[Archived] Time Up Pompey?

[Tris]

Not only is the 20p in the £ a disgrace but the payment terms are disgusting. And as for the 5p dividend if Pompey get promoted- Leeds will be looking on with envy given the dividend they have to pay if they make it back to the Prem.

This is perhaps naive wishful thinking on my part, but wouldn't it be nice to open the paper one morning and read that Pompey fans or players have set up a scheme to at least pay back the local small businesses who are owed money.

The likes of St Johns Ambulance, the local butcher, primary school and florist ... it's only a few thousand quid so a tiny fraction of the total debt (and a fraction of a players weekly wage) ... I'd just like to think that somebody somewhere could see a way to pay these poor people what they are owed for honestly providing goods / services to a Premier League club.

[HemelRover]

This is perhaps naive wishful thinking on my part, but wouldn't it be nice to open the paper one morning and read that Pompey fans or players have set up a scheme to at least pay back the local small businesses who are owed money.

The likes of St Johns Ambulance, the local butcher, primary school and florist ... it's only a few thousand quid so a tiny fraction of the total debt (and a fraction of a players weekly wage) ... I'd just like to think that somebody somewhere could see a way to pay these poor people what they are owed for honestly providing goods / services to a Premier League club.

That would be great. But, never going to happen. Football fans are blameless when they're callng for the club to spend big(bigger that a club can reasonably afford) and then then still blameless when it all goes tits up.

[thenodrog]

This is perhaps naive wishful thinking on my part, but wouldn't it be nice to open the paper one morning and read that Pompey fans or players have set up a scheme to at least pay back the local small businesses who are owed money.

The likes of St Johns Ambulance, the local butcher, primary school and florist ... it's only a few thousand quid so a tiny fraction of the total debt (and a fraction of a players weekly wage) ... I'd just like to think that somebody somewhere could see a way to pay these poor people what they are owed for honestly providing goods / services to a Premier League club.

Worst thing is that they have a better than average chance of actually being Pompey supporters.

[67splitscreen]

When do they have to be out of administration by?, to avoid the points penalty in the fizzy pop.

[philipl]

When do they have to be out of administration by?, to avoid the points penalty in the fizzy pop.

New season starts 1 July.

[67splitscreen]

How much will they need to raise to actually get out of admin, 20p in the £ = circa 14m but that's paid to the creditors over an eternity.

Or would they just be in a CVA until everything is sorted and if the administrator is happy they can fulfil there obligations next season.

[Paul]

............... but wouldn't it be nice to open the paper one morning and read that Pompey fans or players have set up a scheme to at least pay back the local small businesses who are owed money.

The likes of St Johns Ambulance........

Have a good day!

[thenodrog]

Unless there has been a change of emphasis the issue that stinks most was that anybody within the world of football were I understand, deemed 'preferential creditors'.

Hmmmm...... Quite right too. Why should Watford going bust matter more than a catering company or a bus company for example?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7142953.ece

[Amo]

Hmmmm...... Quite right too. Why should Watford going bust matter more than a catering company or a bus company for example?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7142953.ece

Only Theno could quote himself in agreement!

[thenodrog]

Only Theno could quote himself in agreement!

Hey up Topman, cut me a little slack.... I edited it (hurriedly as I was off for a couple of scoops at the local) cos I quoted Den's post at first but "Yeah Gord, that stinks even more." didn't really make a lot of sense. I must agree it does sound rather conceited.

[philipl]

Looks like Pompey's plan for a Creditors' Voluntary Administration and return to normality is in deep trouble. The crunch line there is HMRC will vote against the administrator.

[Billy Castell]

Does that mean they might go under? I didn't really understand the article, but it seems another company has said it can do a better deal, if Sacha G is willing to forego his £32m. I presume that this would cause the HRMC to reject the current administrators as they believe the other guys might be able to do a better deal.

[philipl]

No it doesn't automatically lead to Pompey going under but it increases the chances they will not be out of administration on 1 July and so be facing the prospect of a ten point deduction.

I suspect the gun pointed at Gaydamak is a bit of a bluff to smoke out what exactly was going on in the four owner pass the parcel last season.

[Paul]

Looks like Pompey's plan for a Creditors' Voluntary Administration and return to normality is in deep trouble. The crunch line there is HMRC will vote against the administrator.

Apologies if I have missed the blindingly obvious but who are these Griffins people and why the sudden interest in Portsmouth? Have they been involved before or do they simply see an opportunity to offer a better deal to the creditors while making big fees along the way?

[philipl]

I'd guess one of the creditors hired them to put together a reasoned case at the creditors' meeting. By fingering Gaydamak, they are deliberately setting creditors against each other making it more difficult for Andronikou to get agreement for his plan.

Pompey were suggesting they were £60m at most in the red but it turns out they had £115m in net debts. Remember these figures are after Gaydamak paid off £60m through player sales and various re-financings.

The question has to be asked, when did the £55m of indebtedness arise that had not previously been disclosed? If as seems very likely that happened under Gaydamak's ownership, all kinds of additional questions arise including the one the creditors are raising- did Gaydamak trade illegally?

Would the people who put money in and did business with Pompey have done so had they known the true extent of indebtedness?

[gumboots]

I'd guess one of the creditors hired them to put together a reasoned case at the creditors' meeting. By fingering Gaydamak, they are deliberately setting creditors against each other making it more difficult for Andronikou to get agreement for his plan.

Pompey were suggesting they were £60m at most in the red but it turns out they had £115m in net debts. Remember these figures are after Gaydamak paid off £60m through player sales and various re-financings.

The question has to be asked, when did the £55m of indebtedness arise that had not previously been disclosed? If as seems very likely that happened under Gaydamak's ownership, all kinds of additional questions arise including the one the creditors are raising- did Gaydamak trade illegally?

Would the people who put money in and did business with Pompey have done so had they known the true extent of indebtedness?

Just noticed the creditors apart from HMRC have accepted the 20p in the pound deal. HMRC have 28 days to apeal.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

What a great message that is sending out to clubs.

Spend more than you've got and the tax man will bail you out whilst other teams who do things by the book are the ones who come off worse.

[LeChuck]

What a great message that is sending out to clubs.

Spend more than you've got and the tax man will bail you out whilst other teams who do things by the book are the ones who come off worse.

You don't seriously think anyone will try and follow what Pompey have done, do you?

Which other PL teams are worse off than Pompey? They've totally screwed up that club in the process of borrowing more than they should, unfortunately it's screwing other businesses over too.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

You don't seriously think anyone will try and follow what Pompey have done, do you?

I'd like to believe that clubs will look at Portsmouth and think twice before spending more money than they've got. Saying that, I also thought the same when Leeds United got into all that mess. I'm pretty sure we will continue to see it in the future.

[Paul]

<br />What a great message that is sending out to clubs.<br />

<br />

Spend more than you've got and the tax man will bail you out whilst other teams who do things by the book are the ones who come off worse.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

HMRC not accepting is good news, it means they are holding out for more. Which is an excellent message to send out to clubs

[American]

I'd like to believe that clubs will look at Portsmouth and think twice before spending more money than they've got. Saying that, I also thought the same when Leeds United got into all that mess. I'm pretty sure we will continue to see it in the future.

Did you also think the same when the Saints got into Administration?

[Tim Southampton Rover]

I believe any club that breaks the rules should be made to pay. Unfortunately it happened to my home town club and it was an extremely difficult time on the South Coast for everyone in Southampton especially the fans who end up having to pick up the pieces the most and also the economy in the city suffers too.

Southampton are another example of a club where they couldn't afford to pay back loans (mainly for their new ground rather than players) which contributed towards their parent company going into administration and causing Southampton to come close to folding as a football club.

They were in a situation where they had to leave The Dell (15,000 capacity) if they wanted to compete in the Premier League or risk losing their status in the top league which they held for 27 successive seasons. They moved to St Mary's Stadium, which was being paid off in installments, but Southampton could only really meet these installments if they filled their ground to capacity (32,000) each week and stayed in the Premier league.

For years they were a financially well run club punching above their weight, similar to us, and they even progressed in the league under Gordon Strachan but once they got relegated their average attendance dropped from 30,000+ to 23,000 which caused a loss on match day revenue as well as the television money from the Premier League. Then a lot of behind the scenes squabbling, numerous bizarre decisions and selling the best players to cut wages and to pay the bills meant they just couldn't afford to compete and the rest is history.

Southampton going into administration thankfully ended up being the best thing to happen to the club. It meant the people who nearly crippled the club left and an owner who has a personal fortune estimated at two-and-a-half billion pounds has taken over and is doing an amazing job at transforming the club and forming close links with the community again.

They, like Leeds, are a good example of why teams should never run a club by assuming they will be getting television money & competing at the top level (i.e. Premier League, Champions League).

[67splitscreen]

HMRC have lodged the appeal against Pompey's CVA, this means they could have to stay in administration and the transfer embargo stays in place.

I assume this also now means they will start the season with -10 points.

Could be Oct/Nov before the hearing.

My link

[philipl]

BBC is reporting the Pompey could dodge the -10. I don't know how that works exactly when other clubs took double hits when they didn't exit administration in time.

As things stand, Pompey can make two signings because they only have 18 players and are allowed 20.

It will still make for an open second level this year as none of the three relegated clubs looks to be in much shape to mount a promotion challenge because of off-field difficulties.

[thenodrog]

Southampton going into administration thankfully ended up being the best thing to happen to the club. It meant the people who nearly crippled the club left and an owner who has a personal fortune estimated at two-and-a-half billion pounds has taken over and is doing an amazing job at transforming the club and forming close links with the community again.

They, like Leeds, are a good example of why teams should never run a club by assuming they will be getting television money & competing at the top level (i.e. Premier League, Champions League).

Hardly worth crowing about when they cannot run a club down there without the input of a double billionaire. I know BRFC prob started it but football is not healthy when clubs become nothing more than rich mens playthings and success is judged on the mentality of 'our sugar daddy is bigger than your sugar daddy.