[Archived] Champions League

[imy9]

Of course, but my point about the wins with different clubs is that a lot of other managers haven't had that chance. Also, in Porto, Chelsea and Inter he's been handed two very big jobs and clubs who you would expect to win things with.

How many managers have won the CL twice regardless of different clubs?A select group still, how many had the bottle to move on at the highest points of success?

Porto may have been expected to win league but CL?

Chelsea had not won a league for 52 years!

Inter the CL for 40 plus years!

Its what his won and against who which is what imptesses me, I have no doubt he will win the CL at least 5 times with as many clubs.

[doctorryan]

........................ Eddie is out on his own on this one. My opinion is different, I'm not trying to start an argument with him. I've read enough of his posts to know that he'll go on for days if I keep going.

[neekoy]

Of course, but my point about the wins with different clubs is that a lot of other managers haven't had that chance. Also, in Porto, Chelsea and Inter he's been handed two very big jobs and clubs who you would expect to win things with.

Absolute rubbish Eddie. I named arguably the greatest modern Managers going around above who have won the European CUP or CL at least once, they have also been managers at 2 or more clubs that have played in European top competition and have ALL had been at clubs that could have won it when looking at PORTO and INTER as the benchmark of managerial ability.

EDIT: Apologies, not Sir Bobby but he is on the list anyway

[Eddie]

Wow...that seems to have upset you a surprising amount...

Some of them have and some of them haven't. I'd still put Ferguson quite far ahead of him and he hasn't had that chance. I'd put him on a level with Wenger, with Wenger possibly slightly edging it, and he hasn't had that chance. I'd put Hiddink ahead of him and apart from his time at PSV and Valencia he's never really stayed at a club long enough to really build a side. I could go on with a few of them, but the thing that's odd about this is that it's a subjective assessment and people seem to be looking at it as if they can be "right". Picking the best club in Europe, or picking the best manager around is totally subjective. You can do it in something of an objective fashion by simply looking at the Champions League for the best club in Europe or winning percentages and number of titles for the manager and if you choose to do it that way that's fine, but I don't. I've yet to see a convincing argument as for why I should do it that way as there are simply too many exceptions that pop up when you start looking into that sort of analysis and it removes results from their context.

I'm not trying to convince anyone or change an opinion; I simply expressed my own. People continue to ask me questions about it and I've simply answered them.

If you honestly feel like you are right when it comes to this stuff and that anyone who disagrees needs to be put in their place then I suggest you stay away from the internet, dinner parties and casual conversation.

[neekoy]

Wow...that seems to have upset you a surprising amount...

Some of them have and some of them haven't. I'd still put Ferguson quite far ahead of him and he hasn't had that chance. I'd put him on a level with Wenger, with Wenger possibly slightly edging it, and he hasn't had that chance. I'd put Hiddink ahead of him and apart from his time at PSV and Valencia he's never really stayed at a club long enough to really build a side. I could go on with a few of them, but the thing that's odd about this is that it's a subjective assessment and people seem to be looking at it as if they can be "right". Picking the best club in Europe, or picking the best manager around is totally subjective. You can do it in something of an objective fashion by simply looking at the Champions League for the best club in Europe or winning percentages and number of titles for the manager and if you choose to do it that way that's fine, but I don't. I've yet to see a convincing argument as for why I should do it that way as there are simply too many exceptions that pop up when you start looking into that sort of analysis and it removes results from their context.

I'm not trying to convince anyone or change an opinion; I simply expressed my own. People continue to ask me questions about it and I've simply answered them.

If you honestly feel like you are right when it comes to this stuff and that anyone who disagrees needs to be put in their place then I suggest you stay away from the internet, dinner parties and casual conversation.

Not at all, I just thought you may have missed the points I asked you about twice so I highlighted them.

I didn't note you stated an arguement as to why he wasn't, I thought that is generally how debate occured but if you are happy with stating your opinion and just using objective reasoning then that is cool as well. I do apologise as I didn't realise this was to be a one sided affair.

[Eddie]

It's not about it being one-sided, I'm happy to debate the issue, but when you start seeing the words "absolute rubbish" in bold, then it's probably a good sign that the topic isn't being reasonably debated.

[tcj_jones]

The way I see it, Mourinho has been at three top European clubs and done pretty much the best job you could reasonably expect from him at each, including two Champions League titles. Clearly he is one of the very best, if not the best, in the game, but needs time before he can match the achievements of the likes of Sir Alex. All things considered, if I had a choice of any manager out there, he'd probably be my number one.

[DE.]

The only real question-mark over Mourinho is his ability to build a team that can sustain long-term success. Until he stays at a club for a long time, nurtures the youth and creates a team that is successful for an extended period of time I don't think he can be considered on the same level as Ferguson. Say what you will about old whiskey-nose, his nearly 20 years of success with Utd is remarkable.

[dazmaz]

Daz, I've made 2 posts since the game finished. 1 saying Inter are the best team in Euorpe, the other is quoted above. I am merely expressing that Eddie is out on his own on this one. My opinion is different, I'm not trying to start an argument with him. I've read enough of his posts to know that he'll go on for days if I keep going.

If you think my post is depressing, keep away from the board every time we lose a game.

yours was just last last post i read thus i quoted it.

oh and I do stay way from the board after every match not just the ones we lose

[Exiled_Rover]

The only real question-mark over Mourinho is his ability to build a team that can sustain long-term success. Until he stays at a club for a long time, nurtures the youth and creates a team that is successful for an extended period of time I don't think he can be considered on the same level as Ferguson. Say what you will about old whiskey-nose, his nearly 20 years of success with Utd is remarkable.

Well his Chelsea team just won the double...

[Eddie]

His Chealse team? They've changed quite significantly since he was in charge. It's not as if he was there last season.

[BuckyRover]

Deco, Bosingwa and.....?

[Rovermatt]

Anelka?

[Eddie]

Zhirkov, Sturridge, Ivanovic, Turnbull. The turnover isn't huge, but it's as much as you'd expect in only a couple of seasons and a few of them are very important players for the current side and the roles of some of the old players have changed significantly.

[alexanders]

Big Boys don't cry