[Archived] Keith Andrews - Time He Went

[brian_gallagher85]

  On 23/02/2010 at 16:08, den said:

Just what I expected.

Grella, Robinson don't get booed. So why does KA get booed?

Grella - never bloody plays enough to get booed, if he was booed he'd probably get injured again

Robbo - is an England International

Keith - is a LEGEND, everyone is just jealous of his skills

[den]

  On 23/02/2010 at 16:31, bellamy11 said:

People have their own preconceptions about where players come from, almost akin to class warfare ("buy first division players, get first division football").

Well whoever said that knew his football, because that is pretty much the case.

Anyway, you're right, it's got be the preconception that he wouldn't be good enough because of his history of being pretty well unrated at lower league level. People had these thoughts before he arrived, and then, when he didn't perform particularly well the fans were ready for him. It's a tough world sometimes in football and probably unfair, because as many say, it's not his fault that he falls short. Having said that Bellars, the only way he can stop the booing is to improve his performances. Either that, or hope we sign some other sub standard player worse than him.

and no, I'm not trying to be facetious. It's just the way of the world.

[mhead]

199 posts now from den the "non-Keith Andrews" obsessive.

[den]

  On 23/02/2010 at 21:05, mhead said:

199 posts now from den the "non-Keith Andrews" obsessive.

Shuddup.

You're becoming more obsessive than me.

200 now I suppose.

[American]

  On 23/02/2010 at 20:45, den said:

Well whoever said that knew his football, because that is pretty much the case.

How many of our starting 11 had prior Premier League experience before playing for us?

Going by Sunday, a 3-0 victory, not Salgado, Nelsen, Givet, Olsson, N'Zonzi, Andrews, Pedersen, Hoilett or Kalinic. Heck, only Salgado had experience in one of the top 3 leagues in the world and stretch that out to the top 6 or so leagues and only Givet gets added to the list.

So 7 of our starting 11 were playing at an (arguably) equivalent level to the Championship.

[den]

  On 23/02/2010 at 21:11, American said:

How many of our starting 11 had prior Premier League experience before playing for us?

Going by Sunday, a 3-0 victory, not Salgado, Nelsen, Givet, Olsson, N'Zonzi, Andrews, Pedersen, Hoilett or Kalinic. Heck, only Salgado had experience in one of the top 3 leagues in the world and stretch that out to the top 6 or so leagues and only Givet gets added to the list.

So 7 of our starting 11 were playing at an (arguably) equivalent level to the Championship.

American. Don't start silly posts stating that you can sign a team from the Championship and not go down.

201.

[Ricky]

You mean like Birmingham have Den

[American]

  On 23/02/2010 at 21:13, den said:

American. Don't start silly posts stating that you can sign a team from the Championship and not go down.

201.

I'd add to Ricky's example the first year Reading came up and only bought one player, finishing top 10. When they bought more players the next season was when they went down.

I'll also pull a Den and ask where I ever said you can sign a team from the Championship and not go down?

[den]

  On 23/02/2010 at 21:17, Ricky said:

You mean like Birmingham have Den

Birmingham have sold their best players from the Premier League and replaced them from the Championship Ricky? That's what we're talking about.

No-one has said that a team from the Championship can't stay up.

[American]

  On 23/02/2010 at 22:20, den said:

Birmingham have sold their best players from the Premier League and replaced them from the Championship Ricky? That's what we're talking about.

No-one has said that a team from the Championship can't stay up.

They bought their 2 starting center backs from other Championship clubs after getting promoted. They didn't make the mistake that many clubs make of buying players from relegated or nearly relegated clubs.

[den]

  On 23/02/2010 at 22:26, American said:

They bought their 2 starting center backs from other Championship clubs after getting promoted. They didn't make the mistake that many clubs make of buying players from relegated or nearly relegated clubs.

Yep, and if they continue that policy too long, they'll go back from where they came from. Just as rovers will if they sign any more Championship players. Seen it all before mate. Before you supported them? [don't know how long you have supported rovers. Since Friedel was around]?

Come on American, you know what the crack is here.

[yeti-dog]

  On 23/02/2010 at 23:05, den said:

Yep, and if they continue that policy too long, they'll go back from where they came from. Just as rovers will if they sign any more Championship players. Seen it all before mate. Before you supported them? [don't know how long you have supported rovers. Since Friedel was around]?

Come on American, you know what the crack is here.

Den..you're like the annoying kid at school who always has to have to last word.

You also tend to argue in very black and white terms...the proverbial dog with the bone ie..admit that Andrews is pants or I'll keep at it until you bow to my superior knowledge.Getting boring I'm afraid.

I don't think anyone's advocating a team of Andrews-alikes.My take is yeah,he's obviously limited but as a squaddie he's versatile and rarely injured therefore useful but hey,you know best don't you....

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

  On 23/02/2010 at 23:05, den said:

Yep, and if they continue that policy too long, they'll go back from where they came from. Just as rovers will if they sign any more Championship players. Seen it all before mate. Before you supported them? [don't know how long you have supported rovers. Since Friedel was around]?

Come on American, you know what the crack is here.

Hmm -

Nzonzi - french 2nd division

Samba - Hertha Berlin reserves

Santa Cruz - Munich reserves

Nelsen - USA

Hardly obtained from Premiership quality ? There isn't a problem buying from the lower leagues - it is about getting the right player at the right age. If Andrews was 19 or 20 - I am sure many would say he has potential for the future (in the same way we forgive Nzonzi his odd lapses - before anyone says it, not comparing the two). Biggest problem with Keef - he was too old when bought - and thus unlikely to improve too much. You can see at times what he is trying to do - and bless him he does try to retain possession and play the ball on the ground - problem is that his intentions often out weigh his ability.

[joey_big_nose]

  On 23/02/2010 at 23:05, den said:

Yep, and if they continue that policy too long, they'll go back from where they came from. Just as rovers will if they sign any more Championship players. Seen it all before mate. Before you supported them? [don't know how long you have supported rovers. Since Friedel was around]?

Come on American, you know what the crack is here.

Can I point out that Rovers have not bought proven players since Jack's heyday.

By your logic we should have been never been promoted again after 1999. Only proven Premiership (or other European top league) players we have signed post '99 in recent memory are Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Hakan Sukur, Robbie Savage, Berg(second time round), Emerton, McCarthy, Bellamy, Cruz,Givet. Not sure I can think of many others? Feel free to add to the list.

Amongst our best performers were utterly unproven Premiership players - Friedel, Tugay, Neill, Thompson, Samba, Bentley.

I think the point is to buy decent players. We have done that. Birmingham have done that. Not sure what your point is. Whether they come from the Championship or not is irrelevent. You won't see me crying if we sign Joe Ledley.

[Florida Rover]

BABBEL Marcus,CURTIS John,DJORKAEFF Youri,ENCKELMAN Peter,FOWLER Robbie(unbelieveable ),GILLESPIE Keith,GRAY Michael,GRAYSON Simon,HENCHOZ Stephane,HUGHES Mark,JEFFERS Francis,KELLER Marc,KELLY Alan,MILLER Alan,OSTENSTAD Egil,SHORT Craig,THOMPSON David,TODD Andy,WARNOCK Stephen,

[Manc Rover]

  On 24/02/2010 at 03:15, Florida Rover said:

BABBEL Marcus,CURTIS John,DJORKAEFF Youri,ENCKELMAN Peter,FOWLER Robbie(unbelieveable ),GILLESPIE Keith,GRAY Michael,GRAYSON Simon,HENCHOZ Stephane,HUGHES Mark,JEFFERS Francis,KELLER Marc,KELLY Alan,MILLER Alan,OSTENSTAD Egil,SHORT Craig,THOMPSON David,TODD Andy,WARNOCK Stephen,

Who were Robbie Unbelievable and Egil Short?

[mhead]

Its 7.17, where's Den on his exclusive thread for 203.?

[Look4Me]

  On 24/02/2010 at 06:43, Manc Rover said:

Who were Robbie Unbelievable and Egil Short?

Don't know about Egil Short, but Robbie Unbelievable is a distant cousin of Danny Invincible...

Me. Coat. Gone..

[den]

  On 23/02/2010 at 23:19, yeti-dog said:

Den..you're like the annoying kid at school who always has to have to last word.

You also tend to argue in very black and white terms...the proverbial dog with the bone ie..admit that Andrews is pants or I'll keep at it until you bow to my superior knowledge.Getting boring I'm afraid.

I don't think anyone's advocating a team of Andrews-alikes.My take is yeah,he's obviously limited but as a squaddie he's versatile and rarely injured therefore useful but hey,you know best don't you....

Good morning Yeti dog.

"Black and white terms". "admit that Andrews is pants or I'll keep at it until you bow to my superior knowledge" Don't know what you mean there.

As for your views on KA, well you're in a minority according to the poll above your head. As for the difficulty in understanding that replacing quality PL players with Championship standard players will only take you one way, well what is there to add?

203 [i think].

[joey_big_nose]

  On 24/02/2010 at 03:15, Florida Rover said:

BABBEL Marcus,CURTIS John,DJORKAEFF Youri,ENCKELMAN Peter,FOWLER Robbie(unbelieveable ),GILLESPIE Keith,GRAY Michael,GRAYSON Simon,HENCHOZ Stephane,HUGHES Mark,JEFFERS Francis,KELLER Marc,KELLY Alan,MILLER Alan,OSTENSTAD Egil,SHORT Craig,THOMPSON David,TODD Andy,WARNOCK Stephen,

Good list there, thanks. Out of them though I would only really give you Henchoz, Gray, Short, Grayson, Ostenstad, Thompson, Warnock. That said Thompson was bought out of the first division from Coventry and Warnock had hardly featured for Liverpool in a couple of years before we go him in.

Hughes, Babbel, Fowler, Djorkaeff, Babbel all came right at the ends of their careers so constituted major gambles. They were not 'proven'.

Kelly, Miller, Jeffers hardly played for us.

Curtis hardly appeared for Man Utd before we got him. Gillespie arrived in 1998 so early than the period we are looking at.

I would say currently we have as many "proven" players in the team as we have had at any point in the last ten years.We simply can't go out and get players with substantial Premier League experience unless they are deeply average.

We need to take punts on players - something SOuness and Hughes were excellent at and Allardyce seems to be doing a good job to.

[T4E]

As a fully signed up member of the Julie-ettes, I would like to take this opportunity to say.................

KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEF

[Exiled in Toronto]

Well, he's still here, still getting picked sometimes, so clearly Allardyce thinks he contributes something.

I think this debate says more about Allardyce than anything; with him its system first, players second. All the posters going on that Andrews is skill-less are missing the point - if it was just about skill, we wouldn't have sold Benni and he'd have played every game as captain, rather than being shipped out.

Allardyce clearly rates attributes like drive, desire, fitness, positive attitude and willingness to follow instructions, all of which Keef has in spades, more than most others in the squad. Even his much derided finger-pointing is someone wanting to lead and most likely reinforcing the great man's instructions to the Doubting Thomas's in the team. Better that than some of the playing for themselves under-achievers we have had to watch.

The Super-Atko comparisons are over-blown, but I see Keef as more a Nicky Marker, and I don't remember him being booed for the sin of coming from lowly Plymouth. But given that our crowd booed Jason Wilcox, a local lad who won a champions medal and an England cap, I'm not sure they are a good barometer of anything. And I'm certain Allardyce will not be telling him to silence the booers, but to just keep following instructions.

[bellamy11]

  On 24/02/2010 at 21:38, Exiled in Toronto said:

Well, he's still here, still getting picked sometimes, so clearly Allardyce thinks he contributes something.

I think this debate says more about Allardyce than anything; with him its system first, players second. All the posters going on that Andrews is skill-less are missing the point - if it was just about skill, we wouldn't have sold Benni and he'd have played every game as captain, rather than being shipped out.

Allardyce clearly rates attributes like drive, desire, fitness, positive attitude and willingness to follow instructions, all of which Keef has in spades, more than most others in the squad. Even his much derided finger-pointing is someone wanting to lead and most likely reinforcing the great man's instructions to the Doubting Thomas's in the team. Better that than some of the playing for themselves under-achievers we have had to watch.

The Super-Atko comparisons are over-blown, but I see Keef as more a Nicky Marker, and I don't remember him being booed for the sin of coming from lowly Plymouth. But given that our crowd booed Jason Wilcox, a local lad who won a champions medal and an England cap, I'm not sure they are a good barometer of anything. And I'm certain Allardyce will not be telling him to silence the booers, but to just keep following instructions.

That's an excellent post EiT.

[47er]

  On 24/02/2010 at 21:38, Exiled in Toronto said:

Well, he's still here, still getting picked sometimes, so clearly Allardyce thinks he contributes something.

I think this debate says more about Allardyce than anything; with him its system first, players second. All the posters going on that Andrews is skill-less are missing the point - if it was just about skill, we wouldn't have sold Benni and he'd have played every game as captain, rather than being shipped out.

Allardyce clearly rates attributes like drive, desire, fitness, positive attitude and willingness to follow instructions, all of which Keef has in spades, more than most others in the squad. Even his much derided finger-pointing is someone wanting to lead and most likely reinforcing the great man's instructions to the Doubting Thomas's in the team. Better that than some of the playing for themselves under-achievers we have had to watch.

The Super-Atko comparisons are over-blown, but I see Keef as more a Nicky Marker, and I don't remember him being booed for the sin of coming from lowly Plymouth. But given that our crowd booed Jason Wilcox, a local lad who won a champions medal and an England cap, I'm not sure they are a good barometer of anything. And I'm certain Allardyce will not be telling him to silence the booers, but to just keep following instructions.

Nicky Marker was a much better player than Andrews though. When he made a tackle the opponent knew it!

[thenodrog]

  On 24/02/2010 at 22:24, 47er said:

Nicky Marker was a much better player than Andrews though. When he made a tackle the opponent knew it!

Ossie Ardilles will testify to that.