[Archived] Souness Vs Hughes Vs Ince Vs Allardyce

[Stuart]

1. Hughes

2. Souness Mk1

3. Allardyce

4. Souness Mk2

5. Ince

That's how I view it anyway. It's hard to judge Souness...the one that got us promoted and won the League Cup with an exciting, young team was great...the one that went crazy, playing Matteo on the left wing and taking us to relegation was awful.

I would go...

1. Good Souness

2. Hughes

3. Allardyce

4. Bad Souness

Just a shame Souness comes in two flavours or he'd be ahead by a country mile.

-. Ince

[RibbleValleyRover]

1. Souness- Left us in a bad position and lost the plot in the end but he got us promoted and win us a trophy. I would also say we played better football under Souness at times than the 3 managers after him.

2. Hughes- Saved us from relegation, brought in superb bargain signings and left us in a decent state. His unacceptable behaviour when Newcastle were interested in him damaged his reputation with some fans.

3. Allardyce- Saved us from what looked like certain relegation. Still an on going job to see what he can do.

4. Ince- Complete disaster that set the club back years.

[vyeo]

In chronological order:

Souness

Dispelled questions over whether he was the right man for us when he came in. But he got us promoted comfortably and with quite a bit of style at that. He even managed to win us our last trophy, the league cup. He had a good eye for a player as evidenced by Tugay and Freidal, as well as the Hakans - Sukur and Unsal, who were both very good but just couldn't settle. He also brought in Gresko version 1 and got the best out of Stead. Souness fought with Dunn, but did get 5.3m for him, which was an amazing price, and developed Jansen and Duff into top class players. Things went sour in the end and Souness seemed to totally lost the plot. Anyone remember his selection against WBA? Dominic Matteo on the left wing, Javier de Pedro in the middle?

But on balance, Souness was good for the club and we had more good times than bad times with him. Will always think of him fondly, and will not be averse to him coming in on short-term basis to steady the ship if need be. Souness however, did have more financial backing than the others, like the 7.5m for Coley and 6m for Grabbi. 2nd position on my list.

Hughes

Best of the lot. He is clearly self-confident and it rubbed off on the team. Got us to survive playing a tough brand of football, but the style evolved and we were playing effective and to me, pretty, football. So it was never Arsenal pretty, but we mixed it well and had some great games. Someone mentioned the 3-4 defeat at liverpool, but my lasting memory was the 2-3 defeat at White Hart Lane. Even the papers were praising us. The players were also clearly behind him and played with passion and heart. Under Hughes, we always went into matches thinking we could get something out of it, including away to the top four. Realistically, Hughes was always going to leave at some point. The aggravating factor was our refusal/inability to provide him with more funds, which in my opinion, he deserved. But even if we had supported him, he would have left at some point when a bigger club came calling. Top man, and I would say one of the best since I started supporting Rovers in 92-93.

Ince

Disaster from start to finish. By start, I refer to his first interview where he said he had not "yet" taken the club down. Well, he came mightily close and was fired three games too late. Worse than kidd, who at least got us Jansen.

Allardyce

What can I say, what can I say. Fat Sam is like a drug, but certainly not the type you get an addictive high from. The dose of Big Fat Sam was the chemotherapy treatment we needed to cure the cancer of Ince, and I think it was the correct treatment. But as is inevitable, we are now suffering from the side effects - rubbish foot/hoofball with a collection of journeymen who don't seem to want to play for us. The properties of a chemotherapy drug is also that it is strong, sometimes too strong and stubborn that it disregards others and cannot recognise its own failings. (ie: Fat Sam persisting with an ineffective formation even when he does not have the players for it, selling Warnock for Salgado?! I'm sorry but the latter reeks of Sam trying to live up to his perceived legacy of reviving old Real Madrid players.)

Although I recognise that he did his job last season, I fear that Allardyce is killing the club. I have never been so unenthused by a Rovers team. There is no passion, hardly any football and zero entertainment. I still tune in every week, but it is just depressing to watch. If all this came with some positive results, it would help somewhat, but there are not even any good results to speak of. It gets more and more depressing. Even when we pick up the odd win, we never look like we could build on it and go on a run. And under Allardyce, we might as well not even turn up for matches against the top 4. Just give them the walkover and take a 3-0 scoreline because this is likely to be a smaller margin than if we did play the game, and we save on the players' appearance fees as well. I hope John Williams realises that the drug which saved us could become the drug that kills us if we continue to administer if when it is no longer necessary.

[Amo]

Souness was my personal favourite. We were languishing in the old Div 1 when he came in, but his discipline and ability to get the best out of our players was crucial in our return to the big time. People can say he had an easy ride, inheriting Dunn, Duff, Jansen, but it was Souness' ability to form the team around them that separated him from the previous managers. By the end of it, Souness had clearly stayed on too long, but that shouldn't overshadow what a fantastic job he did here and the standard of players he brought to Ewood Park: Tugay, Friedel, Pedersen, Thompson, Sukur, Cole, Unsal, Berkovic etc.

Hughes was a more provident and pragmatic appointment. First and foremost, he made us difficult to beat and got the best out of our less glamorous personnel. We were the proverbial 'bully boys' and proud of it, despite the constant media mudslinging. He unearthed and reinvented some great talent here, such as Warnock, Samba, Bentley, Bellamy, Santa Cruz; and with players like Tugay and Pedersen, we had the quality complement our tenacity. Hughes had clearly grown disillusioned during his last season here, but we still managed a respectable 7th in spite of that. So while his campaign here was less memorable, as such, than the previous manager's his work here was nothing short of miraculous.

Ince... Really? Do I even need to comment? I was willing to give Ince the benefit of the doubt when he first came in. He was our manager and deserved a shot. Despite a decent start, the cracks (or fissures) readily appeared. His transfer foray was short-sighted, spending money on Vince Grella (perennially injured) and finding jobs for Keith Andrews and Robbie Fowler. His naivety was also apparent whenever he stepped in front of the camera, with shaky, uncoordinated interviews. It's no surprise he lost the dressing room. The 3-0 defeat to Wigan was the final nail in the coffin, and rightly so.

I was only too pleased to see Allardyce appointed. He was exactly the man we needed to rally our troops and entrench our Premier League status. Our 'play' was gruesome at times, even resorting to the lumbering Samba up front and addition of hate figure Diouf to the ranks, but it was a necessary evil to avoid relegation. Sam stuck to his end of the bargain and now we could look forward to building for the next season. So far this season, our home form has been pretty solid (although we should have converted some of those draws into victories), but our away form has been diabolical. I don't think Sam has an easy job in his hands, by any means, but sometimes he makes that job a lot harder for himself and us fans. His tactics have often been counter-productive and truly frightening to watch. If he could become more flexible with his tactics, I'd dare say we'd garner more points on the road and have a decent season. As it stands, we're our own worst enemy. As for his transfers, he's done fairly well with the finances available. Nzonzi is a precocious talent, Givet was a given, and Kalinic looks he has something about him. The only black marks would be Salgado (an expensive sub) and Di Santo - who hasn't lived up to the hype - whether you believe Sam has mismanaged him or not.

[Bazrakats]

Souness has to be hands down on top. A trophy , a promotion and two of the best servents this club has seen in recent times in Brad and Tugay.

you cant compare Allardyce with Hughes and Souness since hes only had 1 year in charge. Give him till the end of next season till you can judge how Allardyce is doing. It takes most managers at least a year to start having their imprint on the squad.

[XLM]

And you are ?

Why does that matter?

To say "BFS" is "tragic" when he saved Rovers from relegation last season, steered Rovers into a cup semi-final and has the club currently sitting well placed in 12th position is idiotic.

We had a team that should have been able to stay up. It's not as though he took a team of poor players and kept them in the league single handedly. We finished 7th the season before with a very similar bunch.

Stoke away last season was one of the worst performances in recent memory. We tried to beat Stoke at their own game in their own back yard. That is stupid however you look at it. That was the first game that I could honestly see us being relegated including the Ince days.

We aren't "well placed" at all. We're 12th. We are in a precarious position, especially considering that our last 4 games were ones that you would ear mark as games to win, or at the very least get points out of, at the beginning of the season.

But oh no, we can't even consider getting any points away from home, it just isn't possible. So we play a 19 game season and we can't count the big 4 because we roll over and die of course, so that's a 15 game season.

By no means am I saying that I think we'll get relegated but it just is really unpleasant to have a manager that aims no higher than 17th place. This season has been his season to prove his worth, he did the job required of him last year (inconclusively or not) by keeping Ince's team up, this year it's his team and we're no better.

Souness won us a trophy, got us promotion and regardless of what you say, left us in a better position than when he took over. I'm not taking anything away from what Hughes achieved, but as the legacy of Souness is now gone and Hughes' is fading you must surely judge their success by the facts and figures. Promotion, 2 forays into Europe and a trophy is better than 2 European campaigns.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

For me the Souness years fill me with fond warm memories.Dragged us up from the depths of Div 1 and moulded young,raw players like Dunn,Duff and Jansen into real talent and forged a side that was entertaining to watch...the crowds swelled to well over 25,000 for some games.

Two emotionally charged victory's over the Dingles in our first meetings for over 17 years,the promotion at Deepdale was an emotional one and some...Souey literally danced with the Rovers fans in the paddock that night!.Cardiff? what more is there to say.Celtic away in Uefa cup,little old town club Rovers put up a battling performance that night against one of the biggest clubs in Europe infront of the nation.Very sad how it ended but we all knew and Souness knew his candle had burnt out.

Fond memories indeed...what I would give to experience those feelings of pride again in both town and club.

Hughes,comes second.

I*c*,

Allardyce, I wish you to be as successful as Sounees.

[American]

And if we beat Hull we're 6 points above them.

Dunn's career has been wrecked by injury, Duff chose the filty lucre at Chelsea and Jansen fell off a motor bike in Rome, none of whose alleged decline in form can be attributible to the departure of Souness.

Souness paid around £2m for each of Pedersen, Tugay and Emerton, all good signings but not inconsiderable sums at the time.

Dunn's injuries can be traced to his poor fitness, which is exactly what Souness said would prevent him from being a great. Duff has had chances to regain his form since leaving Chelsea, but still, his best football was under Souness and Ranieri (he was brilliant his first season at Chelsea).

Oh, and if we lose to Hull (not out of the question considering how the Altidore/JVH partnership is starting to gel), we'll be even with them.

All in all, I'd say Kammy summed it up best.

[DE.]

I won't go in depth, as my feelings have already been articulated by vyeo.

It's difficult picking between Souey and Hughes for number one position, as I look back on both tenures fondly (for the most part). I'd have Hughes just ahead of Souness, mainly because when Souey left I was glad, but when Hughes left I was pretty disappointed. It's close, though.

[maccamac71]

Has to be Souey,he has been the only one really to use our youth/reserve players to good effect.

He also got us some tidy profits from the sale of these players,duff for over 10mill(never did see any of that money?)and dunn(even though it was under a cloud that he went to brum).

Plus he actually won us a trophy (something the present sqaud should have playing all the time when they have lunch during training.Might show them that you don`t have to be good to win things just have some heart and fight about you!!!).

[grizfoot]

Think this is an obvious one, Ince would make a joke about himself getting beat up by any of them, then up steps Big Sam who would launch long balls at Ince forcing him to run off crying. Hughes and Souness would pin Big Sam to the floor, Big Sam complains that the referee did not spot this illegal move and runs home to watch the incident on TV and then to analysis it further on Prozone. Hughes and Souness would square up in what looks to be an epic battle between two strong characters, Souness slips and is defeated he puts this down to "lady luck". Before Hughes can be awarded his winners medal he disappears and joins a supposed prestigious elite offering a great sum of money for his service.

[FourLaneBlue]

Overall it has to be Hughes. Although under Souness we had greater moments Hughes was far more consistent and was an excellent manager for us all the way through.

In terms of resources available to the managers it has been a downward trend ever since the times of Souness. Hughes had less to work with, then Ince even less and Sam has what must be one of the lowest budgets in the Prem now. At Bolton his side did become progressively more entertaining but that did take time, many transfers that didn't work out and the gradual accumulation of better players.

Hopefully that is eventually where we are headed but it ain't going to be soon...

[sam_rovers]

Without a doubt Hughes is/was the best of the lot. Reignited my passion for football to be honest. We were characterised by being tough and being "bully boys", yet we had enough skill to compete with just about anyone. All his transfers were spot on really. Nelsen, Samba, Bentley, Bellamy, McCarthy, Santa Cruz, Savage were all phenomenal players. I would take him back as manager of Rovers in an instant

[mellison24]

Without a doubt Hughes is/was the best of the lot. Reignited my passion for football to be honest. We were characterised by being tough and being "bully boys", yet we had enough skill to compete with just about anyone. All his transfers were spot on really. Nelsen, Samba, Bentley, Bellamy, McCarthy, Santa Cruz, Savage were all phenomenal players. I would take him back as manager of Rovers in an instant

Also, under Hughes, whenever we were linked with a big name player, I always felt we had a good chance of actually signing him. Under the others, I ain't so sure. Only Tugay was really a 'big' name for me.

[Amo]

Also, under Hughes, whenever we were linked with a big name player, I always felt we had a good chance of actually signing him. Under the others, I ain't so sure. Only Tugay was really a 'big' name for me.

Andy Cole? Hakan Sukur?

[mellison24]

Andy Cole? Hakan Sukur?

Cole slipped my mind. Sukur I hadn't heard of. I was only 11/12.

[dr_awol]

In 20 years from now will anybody remember Hughes? i know i will remember Souness

1. Souness

2. Hughes

3. BigSam

.

. any one else employed at ewood

.

.

666 .Ince

[Jan]

1- Hughes

2- Allardyce

7,000,000- The Dingles who put their jerseys on Uncle Jack's statue

dead= Souness

dead=Ince

(well, a girl can wish)

All of the one million miles behind the god that is Kenny Dalglish.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Souness is an interesting one - he had our best crop of youngsters coming through (Dunn, Jansen, Duff and to a lesser extent Taylor) he had more money than Hughes, Ince, Sam and probably our next three managers combined - but he did (for a while) get the best out of them. Amazing how the wheels came off towards the end of his reign.

Ince - personally I think he was worth the gamble - similar to Wigan's with Martinez. Its is a shame for Rovers that JW didn't override him and appoint his back room staff for him. IMO his 1st Division backroom staff are what let him down most of all. Though that is being part of a manager - knowing who to employ.

Hughes - did a wonderful job on a limited budget - some of our best purchases since the days of Kenny (unlike the press portray, a number of Kenny's best signings were for relatively little money - and sold on for huge profit). I think there is a bit of a myth around the football though. It was more functional than attractive - and in his first season or so - almost rustic.

Sam - don't like his tactics - too one dimensional. But I don't think the majority of Rovers fans are anti-Sam just because of the football - it is all about pre-conceived ideas and a dislike of the ex-manager of one of our closest rivals. I don't think he endears himself with some of the rubbish he comes out with - but all the managers mentioned have done that at some time or other. His signings are at the moment hit and miss - but given time some of them could rival some of those purchased by Hughes. As mentioned previously - we are at a crossroads - win the next couple of matches - we will be almost safe, and looking at a mid-table finish. Which - whether people would admit or not - would be an improvement on last season. Sam warned it would be a slow process - and given our transfer budget a slow steady improvement is the best we can hope for. There is one thing - being a Rovers fan at the moment sure ain't boring - even if the football at times is.

[47er]

Souness is an interesting one - he had our best crop of youngsters coming through (Dunn, Jansen, Duff and to a lesser extent Taylor) he had more money than Hughes, Ince, Sam and probably our next three managers combined - but he did (for a while) get the best out of them. Amazing how the wheels came off towards the end of his reign.

Ince - personally I think he was worth the gamble - similar to Wigan's with Martinez. Its is a shame for Rovers that JW didn't override him and appoint his back room staff for him. IMO his 1st Division backroom staff are what let him down most of all. Though that is being part of a manager - knowing who to employ.

Hughes - did a wonderful job on a limited budget - some of our best purchases since the days of Kenny (unlike the press portray, a number of Kenny's best signings were for relatively little money - and sold on for huge profit). I think there is a bit of a myth around the football though. It was more functional than attractive - and in his first season or so - almost rustic.

Sam - don't like his tactics - too one dimensional. But I don't think the majority of Rovers fans are anti-Sam just because of the football - it is all about pre-conceived ideas and a dislike of the ex-manager of one of our closest rivals. I don't think he endears himself with some of the rubbish he comes out with - but all the managers mentioned have done that at some time or other. His signings are at the moment hit and miss - but given time some of them could rival some of those purchased by Hughes. As mentioned previously - we are at a crossroads - win the next couple of matches - we will be almost safe, and looking at a mid-table finish. Which - whether people would admit or not - would be an improvement on last season. Sam warned it would be a slow process - and given our transfer budget a slow steady improvement is the best we can hope for. There is one thing - being a Rovers fan at the moment sure ain't boring - even if the football at times is.

Agree with all of the above. These are anxious times for us because we simply don't know which way we are going from here. I can't think of a manager better suited to our circumstances than Allardyce and I am prepared to give him time to build a side. But even I am disappointed with the rate of progress and the fact that he is not getting the best out of them. We are capable of better football than we are producing but its taking too long for him to settle on a preferred line-up. Injuries haven't helped but even so the line-up seems designed not to score goals and that, more than anything is p***ing the fans off and costing us precious points.The knowledge that we are paying Salgado 40000 a week to adorn the bench isn't helping either especially as there are obvious weaknesses elsewhere. I think we will stay up but it hasn't been much fun.

[Miker]

We had a team that should have been able to stay up. It's not as though he took a team of poor players and kept them in the league single handedly. We finished 7th the season before with a very similar bunch.

Stoke away last season was one of the worst performances in recent memory. We tried to beat Stoke at their own game in their own back yard. That is stupid however you look at it. That was the first game that I could honestly see us being relegated including the Ince days.

I haven't been commenting on here for a while, but sorry, this is just a complete joke. How can you possibly say something like that given we were resorting to playing Samba up front due to all our strikers being injured for the majority of the season, not to mention our key midfielders (Dunn, Grella and Emerton) out with injuries as well. Besides having a decent back four, our team was absolute crap. We played Andrews in midfield for most of the season for God's sake and had to partner him with the awful Mokoena and an ageing Tugay.

Our team now is better, but players keep falling in and out of form. Our current position is reflective of that. Our performances have been far from perfect and the team is far from perfect as well, but that's why those of us who have been realistic since Sam's appointment (including Sam himself) have said there needs to be time given to Sam to build the squad up. No, I have not been happy with a lot of performances and no, I don't think we're playing at our best, but I am seeing progress with very limited resources, however slow it might be.

[Eddie]

Has to be Souness, without a doubt. Sure he benefitted from a group of young players coming through, but he made the most of it. By and large he had an amazing record in the transfer market and we continue to use players who he bought on the cheap. He's the only won who won a cup and he took over in the worst position of the three. We played some fantastic football at times and it was a really enjoyable time to be a Rovers fan. Hughes comes a close second and Allardyce is a very distant third.

[Iceman]

you have to remember, that Andrews and Grella were not Sam signings. Questions marks are out on Salgado, and will be on Basturk as well. The fact of the matter is, despite the dire football on display, and very poor tactics Sam has managed to bring in quite a few youngsters into the 1st team. Neither Hughes nor Muppet dared to venture that route, with only Souey really giving the youngsters a chance.

Imo Souness was and Allardyce is, trying to bring a fresh approach to the club, and in so doing ensure that we don’t have to spend loads of unecessary money on over rated players. I think its important, that Sam keeps us up, because next season is crunch time. He will no doubt be assessing the likes of Grella, Reid, Andrews, Diouf and MGP, and also whether to send Di Santo back to Chelsea. However, I would have liked to have seen those players cleared out this season, but obviously no other club wants those fantastic players

[mellison24]

you have to remember, that Andrews and Grella were not Sam signings. Questions marks are out on Salgado, and will be on Basturk as well. The fact of the matter is, despite the dire football on display, and very poor tactics Sam has managed to bring in quite a few youngsters into the 1st team. Neither Hughes nor Muppet dared to venture that route, with only Souey really giving the youngsters a chance.

Imo Souness was and Allardyce is, trying to bring a fresh approach to the club, and in so doing ensure that we don’t have to spend loads of unecessary money on over rated players. I think its important, that Sam keeps us up, because next season is crunch time. He will no doubt be assessing the likes of Grella, Reid, Andrews, Diouf and MGP, and also whether to send Di Santo back to Chelsea. However, I would have liked to have seen those players cleared out this season, but obviously no other club wants those fantastic players

Samba? Bentley? Bellamy? All were young cast-offs/reserves at their clubs before we signed them. He also tried with Olsson, but in the wrong position.

[den]

Samba? Bentley? Bellamy? All were young cast-offs/reserves at their clubs before we signed them. He also tried with Olsson, but in the wrong position.

Bellamy? How did he get in there?