[Archived] Champions League

[FourLaneBlue]

Good idea...as it wouldn't come in for some years there would be plenty of time to work out the whys and wherefores.

Disagree completely with mortensmag...the Champions League is not meant to be for the best teams in Europe. If so 4th place would never get in the damn thing in the first place.

More important is keeping an interest in the Prem league which has badly waned over these last 4 seasons of Big 4 dominance. We need some way of keeping interest in the league going. Last season Fulham finished 7th. The season before Rovers. The year before that Bolton. All those clubs would have had a chance to be in the big time. It would really shake a desperately predictable league. The only reason why it is not so predictable this year is that City and Spurs have spent so many millions it is ridiculous. Villa not far behind. Birmigham are only one place off where those play-off places would be...

It would invigorate the whole league and give so many clubs something they don't really have anymore...hope at playing at the big table. It might not come off but right now there is no hope. Other than staying up and going up a few places there is nothing to look forward to. Top flight football used to be better for the simple reason that there was some unpredictability in there. There is next to none now.

This should be based in what is best for the Premiership as that is who are voting...and not what is best for the Top 4 in the Champs League. Bring it on.

We only get 4 CL places because we have been dominating Europe of late. If all the English clubs get knocked out over the next three weeks and the German and Italian clubs do well then it could soon mean the PL's 4th place play-off is for, err avoiding the Europa Cup preliminaries...

England are ahead of everybody else and way ahead of Italy and even more so Germany. Despite Liverpool so far this season England has the 2nd best record in Europe after Spain. It would take a few years of cock-ups across the board and a huge Italian + German resurgence to change things. Apart from anything else...Germany has only 2 clubs in the knockout stage as opposed to England's 3...and of those do you fancy Stuttgart to beat Barca?

In any case...if it is not to be brought in for 3 years at least then there is time to monitor the situation.

I just feel that it would be a huge boost to every Premiership club, such as Rovers, which would otherwise have no chance at all. Instead we would have a glimmer of hope. It would mean we could specualate on here like idiots for months before being finally let down...

UEFA clubs country rankings (updated 04/12/2009)

[philipl]

BBC comment on the idea

[ewoodpo]

This is the sort of revenue you are talking about for the winners of the Champions League;

- The winner of this season's Champions League could earn up to €100 million euros on top of UEFA prize money and tournament gate receipts.

UEFA awards €3 million to each team that qualifies for the UEFA Champions League, plus €2.4 million for participating in the Group stage. A Group stage win is worth €600,000 and a draw is worth €300,000.

In addition, UEFA pays each quarter finalist €2.5 million, €3 million for each semi-finalist, €4 million for the runners-up and €7 million for the winners.[3]

A large part of the distributed revenue from the UEFA Champions League is linked to the "market pool", the distribution of which is determined by the value of the television market in each country. For the 2008-09 season, both Manchester United and Bayern Munich, who reached the final and quarter-final respectively, earned more than Barcelona, who won the tournament.

[American]

Disagree completely with mortensmag...the Champions League is not meant to be for the best teams in Europe. If so 4th place would never get in the damn thing in the first place.

I think Celtic and Rangers are just as good of an example...

[Steve Moss]

We could use some of that cash, even if we only last a few matches before elimination.

[FourLaneBlue]

BBC comment on the idea

Good article although it is a blog rather than a BBC comment.

It would be beneficial to Rovers that is for sure and clubs like us. Hopefully John Williams will be express his support for this at a future Fans Forum.

[naperrover]

Okay, I know this is too long. Also, I'm an American, but I wanted to throw in my two cents/pence/pfennigs.

For years, the Premier League has had to answer questions about the gulf between the top 4 and the rest of the league. Teams like Rovers could only aspire to that Uefa Cup/Europa League/whatever you want to call it spot.

There has of course always been a second tier of challengers for the “runner-up cup” and this season really does show a “top 3” and a “4 through 7” grouping. Not only the points but goals scored and goal differential argue for the top 3 being a class apart and 4 through 7 a class apart from the 7 mid-table sides, who are again a class apart from the current bottom 6. Only Rovers, with their embarrassing -17 goal differential, look a bit out of place in the current table.

That being said, what would this plan do for the teams in this season’s table? It’s got to be said that the 4th CL spot playoff could be very exciting, with Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, and Villa in the hat. But these are all clubs whose supporters can legitimately expect a run at a 4th place finish anyway. As indicated by others, it is quite possible that Man City may have the greatest chance of becoming a perennial top 4 side going forward, and who might most object to this plan.

The real question is: what is the incentive for mid-table clubs to spend to make a run at 7th spot? Birmingham and Everton would be poised to make such a run currently, as they are 5 and 7 points off current 7th place Villa, but their current goal differential suggest that they are a class below the 4 through 7 group.

How much can Brum and Everton and the rest of the current mid-table crop (Fulham, Rovers, Stoke, Sunderland, Wham) and similar future sides be expected to spend going forward in future seasons, chasing a lottery ticket that gets them into a competition that might allow them to recoup their investment? What if they don’t make it? This just leads to more endangering of clubs’ financial health in pursuit of an elusive payoff. It seems to me that this plan does little for the overall health of the Premier League as an entity and is little more than a distraction from the genuine questions of overall competitiveness that plague the league. It’s interesting that, at the same time that Dave Whelan is asking for restrictions on Premier League clubs’ ability to amass potentially crippling debt, the league is putting forth a proposal that would only encourage imprudent spending.

[thenodrog]

Good article although it is a blog rather than a BBC comment.

It would be beneficial to Rovers that is for sure and clubs like us.

I think you need reminding that our first job is staying in the Prem!

[FourLaneBlue]

I think you need reminding that our first job is staying in the Prem!

Flipping 'eck...Someone is Mr.Miserable tonight, eh?

We can always dream can't we?

Besides you never know...given a few years we might be back up there...we have finished in the top half of the league five times in the last 8 seasons. It was 5 in 7 until we appointed Ince.

It shows that we might have a chance sometime in the future if this came into effect. We won't be finishing in the top 4 though that is for sure...

[FourLaneBlue]

How much can Brum and Everton and the rest of the current mid-table crop (Fulham, Rovers, Stoke, Sunderland, Wham) and similar future sides be expected to spend going forward in future seasons, chasing a lottery ticket that gets them into a competition that might allow them to recoup their investment? What if they don’t make it? This just leads to more endangering of clubs’ financial health in pursuit of an elusive payoff. It seems to me that this plan does little for the overall health of the Premier League as an entity and is little more than a distraction from the genuine questions of overall competitiveness that plague the league. It’s interesting that, at the same time that Dave Whelan is asking for restrictions on Premier League clubs’ ability to amass potentially crippling debt, the league is putting forth a proposal that would only encourage imprudent spending.

If clubs choose to overspend in pursuit of anything then it is all their own fault and should not be given any sympathy. Tough for them I'm afraid and they will pay for it. That will in turn be beneficial to clubs like Rovers who keep their house in order. Win-win situation as far as I can see.

None of this should reflect on the decision to spice up the Premiership a bit.

[naperrover]

If clubs choose to overspend in pursuit of anything then it is all their own fault and should not be given any sympathy. Tough for them I'm afraid and they will pay for it. That will in turn be beneficial to clubs like Rovers who keep their house in order. Win-win situation as far as I can see.

None of this should reflect on the decision to spice up the Premiership a bit.

I definitely do see your point but what does that really do for Rovers? The club doesn't overspend because it really can't and John Williams is a proven past master at maintaining the club's Premier League solvency on a shoestring. So we watch teams outspend the club, hope that they don't buy well and go into administration so that Rovers can move up in future seasons.

Note that I had originally written "we don't overspend" etc. but changed it out of respect for supporters Blackburn and surroundings born and bred. That being said, even as a foreign voyeur, I invest a great deal of energy and time into supporting this club and would love nothing more than to see a scheme such as the one being mooted benefit Rovers. I'm just afraid that it wouldn't.

[FourLaneBlue]

naperover - we have finished in the top half of the Premiership 5 times in the noughties.

So...it is pretty obvious why this might be beneficial. Should trends continue we could at least expect to challenge for those places.

[neekoy]

It would devalue the Champions league completely

As opposed to having the fourth best team in England lifting the CL trophy?

I am all for it, anything to spread some wealth and encourage the type of football which is all or nothing if you are floating 13th to 7th.

As it stands now you can tell my Xmas which 12 clubs are certainties not to challenge for 4th therefore encouraging 4-5-1 tactics to starve of the threat of relegation.

[CaliRoverNYC]

And of course, the PL haven't told us where these games will be played. Are they the 39th game in a different guise? And the refs won't be biased will they???

Exactly what I was thinking, I wouldn't be suprised if the top four clubs try to connect this idea to the the 39th game to garner public support against it.

[PAFELL]

I think you need reminding that our first job is staying in the Prem!

Your right that the first job is staying in the prem. But final position for rovers is alos important moneywise. The higher they finish the more money given. So after reaching the first job it is only right they try to finish as high as possible. For yeas I have considered that it should only be the league winners that go in to the champions league - I still believe that. But that is never going to happen. So to make the prem more interesting than just watching the top 4 take all the glory and the dosh, make 7th place something to play for. It has helped improve the ambitions of other clubs in the lower divisions - Rovers as well of course years ago - getting into the play offs. So I am for this idea being mooted. It is something that Rovers could do with. It is alright playing to stay in the prem, but better to be able to play for another target as well.

[Iceman]

Thought id put it in here, but Milan 1-0 up on Man United. Milan has been all over the Mancs, with United giving the ball away. And as i type, United equalise.

[yoda]

Your right that the first job is staying in the prem. But final position for rovers is alos important moneywise. The higher they finish the more money given. So after reaching the first job it is only right they try to finish as high as possible. For yeas I have considered that it should only be the league winners that go in to the champions league - I still believe that. But that is never going to happen. So to make the prem more interesting than just watching the top 4 take all the glory and the dosh, make 7th place something to play for. It has helped improve the ambitions of other clubs in the lower divisions - Rovers as well of course years ago - getting into the play offs. So I am for this idea being mooted. It is something that Rovers could do with. It is alright playing to stay in the prem, but better to be able to play for another target as well.

The clubs outside the top 4 have it their hands to change things if they want, 14 votes carries a resolution or change to the EPL, trouble is there are a few other clubs who would do anything to be a top 4 club and enjoy the benefits of the current structure, greed I think it is called.

The current top 4 view the rest as cannon fodder, some league!

[cn174]

Comical goal from Porto.

Arsenal had a free kick given against them for a backpass. While the players were switched off Porto took a quick free kick and scored. Brilliant!

[Iceman]

Comical goal from Porto.

Arsenal had a free kick given against them for a backpass. While the players were switched off Porto took a quick free kick and scored. Brilliant!

Dont let Wenger hear you say that Claire

[Blue n White Rover]

Dont let Wenger hear you say that Claire

Henry has done it in the past twice for Arsenal, VS Chelsea and Villa. IIRC Rovers did it VS Newcastle a few seasons back, when Ferguson played through Dickov and he finished it off. Clever play if you ask me. Would be annoyed though if it happened against us.

[Amo]

Wenger's a sore loser. His captain displayed more honesty, describing their performance as 'schoolboy'.

[CaliRoverNYC]

even though I don't like the law regarding a quick indirect free kick in the box, Wegner complaining is like the boy who cried wolf, If he hadn't been complaining about everything for the last 8 years maybe someone would listen.

[ewoodpo]

The premier league have rejected the idea for a play off damn shame . http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8549867.stm

[T4E]

They ought to just have one big European club competition.

Top 6 get in, 5th and 6th in the Qualifying round, 4th in the first round, 3rd in the second round, 2nd in the third round and 1st straight to the group stage (if you have one, there's a lot to be said for a straight two-legged knock-out competition in my opinion).

Europa League is pointless and devalued enough already, sending the loser of a play off in to it would just make that worse.

[bellamy11]

They ought to just have one big European club competition.

Top 6 get in, 5th and 6th in the Qualifying round, 4th in the first round, 3rd in the second round, 2nd in the third round and 1st straight to the group stage (if you have one, there's a lot to be said for a straight two-legged knock-out competition in my opinion).

Europa League is pointless and devalued enough already, sending the loser of a play off in to it would just make that worse.

I'd be all in favour of this. One competition - 64 teams. Straight knockout format over two legs. Eight (for arguement's sake) champions are seeded and drawn at random in designated slots, as are the next eight champions of minor nations and top second placed teams. The other 48 clubs all get the luck of the draw and teams from the same country are not kept apart.

I suppose if we really had to pad it out then it could be done with 128 teams, which would still provide some incentive for English teams to finish top 6 or so. And there'd be some real potential for nightmare Eastern European minnow draws. As we all know though, there just wouldn't be enough televised matches possible for the TV companies to go for this, so sadly will never happen.