[Archived] Bolton (Home) Preview

[Steve Moss]

I have no problem with either Coyle or Nicko or their obvious friendship or Nicko's use of the word "ugly" in regards to the Rovers.

Coyle is a talented manager. Bolton will likely survive with him in charge, Burnley not so much. Coyle is young and has a bright future.

Nicko is a good reporter who is a positive source of information for this board. I, for one, am appreciative.

Reporters should have sources and, everyone being human, it would be natural for some reporters and sources to become friends. It would also likely improve access to information. Regardless, those who expect pure objectivity from the press (or anyone else for that matter) are living in a fantasy world. Spock is NOT real.

As to referring to the Rovers style of play as "ugly" so what? A WWII style Jeep is ugly, but also practical and uber-cool. Charles Bronson was ugly but he never had a problem getting the ladies. The ugling duckling grew up to be a beautiful swan (my daughter likes this one so I threw it in though I prefer the Rovers as a Jeep or Bronson analogy). Ugly is not necessarily derogatory, escpecially if it is effective.

Personally though I would describe Sam's style of play as pragmatic. I think he'll sometimes play ugly "hoofball" only to switch to an attacking game. Sam's focus appears to be on keeping the opposition off balance, and that means being more than a one trick pony.

[Darth Paul]

I have no problem with either Coyle or Nicko or their obvious friendship or Nicko's use of the word "ugly" in regards to the Rovers.

Coyle is a talented manager. Bolton will likely survive with him in charge, Burnley not so much. Coyle is young and has a bright future.

Nicko is a good reporter who is a positive source of information for this board. I, for one, am appreciative.

Reporters should have sources and, everyone being human, it would be natural for some reporters and sources to become friends. It would also likely improve access to information. Regardless, those who expect pure objectivity from the press (or anyone else for that matter) are living in a fantasy world. Spock is NOT real.

As to referring to the Rovers style of play as "ugly" so what? A WWII style Jeep is ugly, but also practical and uber-cool. Charles Bronson was ugly but he never had a problem getting the ladies. The ugling duckling grew up to be a beautiful swan (my daughter likes this one so I threw it in though I prefer the Rovers as a Jeep or Bronson analogy). Ugly is not necessarily derogatory, escpecially if it is effective.

Personally though I would describe Sam's style of play as pragmatic. I think he'll sometimes play ugly "hoofball" only to switch to an attacking game. Sam's focus appears to be on keeping the opposition off balance, and that means being more than a one trick pony.

That is absolute rubbish. Football is both a sport and a form of entertainment, and in both contexts the word "Ugly" is about as derogative as it gets.

I like Nicko but I think he was out of line with this one. As I said in my earlier post, sometimes it isn't what you say but how you say it. No Rovers fans are kidding themselves that we played like Brazil, but the point is, we don't get a fair crack of the whip in the press and other teams do not get described in this way, even if they play like us or worse.

"Ugly" puts images in the mind of pundits and neutrals of boring, unattractive football, lacking in entertainment. Nicko can say that isn't how he meant it but comments like this do not help us win friends in the media or pull fans through the gates...

Further to that I would say the first goal was the antithesis of ugly, and many of the chances we didn't convert came from good balls in from out wide...I for one was entertained on Sunday.

[thenodrog]

It's the way unfashionable clubs play.

The less a club is liked by the journo, the uglier the football.

In reality the term means sweet FA and is often associated with sour grapes and bitterness.

Whereas Top 4 'fashionable' clubs play an expansive beautiful game knowing that they have the skills within the team to win most matches ..... until they go 1-0 down then they turn ugliest of the ugly in order to soften their opponents up. We've all seen it time and again.

[thenodrog]

FFS WTF is ugly football?

Can somebody please define it

Any forward line containing 2 or more of the following..... Ian Dowie, Peter Beardsley, Luke Chadwick, Ronaldinho and Mr Potato Head himself Wayne Rooney.

Is that ugly enough for you yoda?

[Boz]

Bolton need to get 'nasty' - I think that was one of the points I was trying to make.

I believe he left Burney in 14th...which is a lurch most people would be glad to have.

As for Bolton I really have no idea what you are talking about.

Hopefully he gets this mob through. I suspect when he has time to play the game the way he wants you will be choking on your words.

I look forward to that.

If playing the game in the way he wants to, amounts to a carefree approach away from home which will relegate any team out of any league, then I doubt it.

If you have no idea about this, then you must be as naive as Coyle and throws doubts as to whether you should be reporting on any football let alone supposedly "ugly" football.

Anyway enough of you getting all precious it can't be good for you.

[nicko]

This makes me laugh...

The match report was written in praise of a manager who knows how to keep clubs in the Premier League by playing survival football.

If you took the trouble to read it you would find it was heavily loaded in tributes to an 'ugly' style that has proved effective.

It also had a pot-shot at a team that needs to get with the idea too...and quickly.

Not too difficult to understand.

Or maybe it is.

[T4E]

And the "nasty edge" bit Alan? Do you really think we showed that on Sunday? Playing the likes of Pedersen, Hoillet and Diouf in midfield? Them three wouldnt know a tackle if they worked in a bait shop. Olsson is the same, Andrews likewise, Givet is hardly dirty and we havent seen that side of Salgado yet. Nelsen had to go off injured!

If we had the nasty edge you speak of, we'd be holding our own against the top 5 or 6 instead of getting pasted every time. Its exactly whats missing at the moment.

[Boz]

You are the supposedly a man of words.

Your use of the word ugly does not convey praise.

Ugly – unattractive, hideous, unsightly, revolting, repulsive.

As others have said elsewhere the use of the word pragmatic would be acceptable.

Pragmatic – practical, realistic, hard-headed, hard-nosed, sensible, matter of fact, no-nonsense, down-to-earth.

Or you can take the easy route and chose headline grapping descriptions of unfashionable Blackburn Rovers.

But don't be surprised when me and fellow Rovers supporters will defend our club.

[Jim Royle]

I wonder what would happen if I told Mrs Royle that she was:

a) ugly, but

effective?

Clues on a postcard to Blackpool Vic please....

[Darth Paul]

I wonder what would happen if I told Mrs Royle that she was:

a) ugly, but

effective?

Clues on a postcard to Blackpool Vic please....

Nicko, fact is the write up is a good one, so many reporters fill their accounts with such drivel, whereas your effort does contain a good balance about both sides, and a nice mix of (mostly accurate) fact and sentiment, such as mentioning Givet's first goal at Ewood etc.

I HAVE read the article but you make a relevant point, many people don't necessarily choose to, or have the time to, and words such as "Ugly" and "Nasty" are ones that quickly jump out and are remembered for all the wrong reasons.

I agree with your standpoint from your last post, about what you were trying to say, but unfortunately media muppets like Lawrenson relish this sort of stuff and it comes back to haunt us. That I think is the point most of us are trying to make.

I have written Rovers articles myself and you are always in a no-win situation, I accept that, and it is also good of you to enter into dialogue about it as many others, including myself, wouldn't necessarily. This isn't a witch hunt, at least not from me, but such articles spark responses, which surely is what the author wants?

Decent write up from a guy who knows Rovers are more than just some team from "oop North" that make up the numbers, but unfortunate choice of words sums it up from me.

[bob fleming]

And the "nasty edge" bit Alan? Do you really think we showed that on Sunday? Playing the likes of Pedersen, Hoillet and Diouf in midfield? Them three wouldnt know a tackle if they worked in a bait shop. Olsson is the same, Andrews likewise, Givet is hardly dirty and we havent seen that side of Salgado yet. Nelsen had to go off injured!

If we had the nasty edge you speak of, we'd be holding our own against the top 5 or 6 instead of getting pasted every time. Its exactly whats missing at the moment.

Totally agree. Great post. Compare this team to those of recent years and they're a bunch of angels.

[waggy]

always had nicko as a wind up merchant,he speaks with fork toungue but this is very true

[T4E]

always had nicko as a wind up merchant

Thats a new personal best for you, Wags.

[Steve Moss]

That is absolute rubbish. Football is both a sport and a form of entertainment, and in both contexts the word "Ugly" is about as derogative as it gets.

It appears that we have a disagreement. I can think of many actors who have been ugly but were great entertainers. I can think of much in the way of art that is ugly but is still appreciated by the viewing public and critics alike. I can think of novels and screen plays that have ugly story lines but still mesmerize their readers. It's a sad world view that something has to be beautiful to be appreciated or entertaining.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Compared to a lot of other football clubs our football style is probably 'ugly' but if it gets points and keeps us up who cares. I think most Rovers fans agree on the whole we don't play an attractive game, at the moment its mainly a hit and hope hoof but every so often we show a bit of quality passing in our game as we saw against Bolton.

At the end of the day there will probably be three sides that play a more stylish and expansive game than us that will go down this season meanwhile we will stay up. I would take ugly football if it gets us results.

[philipl]

Ugly football- yes we've served up a fair bit but what we did against Bolton was not ugly compared with much of this season so I felt aggrieved by nicko's use of the word in relation to Sunday's game.

However, OC has far far bigger problems at Horwich than I had anticipated. No new manager bounce and Caldwell likely to be out for many weeks yet. The Trotters are in deep trouble and Coyle's natural approach to setting up teams is not going to help them over much. It really is toss a coin time whether they are in 18th/19th when the 38th game has been played.

[braddock]

Ugly football- yes we've served up a fair bit but what we did against Bolton was not ugly compared with much of this season so I felt aggrieved by nicko's use of the word in relation to Sunday's game.

However, OC has far far bigger problems at Horwich than I had anticipated. No new manager bounce and Caldwell likely to be out for many weeks yet. The Trotters are in deep trouble and Coyle's natural approach to setting up teams is not going to help them over much. It really is toss a coin time whether they are in 18th/19th when the 38th game has been played.

christ, things are looking bad for them if he's signed caldwell! i cannot think of a worse centre back in the premier league.

[nicko]

And the "nasty edge" bit Alan? Do you really think we showed that on Sunday? Playing the likes of Pedersen, Hoillet and Diouf in midfield? Them three wouldnt know a tackle if they worked in a bait shop. Olsson is the same, Andrews likewise, Givet is hardly dirty and we havent seen that side of Salgado yet. Nelsen had to go off injured!

If we had the nasty edge you speak of, we'd be holding our own against the top 5 or 6 instead of getting pasted every time. Its exactly whats missing at the moment.

I think I said Bolton need a nasty edge...

You are the supposedly a man of words.

Your use of the word ugly does not convey praise.

Ugly – unattractive, hideous, unsightly, revolting, repulsive.

As others have said elsewhere the use of the word pragmatic would be acceptable.

Pragmatic – practical, realistic, hard-headed, hard-nosed, sensible, matter of fact, no-nonsense, down-to-earth.

Or you can take the easy route and chose headline grapping descriptions of unfashionable Blackburn Rovers.

But don't be surprised when me and fellow Rovers supporters will defend our club.

It's ugly football.

It's survival football.

It's effective football.

Full stop.

[broadsword]

You are the supposedly a man of words.

Your use of the word ugly does not convey praise.

Ugly – unattractive, hideous, unsightly, revolting, repulsive.

As others have said elsewhere the use of the word pragmatic would be acceptable.

Pragmatic – practical, realistic, hard-headed, hard-nosed, sensible, matter of fact, no-nonsense, down-to-earth.

Or you can take the easy route and chose headline grapping descriptions of unfashionable Blackburn Rovers.

But don't be surprised when me and fellow Rovers supporters will defend our club.

What's in a word? That which we call a win, would by any other name feel as sweet.

I think it's fairly obvious that "ugly" is not used in the sense of Andy Payton's missus. Winning ugly is using what you have to best effect and winning. It may not be aesthetic, but that is not a primary consideration unfortunately.

I think people are being far too precious about this.

If Alan had described us as "Blackeye Rovers" then we'd be right to feel aggrieved. But that's The Guardian for you.

[waggy]

It's ugly football. LARDARSE IS FAMOUS FOR THIS

It's survival football.DITTO

It's effective football.NOT AWAY FROM HOME

Full stop.

[nicko]

I think that was the point I was trying to make.

Sadly I can't use the word Lardarse in the Mirror...

[waggy]

I think that was the point I was trying to make.

Sadly I can't use the word Lardarse in the Mirror...

START USING IT AND I WILL CHANGE FROM THE STAR

[nicko]

START USING IT AND I WILL CHANGE FROM THE STAR

Now there's an incentive.

[gumboots]

I think I said Bolton need a nasty edge...

It's ugly football.

It's survival football.

It's effective football.

Full stop.

And by implication that we had what they lack. There's a big difference between ugly football and the other terms you have used. I have no objection to playing survival or effective football which sometimes includes ugly stuff because that's life, but to suggest that we are masters of ugly football is to suggest that we can play no other way, and that was certainly not true on Sunday. You may not have meant it to sound a criticism of our team but it very definitely comes out as a negative, and, following a game where we had played less negatively than in many others this season, that seems unnecessary. We know we aren't the most attractive of sides to watch, and we all know there are many reasons for this. We are our own strongest critics when we feel there has been scope for criticism and even when there hasn't. It just strikes many of us as odd that the words were written this week when the term seems far less justified than any week recently. You may have intended it as a form of praise but it certainly doesn't read that way.

[S15]

START USING IT AND I WILL CHANGE FROM THE STAR

Another nail in the coffin Waggy.

I believe the first step you need to take is upgrading from The Star to The Sport. One small step at a time big man.