Fútbol, Le Foot, Voetbal, ποδόσφαιρο

[Exiled_Rover]

If they want to sort out the problems facing them, the big 5 leagues need to come together and agree a universal salary cap.

Paying De Bruyne £400k a week isn't sustainable.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, toogs said:

If you don't sanction they will try it again with nothing to fear or lose.

 

I think the overall reaction from players, managers, former players and fans the from the UK Government have completely shocked them. Just look at Liverpool owner John W Henry interview today. 

Also any sanctions will affect the clubs players, managers and fans who have no part in these plans. 

9 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

If they want to sort out the problems facing them, the big 5 leagues need to come together and agree a universal salary cap.

Paying De Bruyne £400k a week isn't sustainable.

If Clubs can afford those wages then fair enough. 

But clubs like Barcelona and Real Madrid are in massive debt through overpaying on transfers and wages. 

[Ewood Ace]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Also any sanctions will affect the clubs players, managers and fans who have no part in these plans. 

It still doesn't mean they should be sanctioned sides get sanctioned for going into administration but that is nothing to do with players, managers or fans either. These 6 sides must be heavily fined and deducted points. They simply cannot carry on as if nothing has happened. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[Dreams of 1995]

I cannot see how you’d be against sanctioning these people. At the end of the day they tried to destabilise football forever. They attempted to put themselves above the laws of competition. 
 

It is a no brainier in my eyes that sanctions should follow. Even if they are not club related they could be finance related. You could even make them qualify for this years Champions League as opposed to automatic - which is meaningless but will piss them off. 
 

I think the best form of punishment would be if this reform promised by so many sees a fairer method of ownership. It would also put the comments from other clubs owners on the line - do they really respect the role of fans as much as they claim? If fan ownership / board representation comes from this then it would be the ultimate punishment for 12 men who are far detached from the realities of life. 
 

I thought the Liverpool owners video apology was reticent of his ambition. He also shown a lack of understanding of what a football club is in Europe - instead focusing on the importance of “developing the company”. It was very American, and even in his apology and attempt to show he isn’t detached, he couldn’t have been any further from the everyday man if he tried. It was poor and stunk of self preservation. 
 

We are yet to hear from the rest but if they are still in football in the next 12 months then you know how sincere the promises of governments and football authorities were. 

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

 These 6 sides must be heavily fined and deducted points. They simply cannot carry on as if nothing has happened. 

I think the reaction from everyone has spooked them enough that will never happen again. 

UEFA are reforming the Champions League. 

Now we must reform the ownership of clubs and get fans involved in the ownership of clubs, on club board and give them a voice. making it law that fans must be consult and ballot if any more plans like this come forward. 

Also I am looking forward to the report from the Fans led inquiry from Tracey Crouch and what recommendations with be recommend

I also think FSG will be move force out by the Liverpool fans over the coming months and same with Kroenke at Arsenal

[RoverDom]

5 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

If they want to sort out the problems facing them, the big 5 leagues need to come together and agree a universal salary cap.

Paying De Bruyne £400k a week isn't sustainable.

Absolutely agree. Money to an extent improves football through the improvements to infrastructure, coaching etc but KDB will be just as good to watch on £100k as he would on £400k. 

Apart from being nice for him. It just puts the price up for fans in every way. Owners could maybe turn a profit if they have the same broadcast revenue but a fraction of the wage bill. 

 

[Cherry Blue]

23 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

This is surely the equivalent of a woman telling her husband she's going to move in with another bloke, and then changing her mind at the last minute.

They've made their bed now, they should be booted out 😂

Instead the big six will be applauded for for pulling out. Each owner will apologies to their own fans for being dragged into an idea that they have now pulled away from when its the wider football community who should receive an apology. 

This will make the big six even bigger when what should happen is their owners are punished. But how do you punish multi billionaires? It not their fans fault.

Of the six who took the lead? It wont happen but I recall ManU's fall into division 2 in 1974-75 and if that were to happen next season, Covid restrictions lifted (please God), one game gate receipts plus local business income would be boosted for each Championship club. 

     

[RoverDom]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Also any sanctions will affect the clubs players, managers and fans who have no part in these plans

I had no say in the running of rovers but had to sit through us being under a transfer embargo. 

 

27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If Clubs can afford those wages then fair enough

Nope. Player wages have forced up the cost of running a club which has pushed them into forming a breakaway league. 

Also it creates huge wage inflation which the big clubs and the big revenues can afford but that inflation trickles down the whole football pyramid. 

[Oldgregg86]

100k a week is more than enough for any player . Any contracts signed from 2022 should have a cap of 100k. However I’m sure there would be a way round it with bonuses and gifts etc. The problem is there is so much money sloshing around integrity is out the window and there will always be ways to manipulate the system. 
 

If the money in the game went to down to grass roots and back up the pyramid through the lower leagues it would create a better overall standard of leagues and competition, give the up and coming kids better chances and facilities impacting positively in the community and give us a better national team. Sadly it will always go to agents , top players and the few rich clubs at the top. We really could have a beautiful game if the right people cared and put the game and community before wealth and greed. It’s not like there isn’t enough to go round . Yet here we are from top to bottom riddled with debt , sharks round every corner and foreign owners who couldn’t give two shites charging ridiculous prices for tickets and shirts to the working class. It could be a game the world could be proud of instead of this shallow , hollow greed infested swamp.

I may be a dreamer but I’m not the only one 

[Cherry Blue]

On Sky news just now that Premier League trying to find out if any letter has been signed and their wish is to punish individuals not punish 6 clubs as this will punish fans which is wrong.

[chaddyrovers]

42 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

I had no say in the running of rovers but had to sit through us being under a transfer embargo. 

 

Nope. Player wages have forced up the cost of running a club which has pushed them into forming a breakaway league. 

Also it creates huge wage inflation which the big clubs and the big revenues can afford but that inflation trickles down the whole football pyramid. 

But are we shareholders of the club, if the government introduce fan ownership law then we can became part owner in the club we love. 

Its down to each club to run the club financially viable and if their owner that is willing to invest in the club through their own money and not loans from banks than I all for it. Just look at Manchester City owners and the investment they have made in the club, training ground facilities, academy and local area. We shouldn't be against people investing money in their clubs. Just look at Jack Walker and the amount of investment he made in his club. Without that we wouldn't have won the PL or the league cup. 2 of my greatest days as a Supporter of this club. 

Do Wage caps work in league 1 or 2?

[Claytons Left Boot]

It would be nice if fans of all the other clubs give the so called big six absolute hell when they play them.

A universal chant of ‘you effing greedy barstuards, you effing greedy barstuards’ throughout each game should suffice.

[Mattyblue]

43 minutes ago, Cherry Blue said:

On Sky news just now that Premier League trying to find out if any letter has been signed and their wish is to punish individuals not punish 6 clubs as this will punish fans which is wrong.

Just like the ‘individuals’ at Bolton and Wigan (and Bury) were punished instead... oh.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mattyblue

[speeeeeeedie]

34 minutes ago, Cherry Blue said:

On Sky news just now that Premier League trying to find out if any letter has been signed and their wish is to punish individuals not punish 6 clubs as this will punish fans which is wrong.

I read a snippet earlier that the clubs may have broken Premier League rules by signing on. However, the trickiness comes in deciding what to do if proven. The Prem needs the "big clubs" and all sides know that.

Docking points punishes the players - although the argument for it is that they play for that club so are tarred with the same brush. If your workplace makes a bad investment and as a result has to lay people off it's not an employee's fault if they get made redundant but they suffer with the consequences of management decisions.

Any goodwill and trust amongst between the 6 ESL wannabe's and the rest of the Prem executives has been lost. This in itself will hurt the rebel 6. They will have no leverage at all for any revenue deals. The rest may decide to split the TV money pie differently giving less to the top 6. They won't have any standing to vote against it. 

Financial incentives are the only incentive to them. Hit them there will serve them right for trying. 

Salary caps, foreign ownership limits, fan involvement,  government oversight and regulation, players paying agents,  a % of revenue into a grass roots pot, can all help the game. A rich get richer super league will not.

[RoverDom]

20 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Docking points punishes the players

But you could argue that players demanding more and more money has in part driven the owners to look at new, drastic ways of bringing money in.  

 

Edit: guess my point is that greed is the underlying cause of this and many problems in football and its more than just the owners who have greed. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by RoverDom

[RoverDom]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

But are we shareholders of the club, if the government introduce fan ownership law then we can became part owner in the club we love. 

Its down to each club to run the club financially viable and if their owner that is willing to invest in the club through their own money and not loans from banks than I all for it. Just look at Manchester City owners and the investment they have made in the club, training ground facilities, academy and local area. We shouldn't be against people investing money in their clubs. Just look at Jack Walker and the amount of investment he made in his club. Without that we wouldn't have won the PL or the league cup. 2 of my greatest days as a Supporter of this club. 

Do Wage caps work in league 1 or 2?

I'm not against investment at all. But if you have e.g. man City paying players whatever they want, that drives everyone's wages up (look how much I could earn at City, pay me that or I'm off) and this affects everyone even those outside of the PL. Wasn't Tosin, a youth player on more than most of our squad? We had to pay that because the citys of the world have driven up wages. Clubs like us have had our wage bills driven up by a lot more than our revenues have risen. 

A wage cap won't work unless it's universal across the major leagues. There's no point putting a wage cap on league 2 if all the financial resource is in the PL. That just means better players are unaffordable for league 2 increasing the quality gap. Likewise it won't work if only the PL have a cap because all the talent will sod off to Spain/Germany/Italy etc. 

Nothing against people investing in club, just the wage inflation that comes with it. A salary cap wouldn't have stopped Jack buying the club, spending on players and investing in the training facilities etc. 

 

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

But you could argue that players demanding more and more money has in part driven the owners to look at new, drastic ways of bringing money in.  

 

Edit: guess my point is that greed is the underlying cause of this and many problems in football and its more than just the owners who have greed. 

The moral argument that top level footballers earn too much money is strong. Yet from an economic point of view they are paid on the principle of scarcity therefore the market decides. 

Are they "demanding" it? Maybe, maybe not. Are they greedy? Some probably are, but all of them will take what is offered after negotiating. The club has info, the player has info, the agent has info. That all comes together and a price is set.

I've no idea how true it is but I do like the old Seth Johnson transfer story. He was going to Leeds from Derby. He and his agent were going to ask for £20K per week. In walks Ridsdale and says; "How about £30K per week Seth?" He was hardly going to say no was he?

Clubs are in it to win trophies, therefore they need the best players who cost more.

The sheer amount of money washing around the game due to billionaire owners, massive TV deals, merchandising and the like is allowing this to happen. If the money is contributing to cheaper tickets, better facilities, nicer grounds then great, but it doesn't seem to be.

[Exiled_Rover]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

But are we shareholders of the club, if the government introduce fan ownership law then we can became part owner in the club we love. 

Its down to each club to run the club financially viable and if their owner that is willing to invest in the club through their own money and not loans from banks than I all for it. Just look at Manchester City owners and the investment they have made in the club, training ground facilities, academy and local area. We shouldn't be against people investing money in their clubs. Just look at Jack Walker and the amount of investment he made in his club. Without that we wouldn't have won the PL or the league cup. 2 of my greatest days as a Supporter of this club. 

Do Wage caps work in league 1 or 2?

No-one is saying they can't invest in clubs.

The proposal is that the annual salary of your top 25 players can only reach a certain agreed amount (the same across the Big 5 European leagues) - whatever that is (I'm not party to the annual turnover of these clubs or salaries of these players).

The only reason they've tried to breakaway into an invitation only league is because they feel like they can earn more revenue. Evidently they can't afford the players current salaries. 

 

And if that means De Bruyne goes to play in China, good luck to him. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Exiled_Rover

[RoverDom]

44 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

The moral argument that top level footballers earn too much money is strong. Yet from an economic point of view they are paid on the principle of scarcity therefore the market decides. 

Are they "demanding" it? Maybe, maybe not. Are they greedy? Some probably are, but all of them will take what is offered after negotiating. The club has info, the player has info, the agent has info. That all comes together and a price is set.

I've no idea how true it is but I do like the old Seth Johnson transfer story. He was going to Leeds from Derby. He and his agent were going to ask for £20K per week. In walks Ridsdale and says; "How about £30K per week Seth?" He was hardly going to say no was he?

Clubs are in it to win trophies, therefore they need the best players who cost more.

The sheer amount of money washing around the game due to billionaire owners, massive TV deals, merchandising and the like is allowing this to happen. If the money is contributing to cheaper tickets, better facilities, nicer grounds then great, but it doesn't seem to be.

Of course this will be happening from a load of different angles. In some cases players will demand more in some cases clubs will give players bumper contracts without being asked. It's in no way all the players fault but they're not entirely blameless. 

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, RoverDom said:

I'm not against investment at all. But if you have e.g. man City paying players whatever they want, that drives everyone's wages up (look how much I could earn at City, pay me that or I'm off) and this affects everyone even those outside of the PL. Wasn't Tosin, a youth player on more than most of our squad? We had to pay that because the citys of the world have driven up wages. Clubs like us have had our wage bills driven up by a lot more than our revenues have risen. 

A wage cap won't work unless it's universal across the major leagues. There's no point putting a wage cap on league 2 if all the financial resource is in the PL. That just means better players are unaffordable for league 2 increasing the quality gap. Likewise it won't work if only the PL have a cap because all the talent will sod off to Spain/Germany/Italy etc. 

Nothing against people investing in club, just the wage inflation that comes with it. A salary cap wouldn't have stopped Jack buying the club, spending on players and investing in the training facilities etc. 

 

I don't know how much Tosin was on then or now. 

European leagues wont be in favour of a salary cap across all leagues. 

Clubs need to financial sound and not over pay the players. But if Clubs like Man City can afford to pay that wages then fair enough. I dont have a problem with it. 

3 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

No-one is saying they can't invest in clubs.

The proposal is that the annual salary of your top 25 players can only reach a certain agreed amount (the same across the Big 5 European leagues) - whatever that is (I'm not party to the annual turnover of these clubs or salaries of these players).

The only reason they've tried to breakaway into an invitation only league is because they feel like they can earn more revenue. Evidently they can't afford the players current salaries. 

Maybe annual salary maybe 60/80 percent of turnover. 

They have tried this to get more income for them and guarantee income each season. 3 of these 6 British clubs won't be the champions league next season. Chelsea and Manchester City owners can afford to cover the losses.

If you look at Juventus, Barcelona and Real are in debt those poor financial decisions they make but it doesnt stop Real Madrid offering big wage salary to David Alaba to sign there in the summer when he is a free agent. 

Can Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal owners cover the losses for next season when they aren't in the champions league?

[JacknOry]

Tottenham joining a European Super League is like Bananaman getting called up as an Avenger.

[Mike E]

The whole thing reeked of a load of pissheads going on a night out before asking their partners if it was alright.

[MarkBRFC]

A "British Super League" including Rangers and Celtic, and a 4 team end of season play off to decide the league winners is the latest thing doing the rounds apparently 🙄

[AllRoverAsia]

I see that RM, Barcelona and Juve are still at the forefront of pushing for the ESL concept and unapologetic.

They have severe financial problems and want the riches that they believe the coup will bring.

Basically an uncompetitive closed shop and to feck with the rest of football across the globe, not just in Europe.

The American system lends itself to this level of self interest and greed so onboard come ManUre, Liverpool and Arsenal.

This coup would have and may still yet destroy the fabric of Football at all levels.

I have just watched Tim Sherwood on Sky saying its over, forgive everyone including the owners and move on without any punitive action at all. Tosser.

I don't want to see fans or indeed players punished so it's down to (new) regulators and Governement action.

Also time for UEFA and FIFA to show some balls and for them not to allow themselves to be bullied by a few loudmouthed owners, mainly at the moment Spanish.

An excuse for the coup has been a desire to break into a new audience of people aged 24 or younger who currently don't watch football. Melissa on Sky debunked that fantasy in seconds.

European football is already televised worldwide and I can access just about every league and game if so inclined.

This is all about money, greed and the control of TV rights and nothing to do with football development.

Give it a few months and the pariahs will be back.

Edited April 23, 2021 by AllRoverAsia

[den]

What the American owners in particular want, is the ability to stage show matches around Asia. They really don’t want any competition. They don’t want competitive football of any type. They simply want to sell their brand for as high a price that they can, to anyone who will pay it.