[Archived] Flitcroft And Jansen

[AggyBlue]

Steve Bould never played for England (or if he did maybe in a friendly). I always thought he was a class defender.

Wiki disagrees with you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bould

[DanLad]

But you need to be able to prove that you're a top player over a number of seasons to be an international player, not one hot streak in a single season - as per Lambert and Holt.

Phil Jones had one hot streak under us and was only an under 21 international. As soon as he went to Utd he was in contention for the full squad. The hot streak for wasn't good enough when he played for us, but was instantly good enough once he was at Utd.

I've no doubt Matty would've got in the England squad. Great lad, comes across very intelligent when you talk to him and clearly thinks of his club.

As for Sutton, his attitude towards England was terrible.

The England set ups attitude to Sutton was poor. They expected him to play in B internationals even though they didn't mean anything. I think Le Tiss (or someone) played in one scored a hat trick, or 4, or something and still didn't then get picked for the full side off the back of it. ISTR that Sutton was initially criticised for pulling out, but was subsequently vindicated.

Ferguson kicks off when one of his players get called up for the under 21s, but its fine for our first team players to have to trot off for pointless extra games?

I recall Bentley being criticised for not playing an England under 21 tournament, but no-one whinged about Rooney not going or the rash of 'injuries' that other first team players for other clubs 'suffered' to get out of playing.

[speeeeeeedie]

Wiki disagrees with you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bould

Come on, cut me some slack, it was years ago.

From the page;

International career

Despite forming part of one of the most secure top-flight defences of the late 1980s and early-to-mid 1990s, Bould won only two caps for England, far fewer than fellow centre half Tony Adams, and didn't make his first full international appearance until the age of 31

[Mike E]

The Cole/Baines argument is interesting. A friend offered me sone stats the other day in terms of a full backs duties of supporting the attack, keeping defensive shape, making tackles, completing passes and chipping in with goals.

Baines was better in everything for the last 2 seasons apart from clean sheets.

Cole is the best lb in the world. Is he the best in England, though? And Everton aren't exactly a small club.

[jim mk2]

Sutton has always been headstrong and said his piece it was his undoing as a potential England player and when he became a manager. The result is he is now out of the game as far as I know.

Le Tissier was a maverick who did not fit into any system. He was perfect for Soton but no international manager would have risked picking him regularly.

Jansen would have gained many England caps until he stupidly went for a bike ride in Rome but I doubt it would have been with Rovers. If his progress had continued he would have been snapped up by one of the so-called "bigger" clubs.

Blame the overbloated, overhyped and excruciatingly boring Champions League for the likes of Jones getting picked for England. Tis the root of all football's evils.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

The Cole/Baines argument is interesting. A friend offered me sone stats the other day in terms of a full backs duties of supporting the attack, keeping defensive shape, making tackles, completing passes and chipping in with goals.

Baines was better in everything for the last 2 seasons apart from clean sheets.

Cole is the best lb in the world. Is he the best in England, though? And Everton aren't exactly a small club.

Stats are pretty meaningless imo.

Like Ronaldinho said just the other day, "Ashley Cole is a fantastic defender. I have seen him keep the best players in the world quiet."

And that's the difference between the two imo. Could Baines mark players like Cristiano Ronaldo out the game like Cole does? Probably not.

Ashley Cole and Scholes are easily your best two players imo.

[Amo]

Cole got ripped a new one by a player we just let go for nothing. He ain't a worldie.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

No player plays well every game.

His performances for England at tournaments and in the Champions League would suggest he is a "worldie" imo.

[thenodrog]

Le Tissier was a maverick who did not fit into any system. He was perfect for Soton but no international manager would have risked picking him regularly.

I disagree. Most international teams apart from the very best would build a team around someone with exceptional talent like Le Tissier. Italy did it with Pirlo, Eire with Brady, France with Platini, Holland with Cruyf, Rumania with Haji and even the Argies with Maradona.

Some of our club teams have built their team around a talented individual at some time or other. Chelsea and Lpool are both set up to lay the ball into the path of Lampard / Gerrard on the edge of the box as frequently as they can. Rem Souness set the team up to utilise the creative genius of Berkovitz in our promotion season. England don't cos successive managers are straightjacketed by press and media and select players for a position rather than a role. It's why I've always said that Lampard and Gerrard should never play in the same England team.

[Mike E]

No player plays well every game.

His performances for England at tournaments and in the Champions League would suggest he is a "worldie" imo.

I do think for the last year or so, his reputation has exceeded his ability and Baines should take over. I fear Baines won't get his deserved recognition and will be overshadowed by the rise of Gibbs or Rose.

However I'm very happy for him to be an England Centurion.

[thenodrog]

No player plays well every game.

His performances for England at tournaments and in the Champions League would suggest he is a "worldie" imo.

You are saying in effect that he is the left back in the world currently!

I'd disagree strongly cos his defending is too weak to be anywhere near receiving such an extravagent accolade.

[jim mk2]

I disagree. Most international teams apart from the very best would build a team around someone with exceptional talent like Le Tissier. Italy did it with Pirlo, Eire with Brady, France with Platini, Holland with Cruyf, Rumania with Haji and even the Argies with Maradona.

Some of our club teams have built their team around a talented individual at some time or other. Chelsea and Lpool are both set up to lay the ball into the path of Lampard / Gerrard on the edge of the box as frequently as they can. Rem Souness set the team up to utilise the creative genius of Berkovitz in our promotion season. England don't cos successive managers are straightjacketed by press and media and select players for a position rather than a role. It's why I've always said that Lampard and Gerrard should never play in the same England team.

Lampard and Gerrard play as part of a team in a way that Le Tissier never did. England could never build a team round Le Tissier because he was so inconsistent and in some games disappeared. If he were that good he would not have stayed at Soto all his career.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Stats are pretty meaningless imo.

Like Ronaldinho said just the other day, "Ashley Cole is a fantastic defender. I have seen him keep the best players in the world quiet."

And that's the difference between the two imo. Could Baines mark players like Cristiano Ronaldo out the game like Cole does? Probably not.

Ashley Cole and Scholes are easily your best two players imo.

Baines is a good club player but Cole has been and still is in another league. Probably the best left back we've had in a long ,long while. His detractors are letting their opinion of him as a person cloud their judgement of him as a player. For me he's still a world class left back.

[thenodrog]

Baines is a good club player but Cole has been and still is in another league. Probably the best left back we've had in a long ,long while. His detractors are letting their opinion of him as a person cloud their judgement of him as a player. For me he's still a world class left back.

There's that vastly overused phrase again ... 'World class'. What a load of @#/?! If we had to apply that literally then the next time we play Mars we'll have to field a few hundred! Cole is a good player without a doubt but he most definitely is NOT world class.

[LeChuck]

There's that vastly overused phrase again ... 'World class'. What a load of @#/?! If we had to apply that literally then the next time we play Mars we'll have to field a few hundred!

"World class" doesn't have to mean the best in the world in that position. It's pretty subjective to be honest. Personally I consider it to mean that they could play for any team in the world. I think Cole qualifies for this, you could drop him into any team in the world and he'd not look out of place in any. He's probably the only England player that I would say falls into this, with Wilshere having the potential if he maintains his form for a number of years..

Given that your definition probably means you couldn't field Messi, Ronaldo and Van Persie in the same team, then surely you must accept there's a slight flaw? I don't think anyone means "best in the world" when they say "world class".

[K-Hod]

Lampard and Gerrard play as part of a team in a way that Le Tissier never did. England could never build a team round Le Tissier because he was so inconsistent and in some games disappeared. If he were that good he would not have stayed at Soto all his career.

Le Tiss had plenty of opportunities to move on, he just never did.

Cracking player, should have played more for England, but let's not forget, there were plenty of other players in front of him at the time.

Shearer, Sheringham, Wright, Ferdinand, Gazza etc.

[gumboots]

Le Tiss had plenty of opportunities to move on, he just never did.

Cracking player, should have played more for England, but let's not forget, there were plenty of other players in front of him at the time.

Shearer, Sheringham, Wright, Ferdinand, Gazza etc.

But we'd have won more penalty shoot outs if he'd played more.

[Andy]

But we'd have won more penalty shoot outs if he'd played more.

Only if he could have taken all five!