[Archived] Keith Andrews - Time He Went

[RIML]

What's the saying again? Real men don't cry

Ha you know I'm only doing this to annoy Brian

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

What's the saying again? Real men don't cry

Ha you know I'm only doing this to annoy Brian

Is he stood on a box or is Keane kneeling down ?

[Tim Southampton Rover]

Could you add into that the games won %....and also the games won when only 1 of them has played

Andrews has featured in 100% of the games that Blackburn have won with Andrews in the side.

[RIML]

Is he stood on a box or is Keane kneeling down ?

Keith - 6' 0"

Keane - 5' 9"

[Kelbo]

If he does go, this messageboard will seem like a quiet place.

Jonnolad wouldn't have much to talk about.

Jonnolad wouldnt have anything to talk about, maybe he will follow him to his new club??

Darwen wont be too far to travel

Sorry Darwen!!

[Eddie]

Not sure if this has been posted...but the incident made it onto Yahoo! which is a bit surprising...

[ada2020]

What's the saying again? Real men don't cry

Ha you know I'm only doing this to annoy Brian

Swap Keane for Jason Brown and I bet that was the picture in the dugout Saturday afternoon.

Keith "The nasty fan said I was sh** "

[Kelbo]

Nice of you to read the one error I made in my post and totally disregard the rest of it. Ability is fine if you are actually capable of playing more than 5 minutes without needing urgent medical attention.

I have admitted time and time again that Keith is no world beater, but having all the skill in the world is totally pointless than if you can't actually manage to take to the field of player.

Keith is a far more valuable member of our squad than both Grella and Basturk because he can at least make himself available for selection week in week out.

Having players like Andrews' in our squad may not push us further up the table, but it will (and has) kept us in the league. I don't believe that a physio room full of Grella's and Basturk's would.

I can give you thousands of players who will stay fit and make the team each week, does that make them good enough, we are talking of ability here!!

[Exiled in Toronto]

There is simply no way of defending him and his lack of a performance that counts !

Its alright running and pointing but there is NO end product, no creativity, he cannot tackle and he certainly doesnt do anything to worry the opposition, defensively or offensively.

I challenge anyone to, like den has and like others have to tell us ANYTHING RELATIVELY POSITIVE about his performances and attributes in taking BRFC forwards.

What's the point though? What are you trying to prove? It's all about opinions, not cast-iron facts. Allardyce picked him on Saturday so he must have a reason, it's just that Allardyce knows what it is and you don't.

[Kelbo]

What's the point though? What are you trying to prove? It's all about opinions, not cast-iron facts. Allardyce picked him on Saturday so he must have a reason, it's just that Allardyce knows what it is and you don't.

Well I wish he would friggin tell us as it totally beats me!!!

[roversmum]

It's all gone too far. Keith is not stupid, he knows how the fans feel about him but whatever his failings he is wearing our colours and doesn't deserve the constant harping. All the arguments for and against have been made several thousand (it seems) times but he is still a human being and a decent bloke and I for one am sorry it has come to this.

[Al]

He knew before he came that he was not wanted. If it bothers him so much he should put in a transfer request.

[roversmum]

Well it's not nice and I don't like to see someone who is trying his best treated in that way, it goes against all our club stands for as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not saying any more on this thread, just disgusted really.

[brian_gallagher85]

Ability is all very fine but it doesn't always win football matches...Inter have shown this tonight by dominating the supposedly amazingly talented Barca side containing the worlds "best player".

This "debate" has now changed from a straight choice between getting rid/keep, into whether or not he has the ability to play for Rovers, (moving the goalposts anyone?).

Keith is available for the vast majority of games week in week out and is actually appearing to do something to justify his weekly wage, whatever it may be. Player like Grella are a massive drain on a club like Rovers finance and since we can't appear to scrape together a few million for the Pole I would have thought that this would have been to the fore front of most Rovers fans minds and not whether or not Keith Andrews deserves to be (at the very least) a squad player at Ewood Park.

Footballing ability is all well and good but what the hell's the point if you don't have the ABILITY to actually make it onto the pitch?

Keith Andrews is picked to play for Blackburn Rovers F.C. by the manager, not the fans and no amount of throwing your toys out of prams and posts by keyboard warriors about his ability will change this.

It's about time that Rovers fans as a whole actually got behind the team who are pushing towards a top ten finish when in all honestly we should be right in the mix for relegation. Big Sam and the whole on and off field staff deserved great credit for this and I will be cheering them all on (especially Keith) from my ST seat when I'm next over for the final home game of the season....volcano willing!

COYB

[47er]

You can only sell if you have got a buyer...

I think the only thing for us is that Ince may find a new club and come in for him!!!

Look, if we haven't a buyer I'd get rid anyway. I think his level is Div 1 which means, even on a free, they couldn't afford his wages. So pay part of them till his contract runs out, then we can all put this ghastly mistake behind us and talk about something else.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Well I wish he would friggin tell us as it totally beats me!!!

Perhaps at his next meet the fans session someone should ask him and then try ranting at him like they do on here.

[DeadlyDirk]

Could you add into that the games won %....and also the games won when only 1 of them has played

Yes I could, because I'm that nocturnal.

Firstly, they are what they are just a bunch of stats which on their own don't mean a lot, you have to obviously take into account strength of the oppositon, home or away and most importantly who else was playing. Still I thought it'd be interesting to compare the two. Some of the stats are a bit more valid than others, you can't pay a lot of attention to the ones that are based on 2 or 3 games for obvious reasons but the ones in double figures are perhaps worth looking at. Secondly it's only stats for this season as that took long enough!

I'm now going to ignore my point about them not meaning much on their own completely and pick out a few points based soley on my stats

• 16 times neither Grella or Andrews has started and we've won 44% of those games, our best winning percentage
  
• We've lost 48% of the games that Andrews started, 40% of those he featured in
  
• We've lost 33% of the games Grella started and 27% of those he featured in
  
• Although it seems like he always plays at times, Andrews has only started half of our games, perhaps reassuring us that he is backup and he doesn't usually play IF others are fit
  
• The difference in percentages (For wins, draws and losses) for games that Andrews started, featured in or didn't play in all are pretty similiar.
  
• When Grella features we avoid defeat more often than not, perhaps backing up the point that he adds stability to the defence
  
• Although when Grella plays we often avoid defeat, we don't win many, perhaps suggesting he doesn't offer a lot going forward
  
• It goes without saying but Grella isn't available for selection nearly enough and at best has started 3 games in a row or made 6 appearances in a row including subs
  

Analysing a few in more detail the most alarming statistic I noticed is the similarities between winning and losing regarding Andrews. We've won 29% when he started, 34% when he either started or came on a sub and 30% when he didn't feature so it doesn't look like he does a great deal to influence games, the losing and drawing percentages are also similiar. So perhaps he isn't the reason we lose games but it certainly doesn't look like you can look to him as a reason why we win any games. (For the record he has 1 goal this year, a penalty against Liverpool I believe, which we lost.)

We avoid defeat more often than not when Grella plays, 67% of the time when he starts, 73% of the time when he features and only 52% when he doesn't. However when he starts we only win 22%, when he features 27% and when he's injured it goes up to 37%. That suggests he offers stability to the defence but does not offer much at all going forward.

The key statistic is perhaps the fact that we win 44% of the time when neither starts and 40% of the time when neither feature at all, our highest winning percentages compared to any other combination of the two.

So in conclusion we seem to do pretty well when neither feature and perhaps we wouldn't be at much of a loss if either/both left the club other than being short on midfielders. It's certainly interesting the amount of games we win without them compared to games with them.

The argument to keep Andrews in regards to these stats can only really be based on one thing, the thing that people have mentioned throughout the topic (And the last one on him) and that's the fact that he stays fit. Only 4 times has he not even been included on the bench, I'm not sure if any of those were due to injury or simply the managers choice. No other stat really offers much support to Andrews, the stats above simply suggest he'll do a job but won't have much of an influence on the outcome of a game.

Is the fact that he simply stays fit a good enough reason to keep him? It shouldn't be but perhaps in our case it is, mainly due to the fact that very few of our other midfielders can do that and resources are tight. We could replace Andrews ability wise quite easily but at what cost? (2-3m at a guess for an average premiership midfielder?) In an ideal world I think we need to strengthen the first team with players who stay fit a little more often thus sending Andrews further down the pecking order but at least remaining as an always fit 6th or 7th choice option. Seeing Andrews play 10 games or so as a backup player when others are injured or needing a rest wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, the problem is that he is a backup player who ends up playing far too often.

The argument to keep Grella based on the stats above is that he offers defensive protection and increases our chances of not losing the game, still the problem is that he is not fit nearly enough and looking at the above offers very little going forward. I'm not sure that he does enough when he plays to make it worthwhile keeping him around based on his fitness record. I think if he plays then perhaps it should be in games that we are looking to avoid defeat rather than go for the win and then bring him on as a sub in other games to protect the lead/draw. Maybe limiting his playing time (I'm not sure if it's actually possible to limit anymore than he does himself)might help him maintain his fitness.

As much as I can see the argument to keep Grella based on his defensive abilities I think if I was the manager I'd be looking to try and bring in a midfielder who can a) Stay fit, Do the defensive work of Grella and c) Offer a little more going forward for around 5-6m and then giving up on the injury prone Grella and try to get 2m back for him. (But only after we bring someone in first for a change.) Somebody like Scott Parker would be a good option but I'm sure better clubs will be after him and they may well want a lot more for him so the difficulty will obviously be finding a player who can do all of the above at that sort of price and then finding a buyer for Grella. (Please be fit for the WC)

We'd then build the midfield around A.N. Other, N'Zonzi and Dunn with Emerton and Pedersen (If the rumours are true) as backup, we'd then have Andrews as 6th choice backup, and who knows perhaps Judge or Linganzi are ready to step up and then we can offload Andrews for 1-2m or so. In my opinion we can afford to let one or maybe both go and then only have a netspend of 1-2m on a new quality midfielder, but it's easy this managing lark on paper. Is it too simple to think we can get 3-4m for Grella and Andrews and bring in a quality midfielder (By quality I mean a stepup from what we have, not Xavi) for 6m or so and still have plenty of cover? (Surely 6 midfielders for Sam's 3 man midfield is enough) We have plenty of 'decent' midfielders and are just crying out for one quality one, but then how long have we been saying something along those lines?

Maybe I'm being harsh on Grella but with his fitness record he simply can't be relied upon and as someone who should be starting I'd still look to replace him ahead of Andrews.

I know I said it's easy managing on paper but as 99% of people have said on here before and I'm sure most of you would at least agree with me on the following point, how glaringly obvious is it that we are missing quality in the center of the park. Dunn is the only one who can linkup the play and is too knackered to do it all by himself these days so therefore often drifts in and out of games or tries to do it all by himself in a rush in fear that we might either lose the ball at any moment.

It is a bit of a myth that we don't create chances but most of the time they are half chances, or balls into the box from set pieces or scrambles that fall in the box that someone has to poke a toe at. We certainly don't create many good chances. Whoever Sam brings in up front will struggle to score goals unless they can make something happen by themselves. If we had someone who could boss the midfield and dictate games by keeping control of the ball we'd look a completely different side, someone to help Dunn bring people into play like Kalinic, Hoilett, Olsson, Diouf, Pedersen, all of which have more to offer going forward then they are currently showing if only they were allowed a little more freedom to either stay up top or get forward. Living in a little dream world just suppose we could add someone like Parker, Fellaini, Milner, Huddlestone, Song etc, we'd look like a different side overnight in my opinion. There must be someone out there of perhaps slightly less quality for around 5-6m that we can go after. Spend 5m or so on a striker and try and recoup 5m or so on the likes of Grella, Andrews, Zurab and Brown/Bunn and we could challenge the top 8, surely after the hard work and asset stripping Sam has done we can afford to have a netspend of 5-7m, maybe now I'm really living in a dream world

[Majiball]

I nominate DeadlyDirk for match analyst at Rovers sign him up JW.

[CrazyIvan]

So the end result is that Andrews is just about average, not doing exceptional things or really bad things. That about sums it up. In actual fact Andrews is our average player. Now, someone will tell me that we need above average players but that's a bit like saying 'I'm an above average driver' when in fact you are much more likely to be average than not. He's a squad player, that's it. Leave him, and frankly this thread, alone. It's about time you who are the judge of all football related to decide to support and back a Rovers player until he isn't one.

I agree with Roversmum, the idiotic comments and insults thrown at Andrews are disgusting.

[Sandiway Blue]

Yes I could, because I'm that nocturnal.

STATTO!,STATTO!

[47er]

So the end result is that Andrews is just about average, not doing exceptional things or really bad things. That about sums it up. In actual fact Andrews is our average player. Now, someone will tell me that we need above average players but that's a bit like saying 'I'm an above average driver' when in fact you are much more likely to be average than not. He's a squad player, that's it. Leave him, and frankly this thread, alone. It's about time you who are the judge of all football related to decide to support and back a Rovers player until he isn't one.

I agree with Roversmum, the idiotic comments and insults thrown at Andrews are disgusting.

Agree with everyone who says the situation is not of Andrews making and he doesn't deserve the treatment he gets during a match. However I must take issue with you in one respect--Andrews is definitely NOT average.

[Hughesy]

Using stats from Wiki:

Keith Andrews: Signed 2008 - 62 league games - 5 goals - Signed for a fee up to £1m

Vince Grella: Signed 2008 - 31 league games - 0 goals - Signed for approx £4m

Andrews played twice amount of games, 5 goals more and cost £3m less.

We also lose many more games with Andrews in....see real analysis below

Yes I could, because I'm that nocturnal.

[*]16 times neither Grella or Andrews has started and we've won 44% of those games, our best winning percentage

[*]We've lost 48% of the games that Andrews started, 40% of those he featured in

[*]We've lost 33% of the games Grella started and 27% of those he featured in

We avoid defeat more often than not when Grella plays, 67% of the time when he starts, 73% of the time when he features and only 52% when he doesn't. However when he starts we only win 22%, when he features 27% and when he's injured it goes up to 37%. That suggests he offers stability to the defence but does not offer much at all going forward.

The key statistic is perhaps the fact that we win 44% of the time when neither starts and 40% of the time when neither feature at all, our highest winning percentages compared to any other combination of the two.

Top work double D.

Basically - Grella offers us more defensive protection when fit (i.e. he does his job well) - Andrews however offers very little.

Interesting that if Grella starts & Andrews is a sub (i.e. giving someone else the chance to do the attacking midfield job) - we havent lost a game.....Includes Villa, Liverpool & United!!

[ada2020]

Ability is all very fine but it doesn't always win football matches...Inter have shown this tonight by dominating the supposedly amazingly talented Barca side containing the worlds "best player".

This "debate" has now changed from a straight choice between getting rid/keep, into whether or not he has the ability to play for Rovers, (moving the goalposts anyone?).

They are paid for their ability, they are picked on their ability. It's not moving the goal posts at all.

The fact his ability is low is what drives everyones opinion that he should be moved on.

The Inter game is irrelevant, Inter are packed with top class player's so are Barca. Even the worlds best players have off day's. Keith simply does not have enough "on days" to warrant selection and being kept in the squad.

It is a shame he get's a lot of greif, but he isnt the first.

[Amo]

I've heard Paul Ince will take over at West Ham next season and launch a £5m bid for buddy Andrews.

Keep it under you hats.

[thenodrog]

He had a very good pass against Everton.

He does have the ability to make excellent crossfield passes from right midfield towards the left winger / corner flag. I've seen him do it many times. He must practice that all day cos there's nothing else of note in his game.