[Archived] Souness Vs Hughes Vs Ince Vs Allardyce

[Iceman]

There has been a little debate, as to who was or is the better manager. I will kind of rule Ince out, although some still love him.

For me, Souey was a character, and got the best out of players. However, too aggressive in his approach to management and fell out with players. Won us the league up, which we still remember.

Hughes, well Mr Bargain was terrific at finding cheap players, who turned out fantastic for us. Took us to a few semi's and into Europe, but the manner in which he left still fresh in the memory.

Ince, wrong choice at the wrong time. Inexperienced, and easily cracked under pressure. Nervous wreck during interviews, and no management skills. Terrible signings, apart from maybe Robinson.

Allardyce, should have been appointed ahead of Ince imo. Best manager to work with limited funds, although the signing of Salgado still has a question mark to it. Did the business, by keeping us up. We should have pushed on this season, but its gone a bit pear shaped. The only manager imo, who has brought in youngsters, and given them a chance.

Your thoughts guys...

[Bobby G]

I still enjoyed the Souness tenure the most during our modern era at the club. The best football on show from the club during the season we almost made the Champions League.

It was the last time I remember consistently having "hope" that we can break into the big clubs league.

Hughes stabilized us and brought back the feeling that we wouldnt lose any game we go into and were capable of coming away with a draw at least. We rarely lost against teams we shouldnt do and surprised some of the bigger teams once in a while.

Ince was the worst mistake in our history and Allardyce was the logical choice after him. Considering the resources at our disposal and the sell sell mentality I am not too sure if someone else could be doing a better job with what we have here at the club.

Only way we will turn for the up is if the board decide to spend money again. Otherwise it will be relegation sooner rather than later. We are fading away quickly and have cemented ourselves in the bottom half of the league over the last two years.

[Mr. E]

When all is said and done, I have a hard time believing how anyone can answer anything other than Souness. Yes things didn't end well by far, but he took us from a mid-table Division 1 (Championship) plight back into the Premiership, got us playing some great football with which we outplayed some of the best teams in the league, won us the Carling Cup, got us into Europe. Some say "well he had so much money to spend", as if Andy Cole at 8 million made all the difference. Give me a break. The man achieved something amazing with the club, no questions asked.

[jim mk2]

Allardyce did the business, by keeping us up. We should have pushed on this season, but its gone a bit pear shaped.

Pear-shaped because we had a bad day at Stoke ?

The club are in 12th place, higher than we were at the same stage last season and have reached the semi-finals of the league cup. Given a fair wind we should finish the season in comfprtable mid-season.

If you think that's pear-shaped you're a lemon.

[Bobby G]

Jim we have been lucky that all the teams below us are just as rubbish as we are and cant pick up points. We have picked up 7 points recently and none of those teams have had such form, and its not even breathtaking form. However, they will all be due a run sooner or later, and that's when we could be a bit uncomfortable.

[jim mk2]

When all is said and done, I have a hard time believing how anyone can answer anything other than Souness. .

Souness was lucky to inherit alot of young, talented players (Dunn, Duff, Jansen etc) and finally jumped ship to Newcastle with the club in serious decline and facing relegation after some disastrous transfer dealings and disputes with senior members of the squad. The club was in alot worse state when he left than we he arrived.

Hughes jumped ship with the club riding high in the league and with a talented squad of players many of whom he had recruited for very little money.

[Bobby G]

A lot worse state when Souness left? Oh alright, near the bottom of the Premier League after 5 games gone is worse than mid-table in the Championship almost a third of the way through.

[American]

Pear-shaped because we had a bad day at Stoke ?

The club are in 12th place, higher than we were at the same stage last season and have reached the semi-finals of the league cup. Given a fair wind we should finish the season in comfprtable mid-season.

If you think that's pear-shaped you're a lemon.

And we're only 3 points above Hull, which shows how perilous 12th is, especially with our run at the end of the season.

Souness was lucky to inherit alot of young, talented players (Dunn, Duff, Jansen etc) and finally jumped ship to Newcastle with the club in serious decline and facing relegation after some disastrous transfer dealings and disputes with senior members of the squad. The club was in alot worse state when he left than we he arrived.

Hughes jumped ship with the club riding high in the league and with a talented squad of players many of whom he had recruited for very little money.

Dunn, Duff and Jansen haven't been near the players since they left Souness' management. Also, when Hughes jumped ship, we still had Brad, MGP, Emerton and Tugay as mainstays of our squad, all bought for relatively small amounts by Souness.

[Guest Kamy100]

Souness - A legend in my book. Got us promoted, Won us a cup and helped re-establish us to a Premier League side. He also played a very good brand of foootball and his team that won the worthington cup was superb. He also gave the likes of Duff and Dunn opportunties in the first place and managed to get the best out of Matt Jansen. His signings of Friedal and Tuguy was inspired. Things in the end went a bit pear shaped but for me that doesn't take away from the great job he did and even now he talks well of the club.

Hughes - Did a magnificent job. He came in when the team was struggling and over a period of years built a very good squad which consistently finished in the top 8, all of this was done on shoe string budget. When he first came in he adopted a "dogs of war" style, but by the team he left we had a team that played attractive football. He was also a master of the transfer market, virtually all of the players he signed were a success (Samba, Nelson, Warnock, McCarthy, Bentley, Roque Santa Cruz and Bellamy are a few examples) and most were sold for a considerable profit. He still remains one of the best managers out there.

Ince - Disaster from start to finish.

Allardyce - An interesting one. He managed to keep us in the premier league last season, that was a minor miracle. This year the team is 12th in the league, he has been criticised for the style of football and his general approach. I feel that most of that criticism has been justified, some of the football served up has been atrocious and we might as well not turn up for away games. However, one thing that you cannot argue against is that when we have REALLY needed to get results Sam has delivered. We have a realistic chance of finishing between 10th - 12th place and he can point to the fact that he very nearly got us to a major final. He is working on a very limited budget and generally his sugnings have done ok. Under Sam we are at a cross roads, the next three weeks are crucial, 2 wins and we will be comfortable again in midtable, however poor results and it will be back into a relegation dogfight. The time to judge Sam will be at the end of the season.

[jim mk2]

And we're only 3 points above Hull, which shows how perilous 12th is, especially with our run at the end of the season.

Dunn, Duff and Jansen haven't been near the players since they left Souness' management. Also, when Hughes jumped ship, we still had Brad, MGP, Emerton and Tugay as mainstays of our squad, all bought for relatively small amounts by Souness.

And if we beat Hull we're 6 points above them.

Dunn's career has been wrecked by injury, Duff chose the filty lucre at Chelsea and Jansen fell off a motor bike in Rome, none of whose alleged decline in form can be attributible to the departure of Souness.

Souness paid around £2m for each of Pedersen, Tugay and Emerton, all good signings but not inconsiderable sums at the time.

[Bobby G]

I disagree that we played attractive football under Hughes. We never did. But it wasnt hoof ball either.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Souness did wonders, however he tainted his reputation due to his man management and how he dragged the club towards relegation in his last two years. However, it cant be forgotten the talent he bought and the success he brought in his first 3 years here.

Hughes. Greatest manager since Dalglish. To have kept us up was one thing but to rebuild the squad from top to bottom and buy in some genuine world class talent was another. Bringing in the likes of Bentley, Bellamy, Santa Cruz, McCarthy, Warnock, Samba, Nelsen alone has kept this club in touch with the top 6 of this league and gave us finances we couldnt have dreamt of beforehand. For Hughes to pick up the squad he inherited from Souey and manage to break into the top 6 a year later was incredible. The legacy of Hughes and the squad he left when he departed shows how great a job the man did.

Allardyce. Has done as much as he could have realistically have done with the financial constraints. We got lucky with Hughes and i still feel that some fans need to tone down their expectations of where we are as a club. To finish anywhere near the top 10 nowadays would be a great finish. Allardyce is managing Rovers in a different football world to the ones both Hughes and Souey managed in.

[47er]

Souness - A legend in my book. Got us promoted, Won us a cup and helped re-establish us to a Premier League side. He also played a very good brand of foootball and his team that won the worthington cup was superb. He also gave the likes of Duff and Dunn opportunties in the first place and managed to get the best out of Matt Jansen. His signings of Friedal and Tuguy was inspired. Things in the end went a bit pear shaped but for me that doesn't take away from the great job he did and even now he talks well of the club.

Hughes - Did a magnificent job. He came in when the team was struggling and over a period of years built a very good squad which consistently finished in the top 8, all of this was done on shoe string budget. When he first came in he adopted a "dogs of war" style, but by the team he left we had a team that played attractive football. He was also a master of the transfer market, virtually all of the players he signed were a success (Samba, Nelson, Warnock, McCarthy, Bentley, Roque Santa Cruz and Bellamy are a few examples) and most were sold for a considerable profit. He still remains one of the best managers out there.

Ince - Disaster from start to finish.

Allardyce - An interesting one. He managed to keep us in the premier league last season, that was a minor miracle. This year the team is 12th in the league, he has been criticised for the style of football and his general approach. I feel that most of that criticism has been justified, some of the football served up has been atrocious and we might as well not turn up for away games. However, one thing that you cannot argue against is that when we have REALLY needed to get results Sam has delivered. We have a realistic chance of finishing between 10th - 12th place and he can point to the fact that he very nearly got us to a major final. He is working on a very limited budget and generally his sugnings have done ok. Under Sam we are at a cross roads, the next three weeks are crucial, 2 wins and we will be comfortable again in midtable, however poor results and it will be back into a relegation dogfight. The time to judge Sam will be at the end of the season.

We were never had this vast contrast between home and away from home under Hughes or Souness though and the quality of football played was generally higher. Certainly more goals. Ince I don't want to comment on, I just want to forget.

[darwenblueswearehere]

And if we beat Hull we're 6 points above them.

Dunn's career has been wrecked by injury, Duff chose the filty lucre at Chelsea and Jansen fell off a motor bike in Rome, none of whose alleged decline in form can be attributible to the departure of Souness.

Souness paid around £2m for each of Pedersen, Tugay and Emerton, all good signings but not inconsiderable sums at the time.

Agree with the vast majority of this - the points about departing players being particularly valid.

Where I would differ slightly is over Tugay. I thought it was nearer £1million we paid for him (I may be wrong, I haven't checked) and ask any Rangers fan what they think the worst piece of business their club ever got involved in was. Okay, maybe the second worst (£12 mill for Tore Andre Flo probably tops Tugay's bargain sale!!??). They couldn't believe that they sold the wee man in the first place, never mind only got around a mill for him (which in those days, in fact, wasn't considered a considerable sum, in football-crazy terms).

In terms of this debate - I remember Souness's tenure most fondly - who can forget Cardiff, Deepdale or putting the Dingles to the sword twice?

Having said that, short of actually winning something, Mark Hughes' tenure was nigh-on perfect in terms of the cycle of football management. Four years is generally regarded as the optimum period of time (Fergie excepted). Even Wenger & Benitez are losing it now, both probably overstayed their welcome. Sparky worked miracles at Ewood, something that Ince, much as I despise him, had little chance of emulating, partly because he lacked experience and partly because he arrived at the end of one of those 'cycles'. Fergie recognises this and rebuilds teams after every 4 or 5 years.

Rovers need to work out what they want for the future - Prem League survival (aka struggle) or entertainment for supporters. Big Sam is doing pretty much what he was brought in to do, but sadly the one thing this is guaranteed to do is drive people away. Even at a tenner a ticket who is gonna freeze their wotsits off every week watching pub-team football?

I suppose this is a long-winded way of saying, Souness just edges Hughes because of promotion & trophies, Allardyce is a distant third, and Ince an even further distant 4th.

[RoversSG]

Hmm, this seems like a "Best Rovers Manager of the decade" type of poll.

For me, it's probably Souness. We played some terrific football with Dunn, Duff, Jansen then and won our only trophy in the decade under him. Pity it all went pear-shaped in the end but at least the man helped us one last time but getting us compensation from Newcastle when we were probably going to sack him anyway.

Hughes was good but his teams never had the attacking style of Souness teams and i think the way he behaved in the last season and in the aftermath of his departure left a sour taste in the mouth.

Ince - Has there been a worse manager for Rovers?

Allardyce - He did well last season steadying the ship but so far, i'm very disappointed with how he failed to build on that and how often our team collapses after conceding the first goal. Isn't he supposed to have a reputation for building "hard to beat" sides?

[darwenblueswearehere]

Yes there has been a worse manager than Ince - Take your pick from John Pickering, Jim Iley or Brian Kidd

[XLM]

Souness was lucky to inherit alot of young, talented players (Dunn, Duff, Jansen etc) and finally jumped ship to Newcastle with the club in serious decline and facing relegation after some disastrous transfer dealings and disputes with senior members of the squad. The club was in alot worse state when he left than we he arrived.

My God...

Who let you out?

We were struggling in Division 1 when he took over. I don't think I need to say more on the topic to show you're talking rubbish.

Souness paid around £2m for each of Pedersen, Tugay and Emerton, all good signings but not inconsiderable sums at the time.

I would use those figures to praise the man. The market at the time was exploding, £2m was nothing. I think Emerton was closer to £5m, my memory could be failing me though. Still money well spent.

I'd say Souness was the best, exciting and successful football. Even when we were in Division 1 we were a good side, I remember us going to Anfield in the FA Cup and playing them off the park. We won 1-0, a goal from Nathan Blake I think...

And 5-0 against Burnley!

Ince and BFS have been tragic, solid top 10 side pushing for Europe every season to a crap team playing worse football in 2 seasons. We don't even play the bad football well, we're sh1t at the football we play and yet we still persist with it, I suppose at least with Ince we were crap at good football.

[Alan75]

. Even when we were in Division 1 we were a good side, I remember us going to Anfield in the FA Cup and playing them off the park. We won 1-0, a goal from Nathan Blake .

If my memory isnt playing tricks Tony Parks was manager at the time.

For style of football, Souness

For man management and belief that we would win every game Hughes

For total incompetance Ince

For boring football, self opinionated, stubburn and poor tactical awareness the Bolton supporter.

[47er]

Far and away the best manager of these three was Hughes. I think he is probably the best manager we have ever had in the modern era. dalglish is a legend but he had Jack's money. I find it hard to fairly compare Souness and allardyce because the financial siuation of the club has declined so much since Souness' day. However till it all fell apart for Souness we did play some great football.

And "yes" the Cup success at Anfield was pre-Souness.

[Bobby G]

Emerton joined for circa 2.2m to 2.5m.

[jim mk2]

. I don't think I need to say more on the topic to show you're talking rubbish.

I'd say Souness was the best, exciting and successful football.

Ince and BFS have been tragic, solid top 10 side pushing for Europe every season to a crap team playing worse football in 2 seasons. We don't even play the bad football well, we're sh1t at the football we play and yet we still persist with it, I suppose at least with Ince we were crap at good football.

And you are ?

Souness left the club in dire straits and heading for relegation. Great day out at Cardiff but in the end he was destroying the club single-handedly with poor man-management and transfer dealings.

Not in the same league as Hughes who left the club far stronger than he found it.

Ince was a fool who should never have been appointed.

To say "BFS" is "tragic" when he saved Rovers from relegation last season, steered Rovers into a cup semi-final and has the club currently sitting well placed in 12th position is idiotic.

Apart from that, good post.

[Iceman]

Pear-shaped because we had a bad day at Stoke ?

The club are in 12th place, higher than we were at the same stage last season and have reached the semi-finals of the league cup. Given a fair wind we should finish the season in comfprtable mid-season.

If you think that's pear-shaped you're a lemon.

Jim ive had no problems with you or anybody on this message board, your views and opinions are respected by me. However, its okay to compare us at this stage of the season to last year. Last year, Sam took over when Ince made a complete mockery of the club and steered us to safety. This season, he started off fresh and unless you feel totally comfortable with our current position then I have no problem with that.

The fact of the matter is, that we are only 3 points ahead of Hull, 6 IF we beat them. Most of the teams below us, have games in hand over us. Granted, that they still have to win them, I would maintain that thus far the season has gone pear shaped. We far too inconsistent under Allardyce, and compared to the football under Souey it makes for awful viewing watching the Allardyce football.

with Hughes we never went to a top 4 club, and rolled over like we doing now. It was in your face stuff all the time, and its unfortunate the way he left, but with limited financial backing it was bound to happen that he would leave us.

[CrazyIvan]

For football enjoyment, Souness without a doubt. 4-3 loss away to Liverpool was one of the most enjoyable games I have ever been to even though we lost.

Hughes was the best at getting the best out of his players without a doubt. It helped that everybody wanted him here.

Ince = disaster.

Allardyce? Hasn't been given time yet. This group of players is Jekyl and Hyde at the moment and I don't know that anyone could change that in a hurry. He kept us up which was a remarkable achievement and if we finish above where we are I will be relatively happy. Time is not on his side with some fans though.

[LeChuck]

1. Hughes

2. Souness Mk1

3. Allardyce

4. Souness Mk2

5. Ince

That's how I view it anyway. It's hard to judge Souness...the one that got us promoted and won the League Cup with an exciting, young team was great...the one that went crazy, playing Matteo on the left wing and taking us to relegation was awful.

[Majiball]

Souness, hands down.

Promotion

League Cup win

Almost made the top 4

Regardless of where we were when he left he achieved more than any of the others.