[Archived] John Terry

[broadsword]

ofcourse it crosses the line, ive never said differently.! nevertheless, im not willing to jump on the bandwagon and crucify a person, solely based upon a couple of mistakes and a dramatic newspaper article.

Like the mixed metaphor.

The problem is that people aren't making a snap judgement based on a couple of "mistakes" (nice euphemism) and a dramatic newspaper article. As the saying goes, he has "previous".

[RovertheHill]

They are controllod by feelings, morals and ethics, but should be controlled by logics.

Greco, the logic is simple. The captain of England is, at the very least, meant to be the leader on the pitch, motivate the team when things are not going well and pull them together. His private life I have no general interest in - but he has done this behind the back of a supposed friend and team-mate means that to me he cannot fulfil any of the requirements as England captain at the very least.

And, if Wayne Bridge was going to be in the squad for SA in the summer (and only Capello can answer that), but feels that he cannot now for personal reasons, then Terry should ideally man-up and drop out himself, or if he is too cowardly then he should be dropped from the squad. If anyone is blameless in all of this it is Wayne Bridge. Your crusade about the shallowness of people on this moral bandwagon is actually the wrong end of the stick. We would prove ourselves to be desperately shallow if Bridge is the one who misses out simply because Terry is the "better" footballer and we are so desperate to win the world cup come what may.

[greco]

Like the mixed metaphor.

The problem is that people aren't making a snap judgement based on a couple of "mistakes" (nice euphemism) and a dramatic newspaper article. As the saying goes, he has "previous".

i thought you were busy starting a facebook group, petitioning for the execution of john terry-ble

I personally disagree with you, when you are willing to judge a person based upon a few mistakes.How bout the good thing hes done..? do they count..? seems not.

To me that shows a lack of perspective and a total lack on insight. Actually i find it quite ignorant.

so bryan, does this constitute enough proof, for me to claim, that you lack perspective, insight and seem to be ignorant..? absolutely not, while i find your stance mystifying, im well aware, that there is more to you, then JUST that.

well have to agree to disagree.

[broadsword]

i thought you were busy starting a facebook group, petitioning for the execution of john terry-ble

well have to agree to disagree.

Off with his head!

Quite happy to agree to disagree.

I'll now get back to my parsnip sandwich.

[Miker]

John Terry shouldn't be stripped of his captaincy, simply because adultery has absolutely nothing to do with football and his captaincy should be based on his values on the pitch and ability to motivate his team and keep them together. As long as the rest of the players keep Terry away from their girlfriends/wives it shouldn't be a problem

The media is the scourge of the earth and these celebrity relationship are bogus and designed for the fickle. Their personal lives shouldn't even be exposed in the press. None of us know the relationships between these players, their girlfirends/wives etc. How many celebrity marriages actually last? Most end usually with the wife getting a large share of the money. Most start with the wife getting a lot of the money. It's all for show.

I hope I live to see the day when there's no bullshit in the papers and in magazines about celebrity relationships, marriages, breakups and the like. Seriously, I don't care and neither should anyone else. I'm concerned with my own private life and I'm not going to take celebrities as role models. I take people I know who have raised amazing families and have made amazing achievements as role models, not people I don't know and couldn't care less about past their professional careers.

[RovertheHill]

I hope I live to see the day when there's no bullshit in the papers and in magazines about celebrity relationships, marriages, breakups and the like. Seriously, I don't care and neither should anyone else. I'm concerned with my own private life and I'm not going to take celebrities as role models. I take people I know who have raised amazing families and have made amazing achievements as role models, not people I don't know and couldn't care less about past their professional careers.

Unfortunately until the idiots that buy these rags stop, then you won't ever see this. Ok, Hello, Heat etc Not to mention the tabloids. Someone must buy them? Why? The other day I was queuing in WH Smiths and they line the queue with them. With no hint of irony Ok had a strapline of "First for Celebrity" and had Alex Curran and Coleen Rooney on the front. Pathetic

[MCMC1875]

John Terry shouldn't be stripped of his captaincy, simply because adultery has absolutely nothing to do with football and his captaincy should be based on his values on the pitch and ability to motivate his team and keep them together. As long as the rest of the players keep Terry away from their girlfriends/wives it shouldn't be a problem

The media is the scourge of the earth and these celebrity relationship are bogus and designed for the fickle. Their personal lives shouldn't even be exposed in the press. None of us know the relationships between these players, their girlfirends/wives etc. How many celebrity marriages actually last? Most end usually with the wife getting a large share of the money. Most start with the wife getting a lot of the money. It's all for show.

I hope I live to see the day when there's no bullshit in the papers and in magazines about celebrity relationships, marriages, breakups and the like. Seriously, I don't care and neither should anyone else. I'm concerned with my own private life and I'm not going to take celebrities as role models. I take people I know who have raised amazing families and have made amazing achievements as role models, not people I don't know and couldn't care less about past their professional careers.

Hear hear. Compare to France where no one bats an eyelid to affairs.

[philipl]

The issue here is how his England team mates take it- I have no idea whether it will be "good on yer mate" or "you dirty rat". If the latter, he hands the Captain's arm band in.

[Gav]

The execution of john terry-ble

I'd lose no sleep over that, but lets not stop at him, A Cole, J Cole and Fat Frank also please. Then I'll be able to support the national team again, and not through gritted teeth as I have to now

Good to hear Terry is losing his sponsorship deals also, I have nothing against people that sleep around, but nailing your fellow club and countryman’s missus is a step to far for me.

So much for team spirit the jumped up ****.

[Stuart]

I'd say this is as good as him being backed to keep the captaincy.

Times: Fabio Capello will decide on John Terry captaincy before Egypt game

[cletus]

Question:-

Who would you have as England Captain is Terry stood down or was ousted?

A fair few of the current squad have had their own problems off the pitch too

[Steve Moss]

John Terry shouldn't be stripped of his captaincy, simply because adultery has absolutely nothing to do with football and his captaincy should be based on his values on the pitch and ability to motivate his team and keep them together. As long as the rest of the players keep Terry away from their girlfriends/wives it shouldn't be a problem

The media is the scourge of the earth and these celebrity relationship are bogus and designed for the fickle. Their personal lives shouldn't even be exposed in the press. None of us know the relationships between these players, their girlfirends/wives etc. How many celebrity marriages actually last? Most end usually with the wife getting a large share of the money. Most start with the wife getting a lot of the money. It's all for show.

I hope I live to see the day when there's no bullshit in the papers and in magazines about celebrity relationships, marriages, breakups and the like. Seriously, I don't care and neither should anyone else. I'm concerned with my own private life and I'm not going to take celebrities as role models. I take people I know who have raised amazing families and have made amazing achievements as role models, not people I don't know and couldn't care less about past their professional careers.

Miker, I normally agree with you but this time around I don't. There is more to being an international footballer than being an excellent player on the pitch. That person is representing a nation. That person becomes a symbol. This is especially true of team captains.

Nobody forced Terry to put on the armband. He wanted it and he got it. It was his responsibility to live up to the standards expected of England's captains. He failed. Badly and repeatedly. He should step aside and Capello should find someone who is a better representative of England. If he can't, its an indictment of football in general, IMO.

And in the larger context, if it were merely a matter of skill and ability, we'd be emptying the prisons and dressing up the inmates in kits. One of the reasons I don't want Barton with the Rovers (and want rid of EHD) is the public's perception of the squad is frequently formed from the on and off the pitch behavior of the players.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Excellent post, smoss.

[DE.]

I do wonder what has prompted the media to turn en-masse on the nation's former hero "JT".

Looking at the papers from yesterday and from today, it's total character assassination. They're savaging him. I know the media love to build people up just to knock them down again to the delight of their readers - but I do wonder if there is some kind of agenda behind this. I know the papers have run stories before on Terry, but not to this extent. We've had stories about his dad being a drug dealer, his mum shoplifting, his personal tours of the Chelsea ground, and now this...

Has Terry done something to infuriate someone he shouldn't have?

I find it hard to believe this Terry hate-campaign has been instigated because the red-top media care so much about the 'pride' of being England captain and the honour of Wayne Bridge

[thenodrog]

The issue here is how his England team mates take it- I have no idea whether it will be "good on yer mate" or "you dirty rat". If the latter, he hands the Captain's arm band in.

Capello came out some time ago and banned wags from the team hotel. It's a fair chance imo that this issue was at the root of that decision.

[mellison24]

Question:-

Who would you have as England Captain is Terry stood down or was ousted?

A fair few of the current squad have had their own problems off the pitch too

I think there could be a genuine case for Wayne Rooney. He's settled with a wife and kid and doesn't get into trouble off the pitch. he's a fiery character on it, mind and while that could be a factor against him, it could be in his favour as it shows passion and commitment. On top of that, we're already pinning our whole hopes of winning the World Cup on him anyway!

[joey_big_nose]

I do wonder what has prompted the media to turn en-masse on the nation's former hero "JT".

Looking at the papers from yesterday and from today, it's total character assassination. They're savaging him. I know the media love to build people up just to knock them down again to the delight of their readers - but I do wonder if there is some kind of agenda behind this. I know the papers have run stories before on Terry, but not to this extent. We've had stories about his dad being a drug dealer, his mum shoplifting, his personal tours of the Chelsea ground, and now this...

Has Terry done something to infuriate someone he shouldn't have?

I find it hard to believe this Terry hate-campaign has been instigated because the red-top media care so much about the 'pride' of being England captain and the honour of Wayne Bridge

I magine its because a rabid blood hunt for Terry will sell more newspapers than balanced journalism.

That is the root of these things.

ps. - If Terry gets stripped it will go to either Gerrard or Rooney. Probably more likely Rooney as he is a definate starter - and now easily our best player - while Gerrard is under more pressure from Barry and Lampard for his berth.

Broadly speaking Terry has always struck me as a loathsome guy, and I do think it is problematic to have the England captain as someone who shags a team mate's wife. Despite the obvious moral and role model implications of this, it will have a massively detrimental effect on how his team mates percieve him.

[CrazyIvan]

Should he be England captain? No. Behaviour like that will not maintain team spirit or unity. Can he still play for England? That depends on good management and his teammates.

After that, it's all a debate and judgement on his character and his behaviour. Moralists will stand up (they have a right to) and say what they think, those more easy going will say something one way or the other and those that want to stand up for the player's personal rights will stand up (again they have a right to) and say it's nothing to do with anyone else but Terry, his wife, Bridge and his wife (or former wife, not sure). It's all a matter of opinion and personal judgement.

[DE.]

I magine its because a rabid blood hunt for Terry will sell more newspapers than balanced journalism.

That is the root of these things.

Of course, that goes without saying. This situation seems quite calculated and malicious, though. Most of it coming from The Sun/NOTW. Quite rare to see a footballer singled out quite so rigorously.

Strange timing as well, as making the story public could theoretically wreck the England team's morale before the World Cup. Not sure the papers can claim to be doing the England team a favour whilst making such a divisive story so public.

[JAL]

So JT has an affair with a colleagues misses, Ok, mistake for all concerned, but that mistake continues, is this OK.

Then JT gets her pregnant(allegedly)....oh dear this is getting worse.

Then JT arranges her to have an abortion (allegedly)oh dear, it really cant getting any worse.

Then the media find out.....oh dear, cant let the wife find out about this.

What do we do ...try ang gag the freedom of press.

Can a cheater really be let to lead his country on the International stage when all this is common knowledge?

[joey_big_nose]

Of course, that goes without saying. This situation seems quite calculated and malicious, though. Most of it coming from The Sun/NOTW. Quite rare to see a footballer singled out quite so rigorously.

Strange timing as well, as making the story public could theoretically wreck the England team's morale before the World Cup. Not sure the papers can claim to be doing the England team a favour whilst making such a divisive story so public.

Well my point is only that the single overiding concern will be to shift as much copy as possible. What the implications are apart from that are broadly irrelevent.

Thats why you get the "build them up knock em down" thing. Because it is such a more compelling story and narrative than a "he's a decent if unspectacular player, who has clearly always been a bit of @#/? so this is not actually that suprising" assessment which is what rationally is more accurate. People want drama. Sadly it means that the story guides the facts rather than the facts guiding the story. Being nice about the England team only makes sense if it shifts more papers.

Basically, I can't see people not buy the NOTW/Sun because of the expose, in protest at the mistreatment of Terry.

Anyhow, in this case, Terry completely deserves it imo.

[mellison24]

Terry is a tosser. End of. Always has been always will. He should never have been captain anyway imo. Up until the incident in the bar, Gerrard would be my England Captain. Since THAT it's been Wayne Rooney. A lionheart if there ever was one. What about Dunny?

[DE.]

Well my point is only that the single overiding concern will be to shift as much copy as possible. What the implications are apart from that are broadly irrelevent.

Thats why you get the "build them up knock em down" thing. Because it is such a more compelling story and narrative than a "he's a decent if unspectacular player, who has clearly always been a bit of @#/? so this is not actually that suprising" assessment which is what rationally is more accurate. People want drama. Sadly it means that the story guides the facts rather than the facts guiding the story. Being nice about the England team only makes sense if it shifts more papers.

Basically, I can't see people not buy the NOTW/Sun because of the expose, in protest at the mistreatment of Terry.

Anyhow, in this case, Terry completely deserves it imo.

I completely understand that j_b_n, i'm just surprised they picked Terry to savage so viciously.

I've always hated the "King Lionheart, icon of England" b-llocks printed regularly about him. It just seems an odd and abrupt shift for the papers - lauding over him one minute, crucifying him the next. Then again, I suppose that's ultimately how the media works. They've done a good job of building him up, now they're going to do a better job of smashing him down.

I think his attempt to take out an injunction did him no favours. Probably made things a lot worse.

[grizfoot]

Guess who won Daddies sauce "Daddy of the Year Award" for 2009?

... yes you got it right, John Terry!

[Miker]

Miker, I normally agree with you but this time around I don't. There is more to being an international footballer than being an excellent player on the pitch. That person is representing a nation. That person becomes a symbol. This is especially true of team captains.

Nobody forced Terry to put on the armband. He wanted it and he got it. It was his responsibility to live up to the standards expected of England's captains. He failed. Badly and repeatedly. He should step aside and Capello should find someone who is a better representative of England. If he can't, its an indictment of football in general, IMO.

And in the larger context, if it were merely a matter of skill and ability, we'd be emptying the prisons and dressing up the inmates in kits. One of the reasons I don't want Barton with the Rovers (and want rid of EHD) is the public's perception of the squad is frequently formed from the on and off the pitch behavior of the players.

I agree and disagree with you, mainly because I don't want to treat athletes as a representation of a nation. I just want to treat them as athletes, but if we are going to see them as representations, then maybe Terry is an accurate representation of modern English society?

My problem with all of this is the role the media play. They stick their nose into the private lives of celebrities and they stretch the truth at every corner. That's not even my issue though, my issue is that this woman has gone out and told the press about this, when it really shouldn't have been anywhere near it and dealt with in private between her, Terry and Bridge.

I might go into this further later, but I simply choose to ignore media stories that don't actually provide me with some sort of hard evidence of events. I don't want to judge these people based on their private lives, which as far as I'm concerned are fake. Football players are always dating models or some other celebrity, how come there's never any stories about them dating a childhood sweetheart or some girl working a normal job they met at a grocery store?

All of this just makes for good reading, gives people something to talk about, keeps other people in their jobs. I don't condone Terry's behaviour, in fact I'm 100% against it. I do think these are different circusmtances and challenges that we as normal people don't experience. I don't know if anyone has watched Funny People (the new Adam Sandler movie), but I thought it was an excellent movie and a very honest one. There's a line from it where he says something like "it's easy not to cheat, when you have no one to cheat with".

So yes, I don't think it's my place to judge, and I don't think Terry should be stripped of his captaincy based on his private life. It will be a problem if Terry and Bridge have to play together, but I also think they are adults and can work this out.