[Archived] Champions League

[ewoodpo]

Now I am not loosing my marbles however , I noticed this article in the Guardian this morning. If the FA decide to bring this in my question is would it boost our chances of making it to the promised land . http://m.guardian.co.uk/?id=102202&story=http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/14/premier-league-play-off-champions-league

[The1mattjansen]

Great idea for my two penneth. Although it does seem a bit Americanised, the Champions League has long since been a league for more than just the champions, so why no extend the reach a little and spice things up.

Great idea for my two penneth. Although it does seem a bit Americanised, the Champions League has long since been a league for more than just the champions, so why no extend the reach a little and spice things up.

[yoda]

Now I am not loosing my marbles however , I noticed this article in the Guardian this morning. If the FA decide to bring this in my question is would it boost our chances of making it to the promised land . http://m.guardian.co.uk/?id=102202&story=http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/14/premier-league-play-off-champions-league

excellent idea, just goes to show that you never know for sure what the future holds,

Bring it on I say

[Brfcrule1]

great idea gives everyone up to 7th a good chance of qualifying for Europe's elite competition the extra money from the Tv income will come in handy for the lesser clubs funny how the big 4 object as their income from the champs lge will be in real jeopardy would also be more like a cup tie atmosphere for the extra play-off games I say good idea bring it on.

[ewoodpo]

How about throwing the two cup winners into the mix as well. It would stop the so called big boys playing weaker teams in those competitions .

[Bobby G]

I like this. We would be able to challenge for 7th place or should be able to at least. However, that would only mean it will come down to a play off against the 4th team possibly in which the gulf in class would tell, but it would keep the league much more interesting!

[den]

At first glances people would think it's a good idea. However, the basic reasons for bringing this idea to fruition are flawed. This isn't the way to even out the imbalance between the top 4 and the rest. There are better ways to do that. All this will do is give a little hope to Man City and Spurs - the other big spenders who don't really need the CL money in the first place.

Plus, a one off CL campaign wont alter the finances of any club too much.

[thenodrog]

Bloody rubbish. I thought most clubs already whinge about playing too many games? This is a 'get out of jail and go to GO' card.

From that article

"The Dutch league tried a play-off system for the second Champions League qualification place but abandoned it after the 2007-08 season, when FC Twente Enschede beat Ajax 2-1. The issues in Holland were the risk of crowd trouble at such high-stakes matches and a perception that the play-offs were one-sided."

Am I alone in thinking that

a. It would still be in place if Ajax had won?

b. This sudden piece of blue sky thinking might well have it's origins in Liverpool?

[ewoodpo]

If this was to be brought in it would at least take 3 years to implement it due to the current Tv deal.

[Hughesy]

Would be a good idea, and im very suprised Liverpool are opposing it when they are unlikely to make the top 4 in future years if it carries on at City.

Hopefully they could make it 4th to 7th as play-offs, with 4th playing 6th & 5th v 7th so its abit more even. It would also surely boost TV money for the league with the extra 5 games (Semi 2 leg) and Final.....as for when (same time as the play-offs)

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Bad idea.

It would devalue the Champions league completely plus it would make a mockery of the league system if say Arsenal finish 4th with 75 points and Fulham in 7th with 60 and then Fulham make it into the Champs League, thats the difference of Arsenal winning 5 more games over a season.

Considering the revenue that would be brought in, its not fair to simply decide who enters by a knock out competition. I hope that this doesnt pass.

Essentially, the team that has finished 4th has earnt the right to play Champions League football ahead of any team which can win a mini knock out competition.

In theory, yes it would make things more competitive, but then why dont we just go one stage further and say that the top 6 have a knock out tournament to decide who wins the title.

[Hughesy]

Why dont they mix the bottom 3 up too then magical? bottom 6 play in play-offs, the 3 losers go down.......

[LeChuck]

It would devalue the Champions league completely plus it would make a mockery of the league system if say Arsenal finish 4th with 75 points and Fulham in 7th with 60 and then Fulham make it into the Champs League, thats the difference of Arsenal winning 5 more games over a season.

Considering the revenue that would be brought in, its not fair to simply decide who enters by a knock out competition. I hope that this doesnt pass.

I don't think that is true. The Premier league isn't devalued by the Championship deciding promotion using a play off system.

Also, the revenue leap (in percentage terms) is greater going from the Championship to the Premier League than it is going from the Premier League to the Champions League.

I guess if you don't agree with the play-off system at all then fair enough, but play-off systems are quite widely used in football and they certainly don't devalue any competition where they are used.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Why dont we let every team play each other twice over the year and then the three worst teams go down, the top 4 play in the Champions League and depending on the cup competitions, the next two get the Europa League........ wait..

The ONLY way it could happen would be if the 4th placed team automatically got placed into the final and then the 7th team would play off against the 6th team who would then face the 5th team before making it into the final against the 4th placed team. There has to be an advantage in finishing 4th ahead of finishing 7th.

[LeChuck]

The ONLY way it could happen would be if the 4th placed team automatically got placed into the final and then the 7th team would play off against the 6th team who would then face the 5th team before making it into the final against the 4th placed team. There has to be an advantage in finishing 4th ahead of finishing 7th.

Why is that the ONLY way? Again I point to the Championship, 3rd place gets no advantage apart from being drawn against 6th place. People don't complain about that being unfair.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Why is that the ONLY way? Again I point to the Championship, 3rd place gets no advantage apart from being drawn against 6th place. People don't complain about that being unfair.

I just feel that the Champions League should be reserved for the very best teams in Europe and shouldnt come down to just a lottery between midtable premiership clubs. I understand your point but the Premier League includes the best clubs in England plus a fair few who are only just above Championship standard. The Champs League is for the very very best, and i dont think the likes of Fulham/Birmingham/Ourselves should be allowed to compete IF we do not earn the right through getting 4th spot.

The championship play off's are slightly different as most of the clubs who finish between 3rd and 6th are of a similar strength, whereas in this division the gap between 4th and 7th is much bigger.

I dont think the winners of the FA Cup should be in the Champions League for the same reason. If this knock out tournament was introduced for the Europa League then i would have little objection although obviously its not quite the same.

[LeChuck]

I see what you mean now...but I think it's far more important to try and see that some balance is restored to the Premier League than it is ensuring that only the very best teams make it into the Champions League.

I think you're possibly overstating the gap between fourth and the rest as well. Liverpool hardly graced the competition this year.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

I see what you mean now...but I think it's far more important to try and see that some balance is restored to the Premier League than it is ensuring that only the very best teams make it into the Champions League.

I think you're possibly overstating the gap between fourth and the rest as well. Liverpool hardly graced the competition this year.

Obviously if this is implemented then it would make things far more interesting. Im certainly not against it completely its just that only the very best teams should qualify for the Champions League in my opinion.

The Premier League doesnt claim to be the division where only the greatest clubs in England compete, which is why it is perfectly fine for the likes of Hull/Wigan/Ourselves etc to replace the likes of Leeds/Newcastle. The Champions League is different, it only allows the best from each country and for us to allow a midtable team into such an elite competition against European sides who qualified through winning their league isnt fair to me.

I dont like the principle of it but if it goes ahead it would definitely give the league a more competitive edge.

[Iceman]

I just feel that the Champions League should be reserved for the very best teams in Europe and shouldnt come down to just a lottery between midtable premiership clubs. I understand your point but the Premier League includes the best clubs in England plus a fair few who are only just above Championship standard. The Champs League is for the very very best, and i dont think the likes of Fulham/Birmingham/Ourselves should be allowed to compete IF we do not earn the right through getting 4th spot.

The championship play off's are slightly different as most of the clubs who finish between 3rd and 6th are of a similar strength, whereas in this division the gap between 4th and 7th is much bigger.

I dont think the winners of the FA Cup should be in the Champions League for the same reason. If this knock out tournament was introduced for the Europa League then i would have little objection although obviously its not quite the same.

Completely agree with what you are saying. However, dont you think that the league is getting closer? You just have to look at Liverpool struggling, and Villa, City and Spurs closing in. If Liverpool ended 4th, and City 5th, Villa 6th and Spurs 7th then could you argue that Liverpool are any better than those 3 teams?

[Steve Moss]

I think its a wonderful idea. All they're proposing is that the spot usually reserved for 4th place spot be determined in a tournament fashion between 4th-7th places on the league table.

It would have an immediate impact on the race for the top 4 between the 'big' clubs, as 4th will no longer qualify with any certainty. It will create even more of a dog fight between ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal and (currently) Liverpool to get to that 3rd place.

It will have the same effect with the mid-table clubs, as teams plot/fight to get to 7th for a chance to get to the Champions League. The race for the top 7 would become a heck of lot more exciting for clubs nos. 5-7.

It would have the effect of, maybe, making the league more competitive as the Champions League money trickles in to more than just the top 4 clubs.

It would benefit a lot of supporters, as their club will play more games, both in the tournament and, maybe, in the Champions League.

And I really don't consider it overly "American" as all it does (more or less) is copy the Championship format for promotion to the Premier League, for 'promotion' from the Premier League to the Champions League. If you really wanted to Americanize it, the top 10 teams would play a tournament for the 4 spots to the Champions, with the best teams only being benefitted by home games against weaker teams (i.e. 1st plays 10th at home, etc.) in the first round.

[ewoodpo]

I do think that this is a good idea up to a point. It does have its positives as well as its negatives. It would make the league more competitive and it would give some of the smaller clubs a chance of competing in the best knock out competition in the world.

However, from a negative prospective when would these games be fitted into the calendar at the end of season as it would cause problems if it was a World Cup or European Championship year.

Also, with the lure of a possible Champions League place up for grabs, some of the smaller clubs would try to spend money that they wouldn't have just to try and get that 7th place.

[Steve Moss]

Also, with the lure of a possible Champions League place up for grabs, some of the smaller clubs would try to spend money that they wouldn't have just to try and get that 7th place.

Rovers wouldn't. We're too prudent for that. Which is another reason to support it, some of our less prudent rivals will weaken themselves over the long term which results in a relative increase in the strength of the Rovers.

[ewoodpo]

Rovers wouldn't. We're too prudent for that. Which is another reason to support it, some of our less prudent rivals will weaken themselves over the long term which results in a relative increase in the strength of the Rovers.

Don't get me wrong I am well up for this, as this would represent the best chance for us to see some of the best players in the world at Ewood.

[philipl]

There is a bit of a problem here.

4th CL slot gets you into the qualifying rounds which start before the season starts and the play-offs would have to be AFTER the season ends. So the lucky winner gets a doubly squeezed summer break.

Are they also going to toss League Europa Cup place(s)into the play-offs requiring a third place play-off game if two Europa places are up for grabs?

We only get 4 CL places because we have been dominating Europe of late. If all the English clubs get knocked out over the next three weeks and the German and Italian clubs do well then it could soon mean the PL's 4th place play-off is for, err avoiding the Europa Cup preliminaries...

England has got its 4 CL positions through all 4 clubs doing well in the Group phases. Liverpool have screwed up as the first English club not to qualify from the Groups for 5 seasons. Setting up the chance for the 7th placed club to get into the CL greatly increases the chances of early elimination for that English club and losing England the 4th CL place.

So great idea in theory, but does rather carry the seeds of its own destruction....

And of course, the PL haven't told us where these games will be played. Are they the 39th game in a different guise? And the refs won't be biased will they???

I wouldn't like to be the club that struggles into 4th then completely implodes in the play-offs.

At least 3 years before any change is made

[thenodrog]

Why dont we let every team play each other twice over the year and then the three worst teams go down, the top 4 play in the Champions League and depending on the cup competitions, the next two get the Europa League........ wait..

No I'll tell you what lets do the first part but make it just so the Champions can play in the Champions league and the next 3 in some Inter City Cup. Thats Fair isn't it?