[Archived] Premiership Home Grown Rule

[DeadlyDirk]

Something Majiball posted in the Olsson thread made me think about the homegrown rule and whether or not it's a good idea.

I do wonder once this comes into full effect whether these home-grown status's will hike prices further for english players?

From next season most of us are aware that the new 'homegrown' rule will be coming into effect. In short the main facts about the home grown rule seem to be these.

1. A squad of 25 players must be confirmed at the end of the summer transfer window and then again at the end of the winter transfer window.

2. 8 of these 25 players must be 'homegrown' (A homegrown player is someone that has been with the club for 3 years/36 months prior to his 21st birthday, regardless of his nationality.)

3. Players under the age of 21 can still be used throughout the domestic season in additon to the 25 named players.

So in short I believe the basic idea for this was to try and bring through young talent to stop the decline of the national team in the future and to stop clubs simply filling their squads with foreign players. In theory it's not such a bad idea and I agree with the goals that they have.

In practice though it's just not going to work. As per usual, the bigger clubs such as the top 4, Citeh, Villa Spuds etc will all be fighting it out for the most promising 18 year old kids so that they can bring them through as homegrown players in the future. Meanwhile, clubs with less cash to spend like ourselves will have to simply make do with what we get through our own academy or basically look to buy the players that bigger clubs don't want.

Now as Majiball suggested, this is only going to push the price up of english players, especially younger ones, even further than they are now. Smaller clubs and clubs like ourselves will not be able to compete with these kind of fees and unfortunately now we won't always be able to go for that cheaper, unproven foreign option as we may well have already maxed our quota, instead we'll be more or less forced into buying inferior 'homegrown' talent.

Like any thing the FA tries to do in my eyes it simply makes the strong, stronger and the weak, weaker.

Out of interest I guess we have the following homegrown players....

Robinson

Dunn

Roberts

Olsson

Reid

Andrews

Judge

Treacey

Brown

Bunn

We are not exactly blessed with homegrown talent right now, 3 are goalkeepers and the likes of Roberts and possibly Andrews might not even be here next year. Reid and Dunn's contracts are running out so they could be off as well. It also means that when we replace them we surely have to look to replace them with homegrown talent?

Obviously we have a few other youngsters who have been on the fringes of the team like Jones, Doran who will earn homegrown status in the future and can be used in the first team as additional players.

The positive for us (In some ways) is that we don't have that large a squad, so from my count we'd have no problem including all of the 'non homegrown' players we currently have (I make it only about 13 over the age of 21 even including Rigters etc), but surely any transfer dealing from now on has to be bearing this in mind for the future.

[Tom]

I think it has good intentions but its a bad thing due to us not having enough quality in our home grown talents

[RibbleValleyRover]

I'm guessing it will drive up prices for English players, the reason why they are so overpriced at the moment is that its hard to find good enough english players (you can find better options abroad at a far cheaper price). This home grown rule is only going to increase the prices more as clubs compete to find the best english talent. The more interest in the player the higher the price and results in a bidding war.

This home grown rule will also see clubs buying players at a really young age, we have seen clubs buy the odd youngster but you will a lot of clubs scouting the junior leagues for example signing up 6 year olds.

[BlueWhiteDynamite]

What they should have done, is when the number of subs was increased from 5 to 7, the league should have insised these 2 players are home grown. it will drive up prices, but surely the point should be development over purchase.

[Majiball]

Nice to have inspired you!! Good idea for a thread!!

I remember reading this article when it was being discussed.

My link

At the end of the day if the goal is to help the development of our kids, they need to stop doing bits and pieces. The Premier league, the FA the clubs and the scientists, all need to sit down and come up with a plan for every aspect of kids development from 8 all the way through to the first team.

But co-operation between all of those factions will most likely never happen.

At the end of the day the clubs that can will still just sign players and make them into home grown players (if it was about developing kids for england and wales why can they be from any country???). Those that can't afford to do that will sign lower league players as back-ups to fill the quota's. So perhaps we might see more signings from clubs outside the premiership, thus pumping more much needed money there way. However what could that do to the overall standard?

[DeadlyDirk]

Nice to have inspired you!! Good idea for a thread!!

I remember reading this article when it was being discussed.

My link

At the end of the day if the goal is to help the development of our kids, they need to stop doing bits and pieces. The Premier league, the FA the clubs and the scientists, all need to sit down and come up with a plan for every aspect of kids development from 8 all the way through to the first team.

But co-operation between all of those factions will most likely never happen.

At the end of the day the clubs that can will still just sign players and make them into home grown players (if it was about developing kids for england and wales why can they be from any country???). Those that can't afford to do that will sign lower league players as back-ups to fill the quota's. So perhaps we might see more signings from clubs outside the premiership, thus pumping more much needed money there way. However what could that do to the overall standard?

Thanks for the inspiration!

I have a feeling this way to do with employment laws and freedom of movement etc, it covers the FA while although the players can in theory be from any country they know that the majority are going to be English.

[Kelbo]

Something Majiball posted in the Olsson thread made me think about the homegrown rule and whether or not it's a good idea.

From next season most of us are aware that the new 'homegrown' rule will be coming into effect. In short the main facts about the home grown rule seem to be these.

1. A squad of 25 players must be confirmed at the end of the summer transfer window and then again at the end of the winter transfer window.

2. 8 of these 25 players must be 'homegrown' (A homegrown player is someone that has been with the club for 3 years/36 months prior to his 21st birthday, regardless of his nationality.)

3. Players under the age of 21 can still be used throughout the domestic season in additon to the 25 named players.

So in short I believe the basic idea for this was to try and bring through young talent to stop the decline of the national team in the future and to stop clubs simply filling their squads with foreign players. In theory it's not such a bad idea and I agree with the goals that they have.

In practice though it's just not going to work. As per usual, the bigger clubs such as the top 4, Citeh, Villa Spuds etc will all be fighting it out for the most promising 18 year old kids so that they can bring them through as homegrown players in the future. Meanwhile, clubs with less cash to spend like ourselves will have to simply make do with what we get through our own academy or basically look to buy the players that bigger clubs don't want.

Now as Majiball suggested, this is only going to push the price up of english players, especially younger ones, even further than they are now. Smaller clubs and clubs like ourselves will not be able to compete with these kind of fees and unfortunately now we won't always be able to go for that cheaper, unproven foreign option as we may well have already maxed our quota, instead we'll be more or less forced into buying inferior 'homegrown' talent.

Like any thing the FA tries to do in my eyes it simply makes the strong, stronger and the weak, weaker.

Out of interest I guess we have the following homegrown players....

Robinson

Dunn

Roberts

Olsson

Reid

Andrews

Judge

Treacey

Brown

Bunn

We are not exactly blessed with homegrown talent right now, 3 are goalkeepers and the likes of Roberts and possibly Andrews might not even be here next year. Reid and Dunn's contracts are running out so they could be off as well. It also means that when we replace them we surely have to look to replace them with homegrown talent?

Obviously we have a few other youngsters who have been on the fringes of the team like Jones, Doran who will earn homegrown status in the future and can be used in the first team as additional players.

The positive for us (In some ways) is that we don't have that large a squad, so from my count we'd have no problem including all of the 'non homegrown' players we currently have (I make it only about 13 over the age of 21 even including Rigters etc), but surely any transfer dealing from now on has to be bearing this in mind for the future.

Hoilett????

[DeadlyDirk]

What they should have done, is when the number of subs was increased from 5 to 7, the league should have insised these 2 players are home grown. it will drive up prices, but surely the point should be development over purchase.

The problem with that though is that then kids are selected because they have to be, not on merit. I'm all for encouraging bringing through younger players and hopefully improving the national team but in my eyes players should be selected on ability and not soley because they meet homegrown criteria.

Wage caps, transfer fee caps would be the way to truly improve homegrown players and bring them through in my opinion as well as local talent. Of course this would never happen though as then the top players would move to other leagues who don't have caps in place which would therefore weaken the premiership and make it far less profitable which Scudamore and Co would of course never go for.

It certainly is difficult and not an easy solution but then it's not my job to come up with the solution, it's up to the FA higher ups to come up with a suitable solution which in my opinion they haven't done this time. We want to continue bringing quality players to the premier league like we have in the past with people like Bergkamp, Cantona, Zola, Tugay among many many others. The problem lies with bringing in mediocre foreign talent just because they are cheaper than the English alternative.

Hoilett????

I actually meant to mention Junior at the end but completley forgot. Firstly it all depends on whether he signs a new contract, otherwise it's irrelevant. If he does sign a new contract, which I hope he does, then he's the one player I'm unsure of. I understand he's been on the books since the age of 13 or so but am unsure whether or not he needs to be on pro terms, plus obviously the loans he's been on to Germany. I'm not sure if that would count for us or for Germany or even perhaps for both. If I had to guess I'd say he would count but am not positive. It all depends really on whether or not he needed to be on pro terms, if he doesn't need to be then he must qualify.

After all that though he's only 19 anyway so even if he doesn't qualify now, he will in 2 years time when he turns 21! Until then he won't be needed as a '25 man squad member' anyway.

[Majiball]

Thanks for the inspiration!

I have a feeling this way to do with employment laws and freedom of movement etc, it covers the FA while although the players can in theory be from any country they know that the majority are going to be English.

Sorry my bad I know why they can't do it but if the aim was truly to raise the standard of our kids and aid our national team, then why isn't it younger?

You could still have a squad of 25, 1 for each position +3 spares, so make it so you have to have as suggested the 8, however say 4 (random number) had to have been with any club in england or wales from say 12. That way all clubs would have to have the best four players from their academies over the generations. Less kids from abroad as the expense in moving kids of that age is bloody high and best of all its much harder to tell who the next Messi is. Because of the reasons you've mentioned above DeadlyDirk, I think clubs would be forced to invest in their youth systems and because its any club there would be rich rewards for those clubs that produce them consistently.

[Mr. E]

Out of interest I guess we have the following homegrown players....

Robinson

Dunn

Roberts

Olsson

Reid

Andrews

Judge

Treacey

Brown

Bunn

Wait a second..only half of these players have actually been with the club 3 years prior to turning 21. The others, like Roberts, Robinson and Andrews, we bought only a couple of years ago, and are far from 21. I don't think Bunn and Reid would count either. What am I missing?

[Tom]

Well that Beattie fella is home grown

*puts on tin hat*

[DeadlyDirk]

Wait a second..only half of these players have actually been with the club 3 years prior to turning 21. The others, like Roberts, Robinson and Andrews, we bought only a couple of years ago, and are far from 21. I don't think Bunn and Reid would count either. What am I missing?

As far as I'm aware they don't nessicarily have to be trained for 3 years at our club, just an English club. Champions league rules are different but that's not too much of a concern at the moment.

"The definition of home grown is trained for three years under the age of 21 by somebody in the English and Welsh professional system.

Interestingly just saw Allardyce's view on it and he's not in favour of it, here is a link.

[Mr. E]

As far as I'm aware they don't nessicarily have to be trained for 3 years at our club, just an English club. Champions league rules are different but that's not too much of a concern at the moment.

Interestingly just saw Allardyce's view on it and he's not in favour of it, here is a link.

oh. Well, that rule doesn't help much then. If it was players from your own academy it would make sense and it would force clubs to spend more money on training their own youth, instead of buying ready made.

[mellison24]

Allardyce doesn't like it either. Therefore: ITS WRONG! While it makes the strong, stronger and all that, it supposedly gives us the chance to improve the English youth....BS imo.

We'll have PLENTY of english youth coming through. It's never been a problem for us in our history has it? Young lads coming into the fore for England:

Walcott

Lennon

Milner

Also, potentially, the likes of:

Derbyshire

Ash Young

AdBonkaWhore

Downing

Bentley

Gary Cahill

Still young-ish (IN the squad NOW):

Glen Johnson

Ben Foster

Joe Hart

Robbo

Warnock

Rooney

Bent

Defoe

Jenas

Huddlestone

Still plenty of options. I think the rule is a BAD one, but which had/has good intentions.

[LeChuck]

oh. Well, that rule doesn't help much then. If it was players from your own academy it would make sense and it would force clubs to spend more money on training their own youth, instead of buying ready made.

The richer clubs would just start hoovering up talent at a younger age though, it could actually make things worse.

There would have to be much, much stricter regulations on players moving between clubs aged 12-18 if that was the rule.