame for not performing but in my eyes after the honeymoon period was over Sam's made bad signings, used bad tactics and made every excuse in the book for bad results apart from ever looking at himself.

Enough is enough.

[Rovers0411]

He has no man management skills and put him in a position where the players he manages have a little bit of ability then BFS is well and truly snookered. He doesnt have the ability himself to work with players who have certain degree of footballing ability and he doesnt know how to implement a system that suits them.

So explain those comments in the context of the success he acheived at Bolton integrating the talents of players like Anelka, Jay Jay, Campo, El Hierro, Djorkaeff into a team that had 4 successive top 8 finishes and at one point were serious contenders for a top 4 finish. But like he now has at Rovers he had limited resources so it took time to build that team. The football under Hughes was no better for the first 12-18 mths than it is now but fans remained patient. We need to be even more patient now because Sam is working with even less resources than Hughes.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The biggest worry I have is that most the fans calling for the head of Allardyce haven't really considered the bigger picture, and it is in fact Allardyce who has become the scapegoat for all the problems at the club. I don't like the performances at the moment, but unfortunately the team currently consists of 11 of the shittest players to be at the club over the past decade. Only our defenders are worth anything, but they don't put the ball in the net.

The sheer lack of resources to me mean that anything outside the relegation zone should be enough to keep the manager in a job, but I respect and accept that a run like we are currently on should draw pressure towards him.

If we sacked Sam now, every media source and pundit would be calling us every name under the sun, and tbh, there are times where you have to accept that the majority are correct. The weight of the argument coming from long term hecklers and fantasists such as Abbey, who contributes 'one away win and he wasn't here' as a reason to sack Allardyce. And to replace no doubt we'd get the 'Souey and Tugay dream team' crap.

Some fans are turning into disillusion Newcastle/City esque idiots who we've been mocking for the past 20 years, calling for messiahs such as Keegan to return. The truth remains that there is only one man available to us that can be a definitely improvement on Allardyce and that's Hughes. If he says he would come back, then sack the manager right now for all I care, but in the likely event that he won't then I'll stick with what we have please. The Burnley/Bolton shortlists obviously haven't had the same effect on others as they've had on me.

Good post.

We have a number of under performing players, players who don't appear to give a ###### and haven't for years. They have to take some of the blame for our situation as do the money men.

[den]

Following the game it was interesting to get other peoples view on Rovers players, and funnily enough everyone was of the same opinion that on paper Rovers had a good side. No matter which way you look at it if you write the names of the players down we all agreed that there are some good players at Rovers who for some reason are not performing.

Well, in my opinion Brian, that's just plain wrong. This is the poorest squad of players for quite some time - where is the quality?

As for the current situation, well Sam's ideas are plainly not working. Are they going to work? With this squad of players I fear not. We haven't got the type of player that's needed to play Sam's kind of game. He's trying to play the type of game that this squad can't play. Not only that, but I don't think he can assemble that squad at Ewood.

The absolute bottom line for me, is that Sam could be improved on, - smeone else could probably get a little more out of this group of players, but it's battling against the tide while we sell our good players so often and so quickly. No manager can do anything on any kind of permanent basis, while that situation exists.

[tcj_jones]

10 points out of our next 10 games would be an awful return TCJ. Add to this our nightmare run in where we face all the top teams and I reckon that return would see us down.

Here are our remaining fixtures. I think it's best to concentrate on the next six, which are absolutely crucial. I think we need a minimum of eight points from them. Fail to do this, and a change may well be necessary. For me, Bolton at home will be Allardyce's crunch game. If we are sitting on 29 / 30 points with 11 games to go, I think we'll be fine.

Fulham (h)

Wigan (h)

West Ham (a)

Stoke (a)

Hull (h)

Bolton (h)

Liverpool (a)

Birmingham (h)

Spurs (a)

Chelsea (h)

Burnley (a)

Portsmouth (a)

Man United (h)

Everton (h)

Wolves (a)

Arsenal (h)

Villa (a)

[Jackson]

If BS takes us into a relegation scrap, why would he be the best manager to get us out of it, as many are alluding to?

[Hughesy]

Keep chomping on humble pie shillito15 and the rest of the anti Waggy brigade.

Waggy said he didn’t like the man (Bungs) or the manager (style of football) and we’d be looking for a new manager sooner rather than later.

Correct so far I’d say

It doesn't matter who was right and who was wrong.

All that matters is that we come out of this intact and in a position to move forward, preferably in the summer.

And there lies the problem. People who dislike Sam, see it as a great way to say 'Told you so' - its not about proving yourself right, its about the best thing for our club - Blackburn Rovers, Not 'oh well looks like Waggles was right'.

[rebelmswar]

Surely the manager is employed to get the best out of what he's got, I'd say only Andrews out of the first team squad isn't good enough to play in the premiership.

I think this is just a symptom of what we are all suffering from. Andrews was about the same as every other player against City, and if you really put all hatred aside: tried harder than most of them. If we did not have Samba and Nelsen we would be up the creak. I think that the majority of our players are pretty poor at the moment, I have serious doubts if these players would beat a on form Championship side. We seem to think that they are good because they wear our shirt. A good player rises above the crap and that is why an unknown under 21 French player looks so good - because the rest are a turgid bunch.

Allardyce has to work with what he’s got, that’s why we pay him so handsomely, but he’s not doing his job and that’s a real worry.

This here is the main problem. Some managers seem to be able to polish a turd, Sam at the moment cant seem to be able to. Wimbledon under Kinnear was a fine example of miracles with rubbish. I don’t feel Sam can do the same, as his heart does not seem in it.

His man management skills seem to be sadly lacking if Mondays performance was anything to go by/

I agree with this, his slouching posture in the stands is being mirrored by his team on the pitch.

[Hughesy]

I have serious doubts if these players would beat a on form Championship side.

Notts Forest - in the best form - we beat them!

[DE.]

Here are our remaining fixtures. I think it's best to concentrate on the next six, which are absolutely crucial. I think we need a minimum of eight points from them. Fail to do this, and a change may well be necessary. For me, Bolton at home will be Allardyce's crunch game. If we are sitting on 29 / 30 points with 11 games to go, I think we'll be fine.

Fulham (h)

Wigan (h)

West Ham (a)

Stoke (a)

Hull (h)

Bolton (h)

Liverpool (a)

Birmingham (h)

Spurs (a)

Chelsea (h)

Burnley (a)

Portsmouth (a)

Man United (h)

Everton (h)

Wolves (a)

Arsenal (h)

Villa (a)

Considering the look of our last 11 fixtures I'm surprised you'd be comfortable to be on 30 points by that stage... especially considering our away form and our record against the previous 'big' 4

[MarkBRFC71]

And there lies the problem. People who dislike Sam, see it as a great way to say 'Told you so' - its not about proving yourself right, its about the best thing for our club - Blackburn Rovers, Not 'oh well looks like Waggles was right'.

I think if we don't get a minimum of 4 points from the Fulham and Wigan games, the best thing for the club will be to sack BFS. If we have to bring someone else in, they need time to be able to turn things round.

At the moment there are absolutely no signs of things getting better, and lots of indications that they are getting worse.

[rebelmswar]

Notts Forest - in the best form - we beat them!

I am assuming that is dripping with sarcasm.

It was a near run thing.

"Benni McCarthy, Blackburn Rovers' leading scorer last season but more recently relegated to the fringes, opened his account for the current campaign to settle a closely fought tie between a Nottingham Forest side struggling near the foot of the Championship"

Not the best game to use to refute the argument.

[T4E]

Forest are 8 places below us in the league.

The gap is not as big as you suggest.

[tcj_jones]

If you look at the points total required for league survival over the past four seasons - 35, 36, 38, 35 - alongside some of the otehr dross we compete against in the league, then that leaves in a decent enough position.

Considering the lack of suitable alternatives out there, If Alardyce reaches 30 points with 11 games to go, then he shouldn't be sacked. That would be my stance, were I a member of the board. Let's see where we stand after the Bolton game. If he's to be sacked, this is when it should come.

[Stuart]

And that nutter Vinjay manages to get his say in on the end of Nicko's article in the Mirror. He's still a complete loon.

His comment has got 50 (FIFTY) "recommends" by people agreeing with him.

Maybe he's just useless at writing macros...

[bellamy11]

Here are our remaining fixtures. I think it's best to concentrate on the next six, which are absolutely crucial. I think we need a minimum of eight points from them. Fail to do this, and a change may well be necessary. For me, Bolton at home will be Allardyce's crunch game. If we are sitting on 29 / 30 points with 11 games to go, I think we'll be fine.

Fulham (h)

Wigan (h)

West Ham (a)

Stoke (a)

Hull (h)

Bolton (h)

Liverpool (a)

Birmingham (h)

Spurs (a)

Chelsea (h)

Burnley (a)

Portsmouth (a)

Man United (h)

Everton (h)

Wolves (a)

Arsenal (h)

Villa (a)

I'd be genuinely concerned if we go into that final stretch on 30 points. Where are the 10 points coming from? Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, United, Arsenal and Villa are practically write-offs given our record against the top teams. Burnley and Pompey will be fighting for their lives and both can be very tasty at home. We're absolutely relying on 6 points from the Brum and Everton games, which is possible, but again difficult to see in light of home performances against the likes of Stoke and Sunderland - very similar teams.

In poor form it's always easy to wonder where the next win is coming from so things probably won't be as bad as that, but the case remains - right now I wouldn't fancy us to get 10 points from those 11 games. And if we rely on the poor form of those around us we may be in trouble, because there aren't many teams right now who seem to have such little stomach for a fight as our boys.

[BrianPotter]

So explain those comments in the context of the success he acheived at Bolton integrating the talents of players like Anelka, Jay Jay, Campo, El Hierro, Djorkaeff into a team that had 4 successive top 8 finishes and at one point were serious contenders for a top 4 finish. But like he now has at Rovers he had limited resources so it took time to build that team. The football under Hughes was no better for the first 12-18 mths than it is now but fans remained patient. We need to be even more patient now because Sam is working with even less resources than Hughes.

I'll try but its difficult to get what I'm trying to say across in writing. Allardyce was at Bolton for 8 years, in that time he brought them back up from Divsion One (as it was at the time) to the Prem and over a sustained period built them up from a low level to an established prem team, which he did with a reputation for doing so with a limited squad whilst bringing in a big name player or two along the way (all be it usually for a short period of time). The difference for me here is the same issue as when he went to Newcastle, Rovers are already an established prem side who have had some good finishes themselves over the last few years. Allardyce has come into a club that are pretty much already at the level he peaked at with Bolton. What I'm trying to say is that is this where his ability ends? If Rovers had suffered a few years in the championship or continuously at the wrong end of the table then Allardyce would have been a great long term solution to establish us a prem club again. But we dont need that, Souness and more so Hughes have already done that for Rovers - we need someone that can keep us at that that level (I wont say push us on futher as I dont think with our current restraints we can do) and I'm just not sure Allardyce can do that.

I understand your point about the quality players he intergrated at bolton, but that was one or two players in a side with 8 other average players who wanted to play for him. If the rumours I've heard are true about what happened on Monday night, that is no longer the case with Rovers.

In response to your comments about Hughes, I would agree that at times (particulary early on) we didnt play great football but we DID still get results, and certainly didnt turn in performances like we have done under allardyce. Under allardyce the football its not the appalling football its the results that concern me coupled with a number of horrendous performances we've had this season.

Looking at Sams signings realistically you cant say that he hasnt been backed in the transfer market. Without even thinking about it we have £7m striker who cant even get a start, and its no good saying hes one for the future or long term - with our financial constraints we cant have the luxury of investing £7m in a player for the future, we need ones who can make an immediate impact. Then there's salgado, sam twisted the board and trustees arms on that to make it happen - then he rarely plays him. Diouf is another one, hes been generally appalling since Sam insisted we had to bring him in.

I honsetly want him to succeed, but for me there is just too much stacking up against him.

I'm sure that certain people in Jersey are looking very closely at what is going on at Rovers, and beleive me if they feel hes not up to the job they will react accordingly.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Given the run-in, it is clear that we don't have half a season to get safe, we have a quarter of a season that starts on Sunday.

That being the case, it would be madness to start a manager search as by the time he is in and has learned the players names, we'll be into the run-in. We need someone who already knows the players, their strengths, has their respect and is flexible enough to adopt a formation that uses the best of what we have. I thought I saw in the Bolton game a mutual respect between McDonald and the players to suggest that he fits the bill on a caretaker business.

All we need to stay safe for this season is play a 4-4-2 passing game, using what little pace we have (2 from Junior, Olssen and Chimp on the left; Emerton and Jacobsen on the right); 2 from Dunny, Grella and N'Zonzi in the middle and, though it pains me to say it, Benni and Roberts up front. Hell, even a caretaker player-manager could do that. And then spend the next 4 months taking proper soundings in the game as to who our next manager should be.

[BrianPotter]

Well, in my opinion Brian, that's just plain wrong. This is the poorest squad of players for quite some time - where is the quality?

As for the current situation, well Sam's ideas are plainly not working. Are they going to work? With this squad of players I fear not. We haven't got the type of player that's needed to play Sam's kind of game. He's trying to play the type of game that this squad can't play. Not only that, but I don't think he can assemble that squad at Ewood.

The absolute bottom line for me, is that Sam could be improved on, - smeone else could probably get a little more out of this group of players, but it's battling against the tide while we sell our good players so often and so quickly. No manager can do anything on any kind of permanent basis, while that situation exists.

I'm not saying that this is the strongest squad we've had, far from it and to be honest I was trying to get other non rovers fans views across rather than our own that can sometimes become a bit clouded because we are so close to the situation.

I was making the point that five or six people (non of whom support Rovers) felt that our squad was far better than our league position and performances are showing. They all said the same thing, the players do not look comfortable with the system. They were pointing out players such as Salgado, Diouf, Dunn, McCarthy, Givet, Pedersen, Di Santo all of whom they reckoned were decent footballers and too good to be playing the style of football we currently are.

I just dont think that our squad is sutied to Sams style and unfortunatly thats the only way he knows.

[gumboots]

Given the run-in, it is clear that we don't have half a season to get safe, we have a quarter of a season that starts on Sunday.

That being the case, it would be madness to start a manager search as by the time he is in and has learned the players names, we'll be into the run-in. We need someone who already knows the players, their strengths, has their respect and is flexible enough to adopt a formation that uses the best of what we have. I thought I saw in the Bolton game a mutual respect between McDonald and the players to suggest that he fits the bill on a caretaker business.

All we need to stay safe for this season is play a 4-4-2 passing game, using what little pace we have (2 from Junior, Olssen and Chimp on the left; Emerton and Jacobsen on the right); 2 from Dunny, Grella and N'Zonzi in the middle and, though it pains me to say it, Benni and Roberts up front. Hell, even a caretaker player-manager could do that. And then spend the next 4 months taking proper soundings in the game as to who our next manager should be.

As you say the longer we leave it the greater the chance is of the damage being irreparable. As has been said elsewhere, things could suddenly click and we could find ourselves much more comfortable in a few weeks time, but equally they could go even more pearshaped and we could be really struggling with players who are even more demoralised than they already look and then who will be able to pick them up and push, coax, cajole, inspire them over the line. Last year Newcastle gave Shearer 8 games. He made no impression for a whole host of reasons one of which was possibly that by then the players had accepted relegation as inevitable even if only subconsciously. I don't want our players to be in that situation.

[tcj_jones]

I'd be genuinely concerned if we go into that final stretch on 30 points. Where are the 10 points coming from? Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, United, Arsenal and Villa are practically write-offs given our record against the top teams. Burnley and Pompey will be fighting for their lives and both can be very tasty at home. We're absolutely relying on 6 points from the Brum and Everton games, which is possible, but again difficult to see in light of home performances against the likes of Stoke and Sunderland - very similar teams.

In poor form it's always easy to wonder where the next win is coming from so things probably won't be as bad as that, but the case remains - right now I wouldn't fancy us to get 10 points from those 11 games. And if we rely on the poor form of those around us we may be in trouble, because there aren't many teams right now who seem to have such little stomach for a fight as our boys.

I'm not necessarily advocating this as a points target, but more the base amount that Allardyce needs to retain his job, because the situation would be far from desperate. I wouldn't feel comfortable, but I'd feel terrified were we not to pick up those points.

The way the likes of Pompey, Hull, Bolton, West Ham, Wigan, Burnley and Wolves are going right now, the total points required to stay in the league will be below 40. I'd anticipate it being between 35 - 38. 8 points from those 11 games is certainly achievable. Again, it is a risky situation to be in, but sacking Allardyce would represent a bigger risk.

[rebelmswar]

Forest are 8 places below us in the league.

The gap is not as big as you suggest.

I suggest nothing about gaps I said with our bunch of players we would be lucky to win against and in form Championship side.

He posted the Forest game as an example, when we played them they were in the bottom of the Championship.

We won by one goal and had to save a penalty and on that night the bar was also our friend.

If we feel satisfied by that as an example we are certainly in dire straights.

I supported Sam from the get go and pray he can pull this around, but with the players at the moment and their supposed disillusion with the playing style: we are in rough waters in a leaking boat.

We either need to spend some money on repairs or replace the Captain and abandon ship.

[Hughesy]

I have serious doubts if these players would beat a on form Championship side.

Notts Forest - in the best form - we beat them!

I am assuming that is dripping with sarcasm.

It was a near run thing.

Not the best game to use to refute the argument.

You never said anything about near-run - simply that you had doubts if we would beat an on form side - we did!

[alexanders]

I said with our bunch of players we would be lucky to win against and in form Championship side.

We did beat our neighbours!