[Archived] Liverpool In Difficulties

[neekoy]

A slightly less apocleptic picture for January.... but still leaves £350m to be found in the summer whilst Gillet and Hicks are both being squeezed back across the Atlantic.

Hi Phillip,

Any update to this now we are in February?

[philipl]

Summarising one or two posts which went into other threads when this one was unsearchable:

1) The facility which expired in January had a clause which allowed for extension to July and that has been successfully invoked.

2) The cost of extending it was massive and it involved Hicks and Gillett reaching into their own pockets as a pre-requisite for the extension. They had bought Liverpool with perhaps as little as £20m of their own money being committed but now I believe they have had to put £50m of their own cash in to buy the banks' six month loan extension which probably came at the cost of a hefty arrangement fee and interest hike if interest was not previously fixed.

3) Other debts mature in the summer so a total of £350m needs to be found and of course the new stadium is nowhere.

4) Gillett and Hicks have retained seperate financial advisers to sell the club which is actually quite smart in one way as they will be competing with each other to get the deal.

5) DIC is having its own challenges in the downturn so is not coming back to the table. The Kuwaitis look like they will be the only bidders. Something worth watching- the Kuwaitis were worth £8bn before the downturn so are certain to be worth much less on paper now- if they are "only" down to £4bn they will have done well. The talk of Liverpool being worth £500m today is rubbish and I cannot see the Kuwaitis committing over 10% of their worth to buying a football club.

6) This will go right to the deadline in all likelihood and Gillett and Hicks at the moment are facing a big loss on LIverpool. Both of them were liquidating assets in North America recently. Whoever buys Liverpool is facing £350m of debt which bought nothing except something you don't want- Hicks and Gillett! The eventual deal will probably involve everyone including the banks taking a haircut which is probably why the banks took £50m off Gillett and Hicks now.

7) The sums will be being done for buying LFC off an administrator. I am not saying that will happen (in fact it won't) but every party will have worked out what they can get in an administration and that will be the floor price for everything in June and July.

8) I believe the Robbie Keane saga started before Christmas when Liverpool went with tail between legs to Spurs and asked to reschedule the payments for the balance on the transfer of Keane. The reason why the original fee was so high was not only paying off for the tap-up but because Liverpool had to pay for generous staged payment terms.

Spurs have not paid a penny in cash to bring Keane back and I believe that the "add ons" to Keane's basic fee are in effect cancellation of future payments still due to Spurs contingent upon Keane performing for Spurs.

[philipl]

There are reports that Hicks' interests are in default on their loan payments.

Perhaps Gillett is moving in for the kill with his sale of the Montreal franchise?

That will make the folks at LFC who sided with Hicks feel very nervous. I noticed the soon to be departed Rick Parry was very visible at Stamford Bridge last night.

This saga has plenty of twists in it yet but has to be resolved this summer. Paradoxically, LFC will probably come out of the situation stronger although whether the new Anfield gets built is a very moot point- at least construction costs have fallen.

[philipl]

Couldn't resist this- must have cught 'drogitis.

However, I won't dig out some of the posts which mocked me.

Where we go from here? Equal probability on

1. Hick and Gillett both sell

2. One of Hick and Gillett sells and a new co-owner comes in.

3. The £350m debt gets re-financed and Hick and Gillett limp on at LFC after putting about $40m each more into the club. Banks are getting remarkably chirpier and the deal they did with Hicks and Gillett is so good they are unlikely to see a safer higher yielding place to park £300m plus fat fees.

Under scenario 1. LFC roar back. Under 2. and 3, LFC are more or less crippled and the so and sos will be shopping in our market place. That said, given the lack of quality in many of Rafa's past £10m ish buys, he might get better quality if forced to shop with a tighter budget.

[DE.]

Unless Hick and Gillett sell this summer, liverpool won't be challenging next season with their current financial concerns. This season was probably their best opportunity to finally win the Premiership and they blew it. Would be surprised if they finished above Utd, Chelsea, or even City next year. Arsenal will depend on what they spend over the summer.

[Hughesy]

Liverpool wont win the league any time soon unless they strengthen quite abit and United lose Ronaldo.

[tcj_jones]

I must admit, that Alonso is being heavily linked with a move away is just deserts for Rafa and perfect example of his deficiencies as manager. Only last summer he wanted to sell Alonso (in his footballing prime and one of very few Tugay-esc players remaining in the game) in order to finance a move for Gareth Barry, a year older. He failed to get Barry and Alonso was forced to stay.

The season of his life later and Xabi looks set to move on. Rafa can have only himself to blame.

That the best Liverpool have been linked with is Tuncay is indicative of the situation Liverpool find themselves in and the manner in which Rafa will throw hefty sums of cash around for mediocre players who will barely improve what he already has. Stop throwing £5, 10 or 15m around and spend big on players who are actually worth it! Rafa complained recently that Liverpool just cannot compete with UTD in the transfer market. That might be the case now, but if you look at the amount Liverpool have spent during Rafa's stint in charge, it amounts to a small fortune!

It baffles me how the Liverpool fans want this guy around so badly!

[DE.]

They're now aiming for Distin.... that's their level, in the current financial climate.

[Billy Castell]

Ouch. He's hardly trophy winning material.

[gumboots]

Anyone listening to the idiot Durham on talksport suggesting that Liverpool are so important to football that if they go under and can't find a way of restructuring their debt or a buyer then the FA should buy them? Who the heck does he think the FA gets its money from - presumably it comes from the clubs themselves. so why should my club with no money to spare be bailing out Liverpool just because their owners can't sort out their business properly? If they go under, they go under as far as I'm concerned, and serves them right.

[LeChuck]

Only last summer he wanted to sell Alonso (in his footballing prime and one of very few Tugay-esc players remaining in the game)

Alonso is such a strange player. Whenever they show the stats for who has covered the most ground, Alonso is always the top Liverpool player - even ahead of Kuyt. Yet whenever you watch him it just seems like he sits in front of the back four passing the ball around. He must have fantastic off-the-ball positional sense, constantly filling in gaps and covering other players.

[blue phil]

However, I won't dig out some of the posts which mocked me.

Even you wouldn't have the time to dig all them out ....

I'm going to make a very bold prediction ......

......Liverpool will survive

Unfortunately

[Stuart]

Anyone listening to the idiot Durham on talksport suggesting that Liverpool are so important to football that if they go under and can't find a way of restructuring their debt or a buyer then the FA should buy them? Who the heck does he think the FA gets its money from - presumably it comes from the clubs themselves. so why should my club with no money to spare be bailing out Liverpool just because their owners can't sort out their business properly? If they go under, they go under as far as I'm concerned, and serves them right.

Yes, I heard that too. Odd that he didn't mention anything about saving Stanley. A feat which would be considerably cheaper.

Having said the majority of the "opinions" expressed on Talksport are to generate lots of callers so I don't worry about it too much.

[gumboots]

Yes, I heard that too. Odd that he didn't mention anything about saving Stanley. A feat which would be considerably cheaper.

Having said the majority of the "opinions" expressed on Talksport are to generate lots of callers so I don't worry about it too much.

Neither do I - I just turn him off - Nobody could be that stupid in reality though could they?

[Fylde Coast Fan]

A couple of Liverpool fans (and an Arsenal fan) I know are openly mocking the idea that Liverpool will be "allowed" to do a Leeds because "they're too important to football". I increasingly hope they do, just because I like to feel smugly superior, even though I know deep down that they're right - the Government will bail them out if need be. When our Prime Minister is under fire from every angle and appears on GMTV to express concern for a reality show contestant, anything is possible.

[RovertheHill]

A couple of Liverpool fans (and an Arsenal fan) I know are openly mocking the idea that Liverpool will be "allowed" to do a Leeds because "they're too important to football". I increasingly hope they do, just because I like to feel smugly superior, even though I know deep down that they're right - the Government will bail them out if need be. When our Prime Minister is under fire from every angle and appears on GMTV to express concern for a reality show contestant, anything is possible.

Surely not - at a time when the government won't help bail out a major car manufacturer why would it bail out a football club - with a sizeable chunk of that money going into ridiculously wealthy players pockets. Not a chance - there'd be an absolute outcry

[gumboots]

Surely not - at a time when the government won't help bail out a major car manufacturer why would it bail out a football club - with a sizeable chunk of that money going into ridiculously wealthy players pockets. Not a chance - there'd be an absolute outcry

There already is about most of what the government do, hence their losing control of councils up and down the country. So what difference would one more bad decision make?

[Mattyblue]

Neither do I - I just turn him off - Nobody could be that stupid in reality though could they?

Durham just makes me laugh, all his credibility as a 'journalist', 'broadcaster', whatever went out the window years ago. Just a puppet of that hideous TalkSport enterprise.

In an hour, they'll fit in 4 ad breaks, the traffic twice (sponsored), a competition 3 times (sponsored), the news and sport twice (sponsored), Ian Wright's laughter (constant) and Durham purposely concocting the most ludicrous opinions imaginable to generate calls.

[leftfooter]

"...There's no way anybody is going to lend the Americans that kind of money when the club is in such deep debt,..." self appointed guardian of the morals of Liverpool FC and all-round professional Scouser Rogan Taylor told BBC Radio 5 Live. He went on to say "…Lets get rid of these American no-marks and get on with life…"

Gillett & Hicks are Americans. So what? They run Liverpool FC as a business in the interests of the business and themselves of course. Obviously LFC's highest Premier League point's total and record turnover is not enough for him.

Rogan Taylor appears to bear an animosity to Hicks and Gillett, and like many cod European academics seems to dislike Americans and capitalism in general. So much so it seems, he can't even bear to refer to Hicks and Gillett by name. It's hard to imagine however, it being acceptable in polite circles to refer to the nationality of a club's owners in such a manner. 'Let's get rid of these Asian no-marks' wouldn't go down to well at the Beeb I'd wager. He wasn't challenged about this reference to nationality by the BBC of course.

Dubai International Capital (DIC) are thought to be the favourites to buy out Hicks and Gillett. This is the same Dubai, where a British woman was recently jailed for adultery, that keeps a virtual slave army of third world workers and routinely tortures and incarcerates dissenters. Of course Rogan would probably explain all this by saying that it would be wrong for us to expect the same standards from them that we do from ourselves. He'd rationalise it I imagine by arguing that people who happen to live in the third world do not have the same rights to life and liberty as those in the west; which is to say the lives of people in the third world are worth less than the lives of people in Liverpool.

Taylor appears to favour a takeover by DIC. That would, no doubt, keep man of the people Rogan 'Josh' Taylor very happy. But even if things where to go pear-shaped on Merseyside, I doubt we would hear him on the BBC constantly referring to them as 'these Arabs'.

[RevidgeBlue]

Anyone listening to the idiot Durham on talksport suggesting that Liverpool are so important to football that if they go under and can't find a way of restructuring their debt or a buyer then the FA should buy them? Who the heck does he think the FA gets its money from - presumably it comes from the clubs themselves. so why should my club with no money to spare be bailing out Liverpool just because their owners can't sort out their business properly? If they go under, they go under as far as I'm concerned, and serves them right.

Very annoyed with myself today. I know the guy deliberately takes up outrageous positions to get people wasting money phoning and texting in but he so incensed me today with that I wasted 50p texting in.

Using the logical extension of his argument, when a Club outside the Prem League overspends and goes into administration etc, not only should they not be docked 10 points, they should also be bailed out by the footballing authorities!.

[gumboots]

Very annoyed with myself today. I know the guy deliberately takes up outrageous positions to get people wasting money phoning and texting in but he so incensed me today with that I wasted 50p texting in.

Using the logical extension of his argument, when a Club outside the Prem League overspends and goes into administration etc, not only should they not be docked 10 points, they should also be bailed out by the footballing authorities!.

Ah, but he did say no to that when Micky Quinn asked him because "other teams are not national institutions"! Darren Gough, self confessed Liverpool fan had it right when he said that would just encourage bad management and they should just take the consequences of their own actions. Fortunately I arrived home before he really wound me up or i too might have wasted my cash.

[DE.]

I'd be stunned if Liverpool went under. It'd be hilarious, but I can't see it happening. They'd end up getting bailed out in the end, one way or the other.

[Kelbo]

Liverpool,City, pompy Chelsea etc, Ifully expect the bubbe toburst and leave them all with huge debts!

Even the bigger clubs, there is little chance of rturn fr the investment!

[philipl]

Gillett and Hicks did a Glazer

An interesting point for all the folks berating the Trust about selling.

Moores sold out in part for his £90m but also to get an owner to take the club to the next level. They succeded in that but the next level currently is going to be downwards.

[Ronin]

I don't see it ever happening, but it would be funny for Liverpool (and any of the Sky4 with their huge debts for that matter) getting 10 points deducted for going into administration. But as has been mentioned, they'll probably get bailed out some way or another