[Archived] Enough Is Enough

[Dan]

Speaking to quite a few Citeh fans and they all tell me that Monday night was the worst they've seen us play against them. They agreed with me the football was awful and don't understand what we were actually trying to achieve by lumping it up to Di Santo. They never expected such an easy game. This is how bad we've become. Most of us on here knew EXACTLY how we were going to play as soon as the team was announced.

Please can the pro Allardyce brigade tell me who they think we'll beat using our managers one and only game plan? We are so easy to defend against, most average defenders will deal with our long balls without breaking a sweat. We also put pressure on our selves because we never keep the ball for more than a few passes. I can't see us beating any team, with Sams woefull 'tactics'.

[bellamy11]

You never said anything about near-run - simply that you had doubts if we would beat an on form side - we did!

1 win in 8 league games at the time they played us. It was AFTER the Rovers game that they picked up some form.

Humorously, I remember rover6 at the time telling us afterwards how we wouldn't be so lucky against Peterborough because they were a better team than Forest!

[dulwich]

You never said anything about near-run - simply that you had doubts if we would beat an on form side - we did!

How about current form? I think that's what we're dealing with here.

[beerwins]

I am always one for giving credit where credit is due and like to give everybody a fair chance but I cant really understand the loyalty some feel towards Sam, yes he kept us up by tightening the defence and focussing on winnable fixtures but I feel an even bigger part was to open up the darwen end to home fans im sure that wasnt his plan.

This season he started with awfull transfer dealings, letting Tugay go without replacing him, Nzonzi the pick of the bunch but is far too inexperienced to be relied upon as a main figure yet, not signing a left back and signing 3 right backs is the worst decision by far, Givet is a centre back cover he is terrible at left back and putting chimbonda there is too predictable the guy is predominantly right footed, Kalinic well where to start with this guy is he good? who knows he never gets a full game and if he does get on its usually a tactical change that comes with him.

We have had to watch some seriously bad stuff this year even the wins we had werent very convincing wolves being about the best and the way we get beat away from home is just plain abysmal, Sams attitude of my way or the highway doesnt work with the modern day primadonnas and changes needed making before christmas.

I am not one for advocating the sacking of managers apart from Ince because he wasnt even a manager but what do you do? Sams style and tactics plain and simple do not work here and the man is too stubborn to change. I am sure barely any fans are calling for Sams head because they dont like the guy we just want to see him change his ways, put fire in the team, and get players playing, Mcdonald managed to get the players fired up why cant Sam?

City midweek was the perfect match to see how Sam is one dimensional in his games, how did they beat us so easily? simple they played the exact same way as us they stood off us and let us come at them and we didnt have a clue how to do that then they hit on on the counter with pace, they have the players to do that we dont.

Sam is his own worst enemy with his stubborn streak and imo is sacking himself.

[Hughesy]

..........ooops wrong place

[koi]

We have a totally different Sam to what Bolton had. In those days he lived every kick of the game, constantly pushing the players. These days he manages via t'lappy n bluetooth theadset. Maybe his health is catching him up?

[mellison24]

For me, Allardyce has the next 4 games to save himself (plus the League cup games). If he performs inadequately in those, then it'll be time for a change. It will cost money to sack him and his minions, so we must look at people good on a small budget. Only the likes of Hughes, Keith Hill and Ian Holloway spring to mind. The latter 2 I 'm not sure could hack it in the Premier League and we have little, if any, chance of getting Hughes back. I fear for our club if Sam doesn't turn it round quick, I really do.

[tcj_jones]

Mellison, you say Sam has four games to save his job, then openly admit that there are no alternatives out there to appoint...

Only slightly undercutting your own argument there!

[mellison24]

Mellison, you say Sam has four games to save his job, then openly admit that there are no alternatives out there to appoint...

Only slightly undercutting your own argument there!

That was a deliberate attempt to show how dire the situation feels right now. We have to rely on Allardyce, with no other option (as far as I can see), hence I fear for the club. Even if Allardyce were to keep us up, I'd start looking at other options in the summer.

[Iceman]

Mellison, you say Sam has four games to save his job, then openly admit that there are no alternatives out there to appoint...

Only slightly undercutting your own argument there!

Tcj, i think its obvious that there are no suitable candidates, to replace Sam. That is the problem Mellison, is trying to point out. We in a dodgy position as a club, because a wrong move now could end in disaster.

[broadsword]

Maybe his health is catching him up?

It's a fair point, and he has looked like a beaten man at times.

[dulwich]

I think Mellinson is being generous when he gives him 4 games. It's 2 at most for me, and I think that it generous.

I cannot believe that there won't be a manager out there, that will be willing to come, that will be able to set us up better as a team, will give us some shape, some direction, some tactics, some fighting spirit, and will be able to get more out of what we already have.

If that man is in the lower league's, then so be it. I will not believe that Allardyce is the only man capable of "keeping us up".

[Iceman]

It's a fair point, and he has looked like a beaten man at times.

Thats the understatement of the year Bryan. Ive watched him, listened to him and its clear he aint healthy.

[PAFELL]

For me, Allardyce has the next 4 games to save himself (plus the League cup games). If he performs inadequately in those, then it'll be time for a change. It will cost money to sack him and his minions, so we must look at people good on a small budget. Only the likes of Hughes, Keith Hill and Ian Holloway spring to mind. The latter 2 I 'm not sure could hack it in the Premier League and we have little, if any, chance of getting Hughes back. I fear for our club if Sam doesn't turn it round quick, I really do.

I would consider letting Sam go now and allow Neil Macdonald to see what he could do.

[Iceman]

I think Mellinson is being generous when he gives him 4 games. It's 2 at most for me, and I think that it generous.

I cannot believe that there won't be a manager out there, that will be willing to come, that will be able to set us up better as a team, will give us some shape, some direction, some tactics, some fighting spirit, and will be able to get more out of what we already have.

If that man is in the lower league's, then so be it. I will not believe that Allardyce is the only man capable of "keeping us up".

I think there are loads of quality managers out there. Jol and Bilic spring to mind, Van Gaal and Sven. However, we just cant match their ambition and we cant give them money to spend on players.

[mellison24]

I think Mellinson is being generous when he gives him 4 games. It's 2 at most for me, and I think that it generous.

I cannot believe that there won't be a manager out there, that will be willing to come, that will be able to set us up better as a team, will give us some shape, some direction, some tactics, some fighting spirit, and will be able to get more out of what we already have.

If that man is in the lower league's, then so be it. I will not believe that Allardyce is the only man capable of "keeping us up".

If you are looking for fighting as a team, on a low budget, get more out of what we have, I'd look no further than Mr. Holloway. He's done well in every job he's had bar Leicester. I'd have him here easily, but would he cut it in this league? Although I guess his motivation to prove himself by finallty getting his chance in this league might be a good thing. He'd be my choice after Hughes........my god, we have no hope.

[Amo]

It's a fair point, and he has looked like a beaten man at times.

I said as much in my first post in this topic. I think his health problems have sapped his passion and focus for the job.

[Silencio]

If you are looking for fighting as a team, on a low budget, get more out of what we have, I'd look no further than Mr. Holloway. He's done well in every job he's had bar Leicester. I'd have him here easily, but would he cut it in this league? Although I guess his motivation to prove himself by finallty getting his chance in this league might be a good thing. He'd be my choice after Hughes........my god, we have no hope.

Your getting worse with every post you make...

[mellison24]

Your getting worse with every post you make...

I'm trying to illustrate how bad I think things are at the moment ffs! Tell me an affordable manager that you would bring in other than Hughes. I think our best hope is to delve into the lower leagues myself.

[tcj_jones]

Tcj, i think its obvious that there are no suitable candidates, to replace Sam. That is the problem Mellison, is trying to point out. We in a dodgy position as a club, because a wrong move now could end in disaster.

Fair dos, I didn't realize.

I would consider letting Sam go now and allow Neil Macdonald to see what he could do.

I know the line-ups, subs and the team spirit during Mac's games contrast strikingly with those of Allardyce, but isn't he still a disciple of Sam's style of football? I'm not sure he'd really change things up a whole lot.

[gumboots]

I'm trying to illustrate how bad I think things are at the moment ffs! Tell me an affordable manager that you would bring in other than Hughes. I think our best hope is to delve into the lower leagues myself.

The problem is that we all know where that got us last time!

[BPF]

Man United (h)

Everton (h)

Wolves (a)

Arsenal (h)

Villa (a)

Those last five games could very possibly spell relegation for us. My heart sank when I saw that. The thing that people are overlooking in all this, is that although we are bad, we are playing far worse than we actually are. I have never known a time when I have took such constant abuse for rival supporters for being the clear 'joke of the Premiership'. It is gutting and I can't defend it. On paper, we are much better than many teams around us in the league. The truth is that if we had a manager who:

i) Seemed to have any interest

ii) Learned from mistakes

iii) Was a big enough 'expert' to see the signs

then we would have more points than we find ourselves on. He saved us last season but we played a very desperate football and had enough luck to push us through. This season we go into every game as if we are a League One side playing Chelsea, hoping and praying we could just steal something on a break.

John Williams has a very big decision to make. From the stories that have come out of the club, it would appear as though he is losing the team as well as the supporters. The fact is that if we don't accumulate points in double figures in the next few games then we are going down. Does Williams sacrifice transfers to get a manager in now and hopefully pick up some points before we meet the big boys at the end of the season, or do we wait until we are in serious trouble and give the new guy little hope?

[mellison24]

The problem is that we all know where that got us last time!

Yes, but at least Holloway has experience. He dealt on a low budget at every club he's managed. He's a good man-manager and plays solid, but passing football. that is what people generally want on here, so it was just a suggestion. I don't mind being in the minority, but he (imo) would make us perform a damned sight better than we currently are. The likes of Coppell, Curbishley etc do not appeal at all. Only the similar choices that Burnley had are realistic choices. I have stated I would take Hugheas before anyone else, mind.

[Silencio]

I'm trying to illustrate how bad I think things are at the moment ffs! Tell me an affordable manager that you would bring in other than Hughes. I think our best hope is to delve into the lower leagues myself.

You don't need to illustrate it we already know. How does suggesting another inadequate manager take over illustrate anything?

If we were to sack SA then we should only look at managers who would take a contract until the end of the season. We can then look for something long term in the summer.

I would be looking at these guys for a firefighting job:

Trappatoni

George Graham (old school but I think he would ensure we stayed up)

Hughes (unlikely)

Curbishley (don't like him much but he could do the job until the end of the season)

[broadsword]

Problem is that we'd have to take someone out of work, or working at a lower level (so, not much compensation to pay) or give Neil McDonald a try (who's got a sacking at Carlisle on his CV I think, but at least he doesn't appear to be the out-and-out f-wit that Matthias was).

There's only proven mediocrities/ failures out there for managers who've performed in the prem before. Going for someone managing at a lower level would obviously be a risk, but they still play the same ball-game.

It depends how the players feel about Neil Mc, if they'd run through walls for him, then I'd be tempted to keep him as caretaker until the end of the season. If not, we need someone with progressive ideas (so probably someone young), ambitious, got some brains in his head. There must be someone out there, and whether they're managing at a lower level or not I suspect they'd be better than keeping someone in charge who's not fully into the job, whom the players don't want to play for, who signs players for big money and then promptly not play them, who doesn't know his best team, who has difficulty forging working relationships and pulling an organisation together, who may have had his motivation sapped by heart problems and who has only one tactical plan which the players don't want to follow and the fans don't want to watch. Because I think that's who we've got now, and having written all of that down there's only one solution and that is that he must go.

It's that bad that we can't keep him on because there's no clear successor, because who comes after him can barely do worse.

He'd go with my thanks for last season and best wishes for the future, and there's genuinely no hard feelings whatsoever, it's nothing personal Sam. BUT HE MUST GO FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB.