[Archived] Enough Is Enough

[Tom]

I've worked it out, there is only one man for the job

[Miker]

No better than Ince, yes we are not blessed with quality but Allardyce is getting NOTHING out of the players at his disposal.

Some more points for perspective:

-He dropped Pedersen for a few games, brought him back on and he now has 2 goals in 2 games

-He's freshened up an old squad by bringing in Kalinic, Di Santo, Hoilett, and N'zonzi who have been regulars. He is keeping faith in products of our academy as well in Olsson and Jones, Olsson in particular has done better under Sam than previous seasons.

-Before Dunn got injured again, he was getting top form out of him.

-He sold Warnock for big money and released Ooijer (who was aging and on high wages) with the cheaper alternatives in Chimbonda and Jacobsen who have both done fairly well.

-He's kept injuries to a minimum, and while we've had problems with the same players (Dunn/Grella), it's nowhere near to the same horrid extent as previous seasons, especially under Ince.

-From where I'm sitting, he's bringing more financial stability to the club by signing players on the cheap and still managing to do a half decent job with them.

-His tactics may be suspect and fail him in the first half of matches, but his flexibility in changing things around, both tactically and formation wise means he's not afraid to experiment and try to correct his mistakes. The fact that we've rescued more points than any other club besides Chelsea, is testament to the determination we have in the squad to not just give up. The fact that we scored against Man City at 3-0 down shows that, as have goals on other occasions as well.

Oh wait, no one actually cares about any positives under Sam. I just wasted my time writing that...

[PAFELL]

Time for a poll?

Ok tactics aside, it is not the manager. What manager could turn Rovers into a successful team at this moment in time/ Sadly because of the restraints, money wise, even the best manager in the world couldn't change things - apart from getting the current squad to play better - because their confidence looks shattered to me.

The lack of support from wealthy owners is rovers problem.

[Muddboy]

Can't see John Williams having the balls to push Sam out, at all.

Sam is the sort of person that intimidates people very easily and I think he's got JW under his spell.

Besides, JW appointed him and Ince and there's no way he'll admit to getting it wrong twice.

Surely if Sam has to go, so does JW?

[ultrablue]

Sadly because of the restraints, money wise, even the best manager in the world couldn't change things - apart from getting the current squad to play better - because their confidence looks shattered to me.

Exactly! This is not the man to get the best out of the club we are! We don't expect miracles, but we expect football!

[MeanGreenMachine]

Sav as manager would not only be hilarious but amazing aswell

[greco82]

I don't post many responses on here, more of a lurker, but after watching tonights game on espn i feel inclined to say something. I thought it was embarrassing! city fans were laughing at our wayward passes, rovers fans were booing our own players (andrews, again!) and the defending for the first couple of goals was sunday league at best!

i don't know if its the players at fault or allardyce's but at the minute we're on a hiding to nowhere. either somethings gotta give or we get relegated, thats the way i see it.

Pundits can say all they want about how good tevez's last goal was, but for him to get that opportunity in the first place our defensive throw-in was straight to one of city's players on the edge of the box, unacceptable at this level

[T4E]

Posted this on the Sam thread but Setanta can't get an interview with Sam as weve boarded ourselves in the dressing room..not even JW can get in according to them.

Sounds like fireworks.

Hope they're giving him a right good kicking.

[Mr. E]

Can't see John Williams having the balls to push Sam out, at all.

Sam is the sort of person that intimidates people very easily and I think he's got JW under his spell.

Besides, JW appointed him and Ince and there's no way he'll admit to getting it wrong twice.

Surely if Sam has to go, so does JW?

At the time Ince and BFS looked like logical decisions. JW hasn't done anything wrong - but he sacked Ince when he needed to, and now he has to do the same to BFS.

[broadsword]

That would be funny, if the players boarded the dressing room door up

[doctorryan]

Absolute rubbish. Why should they pump money into your hobby / my hobby? It's not their bloody hobby.

No it's not their hobby. It is their bloody highest profile property worldwide however and letting it go into the crapper makes them look like idiots. It's one thing to decide not to throw bucket loads of cash at an entity with no reasonable expectation of positive returns. It is another thing entirely however to allow that said entity, valued at millions of pounds, to fall into a state of disrepair by being neglectful. And that is how I would characterize the behavior of the Trustees of the multi-billion pound 1987 Jack Walker Settlement.

[Steve Moss]

Some more points for perspective:

-He dropped Pedersen for a few games, brought him back on and he now has 2 goals in 2 games

-He's freshened up an old squad by bringing in Kalinic, Di Santo, Hoilett, and N'zonzi who have been regulars. He is keeping faith in products of our academy as well in Olsson and Jones, Olsson in particular has done better under Sam than previous seasons.

-Before Dunn got injured again, he was getting top form out of him.

-He sold Warnock for big money and released Ooijer (who was aging and on high wages) with the cheaper alternatives in Chimbonda and Jacobsen who have both done fairly well.

-He's kept injuries to a minimum, and while we've had problems with the same players (Dunn/Grella), it's nowhere near to the same horrid extent as previous seasons, especially under Ince.

-From where I'm sitting, he's bringing more financial stability to the club by signing players on the cheap and still managing to do a half decent job with them.

-His tactics may be suspect and fail him in the first half of matches, but his flexibility in changing things around, both tactically and formation wise means he's not afraid to experiment and try to correct his mistakes. The fact that we've rescued more points than any other club besides Chelsea, is testament to the determination we have in the squad to not just give up. The fact that we scored against Man City at 3-0 down shows that, as have goals on other occasions as well.

Oh wait, no one actually cares about any positives under Sam. I just wasted my time writing that...

Don't sell yourself short, Miker. You're making a lot of sense.

And I think Sam needs to replicate the MGP experiment with a few more senior players. With these results, no one should feel safe in their job (including Sam).

Go with a 4-3-3, with Hoilet-Di Santo-Kalinic up top, N'Zonzi-Dunn-Emerton in the midfield, Jacobsen-Samba-Jones-Givet as defenders, and Brown or Fielding in goal, is the way to go for the next few games. Make the more established players sweat brinks for the next few weeks.

[Dan]

(This was meant for Topman's thread, but looks like it's been deleted, so I'll post here)

Stats for some perspective:

Poor runs of form in the past 3 seasons

Under Hughes (Nov3-Dec27)

W1 D3 L5 - 6 points in 9 games

Under Ince (Oct4-Dec13)

W0 D3 L8 - 3 points in 11 games

Under Sam (Nov25-Jan11)

W0 D5 L4 - 5 points in 9 games

Topman highlighted our problems well, but if sacking Sam is the answer then I don't agree. One of these threads or conversations about Sam "having to go NOW" (or something related to that) starts up every time we lose a game by 2 goals or more. So, honestly, we might as well sack Sam because it's just ridiculous. He's had no backing from the fans since day 1. People were on his back from pre-season and don't try to deny it. So just fire him because we can't go on with this. Bring in another manager, who will keep us up and then fans can turn on that guy again next season when he has no money to improve the squad and we're left with the same problems as under Sam.

The solution to all this of course, is to hire a team of hot female porn stars for managers who will offer hot sex to the players if they win games. Hey it's a bit unorthodox, but it's not any more ridiculous than some of the suggestions given here in the past.

Are you related to Sam? You seem to be defending the undefendable.

Don't sell yourself short, Miker. You're making a lot of sense.

And I think Sam needs to replicate the MGP experiment with a few more senior players. With these results, no one should feel safe in their job (including Sam).

Go with a 4-3-3, with Hoilet-Di Santo-Kalinic up top, N'Zonzi-Dunn-Emerton in the midfield, Jacobsen-Samba-Jones-Givet as defenders, and Brown or Fielding in goal, is the way to go for the next few games. Make the more established players sweat brinks for the next few weeks.

Givet is ###### at left back though.

[Steve Moss]

Givet is ###### at left back though.

He is a weak link at present. Would Chimbonda do better? If so, then feel free. Left back and the midfield are the areas I would concentrate on, if I were Sam.

[Miker]

Argh ###### internet made me lose my post.

TCO, to answer your post. I don't take any offence from what you've said, but don't disregard the fact that I pay for cable TV to watch the games and have an annual subscription to listen to them when I can't. The fact that I have to stay up til 2 or 4 in the morning, or get up at 7am on a weekend to watch the game is a huge inconvenience to me given I am a full time student doing a double degree, working 30 hours a week. It's not like I have nothing better to do with my nights and mornings than spend them watching us get hammered, but I do it anyway.

I feel just as violated as anyone else here when we lose and I completely agree, enough is enough, so sack him. Simply put, if you don't support a manager from the start, he is doomed to fail. I'm not defending the undefendable, I'm making a point of the fact that the people spouting off after our 2-0 loss to Man City at the start of the season have been calling for Sam's head after every loss since. I've commented on that fact for months now because it's impossible for anyone to work under those conditions. Some of the posters actually want us to fail, just because they want to see Sam fail. Give me a break

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Utterly embarrassing shambles....

I felt despair tonight watching the dreadful embarrassing (but all too predictable) shambles on the pitch at Eastlands. I'm sick of watching such appalling dire dross. This season we've been an absolute disgrace in a number of matches this season and we've clearly got a huge battle on our hands to stay in the Premier League.

It's currently no wins in our last nine Premier League games and I think it's now just one away win in our last 16 away matches, stretching back to last March. That's relegation form. Big Sam likes to take the credit when he wins a match. Isn't it time now that the 'expert' also took full responsibility for our current abysmal run of form?

Big Sam the Caveman has alienated a large section of supporters with his ghastly neanderthal football and I fear he may be alienating some of the players as well.

Take a look at the full list of our away results this season:

Sunderland 2 Blackburn 1

Everton 3 Blackburn 0

Arsenal 6 Blackburn 2

Chelsea 5 Blackburn 0

Man United 2 Blackburn 0

Bolton 0 Blackburn 2 (The one good away result and performance all season - Neil McDonald was in charge.)

Fulham 3 Blackburn 0

Hull 0 Blackburn 0

Birmingham 2 Blackburn 1

Wigan 1 Blackburn 1

Man City 4 Blackburn 1

In our eleven away matches so far this season it's been one win, two draws and eight defeats away from home. 28 goals conceded in 11 away matches. Your tactics are failing, Mr Expert.

We are a shambles, particularly away from home. I think a large number of supporters have lost all faith and confidence that we can put up a decent fight against teams like Man City away from home - hence the very poor away attendance at Eastlands tonight.

Fans are voting with their feet and they don't like the current inept tactics and horrendous football under Big Sam.

A large number of supporters clearly now have the attitude: "Why should I spend my hard-earned money to travel away from home to watch an almost inevitable defeat and capitulation with such dreadful football served up by Big Sam".

Make no mistake, these are desperate times for our football club and we're playing desperate football.

[tony gale's mic]

Absolute rubbish. Why should they pump money into your hobby / my hobby? It's not their bloody hobby.

Because it was Jack's hobby and it's his money they're dealing with.

Noone's asking for tens of millions of pounds a season investment and a tilt at the title again, but £3 million a season when the value of their asset is in danger of slipping severely coupled with our track record of having players double/triple/quadruple in value is surely common sense even if we leave Jack's wishes aside?

[bobbarton]

Some more points for perspective:

-He dropped Pedersen for a few games, brought him back on and he now has 2 goals in 2 games

-He's freshened up an old squad by bringing in Kalinic, Di Santo, Hoilett, and N'zonzi who have been regulars. He is keeping faith in products of our academy as well in Olsson and Jones, Olsson in particular has done better under Sam than previous seasons.

-Before Dunn got injured again, he was getting top form out of him.

-He sold Warnock for big money and released Ooijer (who was aging and on high wages) with the cheaper alternatives in Chimbonda and Jacobsen who have both done fairly well.

-He's kept injuries to a minimum, and while we've had problems with the same players (Dunn/Grella), it's nowhere near to the same horrid extent as previous seasons, especially under Ince.

-From where I'm sitting, he's bringing more financial stability to the club by signing players on the cheap and still managing to do a half decent job with them.

-His tactics may be suspect and fail him in the first half of matches, but his flexibility in changing things around, both tactically and formation wise means he's not afraid to experiment and try to correct his mistakes. The fact that we've rescued more points than any other club besides Chelsea, is testament to the determination we have in the squad to not just give up. The fact that we scored against Man City at 3-0 down shows that, as have goals on other occasions as well.

Oh wait, no one actually cares about any positives under Sam. I just wasted my time writing that...

HERE HERE.....

Sam has had to sell to keep us afloat ..... look at ALL the other sides strugglin with bigger gates or catchment area.... we beat the dingles semis in one cup and post christmas not in the relegation zone..lets getb realistic we are NOT a big club.... although it wud be nice to be a small town in Europe again..

C-mon get behind the Lads !!!!!!!!!

[deftangel]

Miker makes some good points. I agree with most of them actually.

But Sam persists in having the team aimlessly hoof balls up field most of the time. It is as predictable and uneffective as it is soul destroying for the fans.

A team that has the likes of Dunn, Benni, Di Santo, Holliet, Chimbonda and others should be able to string a few passes together. They are not complete no-hopers like Mokoena or Andrews.

Individual successes asides, he is not collectively getting enough out of the current crop of players. I would venture that is because the team lacks direction. Sam wants to play a certain way, doesn't have the players nor the resources to build a team in that fashion. He knows it, the players know it yet we're muddling through anyway.

Like I said, we can put up this for a couple of years until eventually he's able to make *his* way stick, or you know, try and build our play round the players we have (and to an extent, he's bought).

I thought he wanted to prove he wasn't just a one-trick pony when he came here. I'm not seeing much commitment from him in proving that.

[PAFELL]

Can't see John Williams having the balls to push Sam out, at all.

Sam is the sort of person that intimidates people very easily and I think he's got JW under his spell.

Besides, JW appointed him and Ince and there's no way he'll admit to getting it wrong twice.

Surely if Sam has to go, so does JW?

Sorry but |i cannot blame JW. He did have the courage to try Ince, it failed and he was sacked. At the time Ince was worth a try - but in my view, should have been sacked earlier - but I think others stopped JW doing that - i think the trustees tied his hands on that subject. With regards to Sam he was, at the time. the right man to keep Rovers up - the players and the supporters believed in him - this all helped. The trust should have backed Mark Hughes a lot more -but JW is not the problem - he is just obeying orders from other people - the Walker trustees.

[DE.]

I'm not defending the undefendable, I'm making a point of the fact that the people spouting off after our 2-0 loss to Man City at the start of the season have been calling for Sam's head after every loss since. I've commented on that fact for months now because it's impossible for anyone to work under those conditions. Some of the posters actually want us to fail, just because they want to see Sam fail. Give me a break

You're right, some people have been on Sam's back since the beginning and were always going to be calling for his head at times like this.

However, I'm now seeing a number of generally level-headed posters also calling for Sam to go, and that says something. I supported him against a tidal wave of negativity last year when practically everybody said we were going down, and until this game I've still believed he could turn it around.

However, I've had enough. This has to end, and if Sam won't change his ways then he has to leave. Nobody can claim to know what is going on behind the scenes, but judging from what we've seen on the pitch recently, the players have lost confidence in Sam's methods. If he has lost the dressing room, there is no way back.

[47er]

In light of tonight's 4-1 capitulation against Man. City, Big Sam's side have now managed 8 league games without a win. My patience with the man in charge is wearing painstakingly thin. No one will argue that managing Rovers is an easy task in today's modern game, but Sam is making an even bigger meal out of this job. It's always difficult cashing in your best players (Friedel, Bentley, Warnock, Santa Cruz) but have Rovers done enough to replace them?

Nikola Kalinic - Big Sam made one of Rover's more expensive signings in Croatia's Nikola Kalinic, but overlooks him on a weekly basis. The guy is never going to achieve any consistency when he's reduced to substitute appearances and it can't be doing wonders for his young confidence either. His promising partnership with Di Santo is never given the light of day either.

Michel Salgado - Big Sam twisted the board's arm to accommodate the Real Madrid legend onto the books, but he has been another player used sparingly and is soaking up valuable wages. When Sam does eventually play him, he shoves the 34 year-old on the wing, instead of pulling him inside to compensate his lack of pace. He can pass, he can tackle...so why not? Which brings us onto...

Keith Andrews - Maybe I don't have Big Sam's trained eye, but I can't fathom how this guy deserves a starting place in midfield - injuries notwithstanding. All he can do is jog about like a big pansy and point his finger around with a false sense of authority. Serious questions must be raised as to why we told Fulham to get lost in the summer.

Tactics -

Much has been made about 4-5-1 vs. 4-4-2. Unfortunately, the 4-5-1 formation harks back to Sam's Bolton days, which is why many fans are in uproar the moment it's announced. I don't have any preference so long as the system is efficient and gets results. At the moment, neither are reaping any reward. We lack any sort of structure and organisation, and our midfield is severely starved of pace, width and creativity.

I'm at a loss as to why Sam persists with Gael Givet at left-back. Is it bad enough that we lack pace in midfield that we should extend this to our full-backs? Givet is a centre-back, full-back cover at best.

Part of me wonders if Big Sam's health problems and his time at Newcastle have sapped his passion for this job. He never looks the most enthused of men when talking to the media, and it's a far cry from the Cheshire Cat who rejoiced in his overachievements at Bolton. Does he think that he can run the club in auto-pilot by sticking Di Santo up front and hoping the methodical numbers game will keep the club above water? That's the epiphany I got after watching the first half surrender against Man. City.

Agree with all of that. But I'm not sure we have any 11 who can take on the big boys anymore. Are there 3 sides worse than we are? I think so, I hope so. Unless he is allowed to make some key midfield signings in this month's transfer window we are in trouble.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I'm glad that this thread has appeared tonight, because it sums up exactly how I feel. From the minute the camera zoomed in on the oaf slumped in his seat, it made me think we were being managed by Jim Royle. Then there is Williams, his alleged boss, sucking up in the seat next to him.

With MGP, Andrews, Emerton on the wing and Givet at full-back, it was obvious we had no chance, but I was not prepared to see it so blatantly obvious that he has completely lost the dressing room. No heart, no fight, no-one taking responsibility - e.g. Richards running past 10 players to score - and all playing for themselves - e.g. Pedersen celebrating like we'd just gone 3-1 up.

I said to the wife that, for the first time in 44 years, I get absolutely no pleasure from watching. I always feared we would lose our identity and turn into Allardyce Rovers, and we have, and it's horrible. We only ever look any good when we are already beaten and the expert's game plan is chucked in the bin.

Not only will he take us down, but he will alienate more fans than all our previous crap managers put together.

Come on Williams, you bottled the Souness and Ince decisions, be bold for once.

[Hughesy]

Before the drama queens start - im not standing up for Sam - I was very unhappy with tonights performance, especially that of Givet, Nelsen, NZonzi & Andrews. Im also not happy with our current run of form - however im willing to give him 2 more league games to prove a point.

Nearly given up on Allardyce, he has 2 games to save his job though for me. Two defeats in those games and for me he should be out the door.

I agree, 2 league games to get a minimum of 4 points.

Exactly. Sam isn't the only problem we have and the biggest one is lack of funds.

Certain relegation for me if that happens.

Sack Sam and who do we get in that is going to make this bunch perform any better? We lack someone who can cross and someone who is a proven finisher, and we don't have the cash to buy them. I would even take Pennant at the moment, just get the ball in the box. Time for JW to find the cash.

I agree Modes, Sam isnt doing great at the moment, however we need funds to sign a goalscorer and a creater.

For me - Souness, Shearer, Dowie, Newell, Hendry, Tugay would all equal relegation.

Laudrup

What has he done?!

(This was meant for Topman's thread, but looks like it's been deleted, so I'll post here)

Stats for some perspective:

Poor runs of form in the past 3 seasons

Under Hughes (Nov3-Dec27)

W1 D3 L5 - 6 points in 9 games

Under Ince (Oct4-Dec13)

W0 D3 L8 - 3 points in 11 games

Under Sam (Nov25-Jan11)

W0 D5 L4 - 5 points in 9 games

Topman highlighted our problems well, but if sacking Sam is the answer then I don't agree. One of these threads or conversations about Sam "having to go NOW" (or something related to that) starts up every time we lose a game by 2 goals or more. So, honestly, we might as well sack Sam because it's just ridiculous. He's had no backing from the fans since day 1. People were on his back from pre-season and don't try to deny it. So just fire him because we can't go on with this. Bring in another manager, who will keep us up and then fans can turn on that guy again next season when he has no money to improve the squad and we're left with the same problems as under Sam.

The solution to all this of course, is to hire a team of hot female porn stars for managers who will offer hot sex to the players if they win games. Hey it's a bit unorthodox, but it's not any more ridiculous than some of the suggestions given here in the past.

Well said that man

Can't see John Williams having the balls to push Sam out, at all.

Sam is the sort of person that intimidates people very easily and I think he's got JW under his spell.

Besides, JW appointed him and Ince and there's no way he'll admit to getting it wrong twice.

Surely if Sam has to go, so does JW?

JW did not want Sam, and is not his biggest fan.

[BuckyRover]

Steve McClaren?