[Archived] Tottenham Vs Rovers

[Harry Balls]

Bizarre subs, in my opinion putting Di Santo on with 30 mins to go would have been suicide it would have played well into spurs hands and we would have been steamrollered due to all the gaps in midfield! We were well in the game until Brown had his howler so 4-5-1 was ugly but was working. Maybe Sam thought nick a goal back then go 442 abit later, Di Santo has not set the world alight with goals and for me that sub was pretty logical. Andrews was brought on as Emerton was pish, so again pretty logical.

Despite the fact that Andrews is bloody awful, bringing him on for Emerton may have made some sense. However, he was effectively brought on for Givet. Now unless Givet had picked up a knock then that would have been nothing but bizarre.

[RoyRover]

It was a pretty drab match, with very little actually happening. I thought that defensively we made a couple of mistakes and they were all punished. Chimbonda and Salgado did not have good games and again did very little going forward. Andy Gray, who I think usually talks total nonsense, hit it on the head when he said that if that's all we create in terms of chances in a game, no wonder we hardly ever score. And it's true. Maybe Sam needs to bring in some players that allow him to play a different way, but at the moment, any sort of attacking pressure only comes from set pieces. Even then, we are just hoping that something falls to one of our players and he has the ability to score. For the majority of the game, we are just looking for an opportunity to lump into the box and it really isn't good enough at this level, because you need more in your locker than that. We may be able to get away with it against teams similar to ourselves at home, but when we play away from, it rarely works. As I said, hopefully Sam will be able to bring in players in the summer who can create and take chances from open play and not just hope that something falls to them from a long throw, which is how it appears at the moment.

[Amo]

People speak about Salgado being the weak link and the lack of cover by Emerton, but if Hoilett had started his pace and energy might have discouraged Bale from bombing forward at every turn. Without pace, our team is all too easily dominated on the road.

[imy9]

This is what really pi$$es me off about Allardyce. We were awful and I can't believe that anyone would try to argue otherwise.

Yes, the goals we conceded were poor and should have been prevented. But that does not mean we deserved anything from this game. On the contrary, it would have been an injustice to the sport if we did steal a point.

If he was happy with that pathetic display then I would be very worried...

We had 49% possession AWAY from home at Spurs, we had the same number of shots on goal as Spurs, 7 each.

We had a cast iron pen turned down at 0-0, we were also denied a certain goal at 3-1, we gave away sloppy goals which were down to individual errors.

It irks me that Sam haters are making out that this was the worst display that they have ever seen, it was far from it, Andy Gray made a point of saying that we were playing some good football.

[Tris]

You don't need to be the great sage of all things Rovers to see that you know f**k all about football from your posts. Even after this loss we're 5pts clear of 13th with two hard games out of the way, one which we did well in and lost unfairly, and one where we played poorly.

I know you're not alone, there's waggy, Tris and various others...you have the collective footballing nous of one of the obese chest beaters at St James' Park...

It's no surprise to discover you can't even count, but with Sunderland on 30 points and us on 34 we haven't been 5 points clear of 13th at any stage today. With Bolton moving to 32 it's one of the more stupid observations made on this thread.

But with all your football genius knowledge, you can perhaps explain how Rovers boast a better home record than Aston Villa but a worse away record than Portsmouth.

The players are good enough to get results in this league, the home form proves that. It's the same players who travel away, the pitches are still green and the goals are the same size.

So the preparation, tactics, approach and attitude must be at fault for away games - a fact which is blindingly obvious to anyone who has been to even a handful of away games since December 2008. That is entirely down to the management on the football side. Nothing else.

[Darwen Rover]

Based on todays perfomance my team for Chelsea would be:

Robinson

Emerton Givet Samba Olssen

Nzonzi

Diouf Basturk Pederson Hoillett

Kalinic

Subs:

Brown

Chimbonda

Dunn

Roberts

DiSanto

Andrews

Youth player

In games where we can match the opposition, especially home its time to give disanto and kalinic a proper run together.

In the summer we need to get shut of the following players:

- Chimbonda - too much of a liability too many times, not what we need!

- Salgado - sorry mate not good enough for the PL, free up the wages, legs have gone!

We need to tie down / bring in the following types of players:

- Disanto - really think this guy will come good you know showed some good touches today and has been unlucky as the games I have seen him in he has been very good, granted finishing has not been great but once he scores a few reckon he's gonna be the real deal, really think him and Kalinic compliment each other massively!

- A full back who can play both sides to cover Olssen / Emerton.

- Tie down Pedersen, or alternatively replace him with a good all round midfielder (easier said than done I know).

Am in two minds about the contribution of Roberts as when he comes on as a sub he can be a real handful!??

Andrews (controversial as this may be) is a good backup, although if Fulham want to offer anything over £2m I'd snap there hands off!!

Right Sam, you know what you need to do now get on with it!!

[tony gale's mic]

I would say that your posts prove your total lack of any football nous too, but hey, it's an opinions game. Ours differ, I can accept that without getting personal - it seems you can't take it when people don't agree with you. Perhaps that's because when it comes to football it happens rather a lot?

Granted we've done well to be 13th, but it's largely in spite of BFS, not because of him.

Oh, and I'm STILL waiting for the list of BFS 'inspired' decisions. Something tells me you're struggling, either because there are so few or you're too busy cracking one off over a life-size pic of Allardyce.

We've had several good signings, an excellent home record which you don't get without having good tactics at home and some substitutions which have won us points (such as having 3 up front vs Portsmouth second half - people questioned Roberts coming on but he was crucial that day), moving Pedersen into the middle where he's largely been much better than previously, playing Olsson on the wing...those are just some. Opposed to that there's our tactics away from home but noone's saying the man is without his faults.

You seem to suggest that those who disagree with you are "cracking one off" over Allardyce and think he's a "genius". Maybe you feel the need to misrepresent the views of others to make your own views appear rational? I think if we finish 12th as we're on course to, then it will have been a satisfactory season. Not great, not terrible, but satisfactory.

There are now 7 clubs (Big 4, Villa, Spurs, City) - in fact 8 if you include Everton who can spend a combined £24m on two CMs - who are way ahead of us in terms of what they can fork out for players and the wages they can spend. The only way we can finish ahead of them is if they underperform. Spurs underperformed for years and only recently have got it together but thats why we used to finish ahead of them. Obviously the big spending version City weren't around during Hughes' reign but under Hughes we finished about as high as we possibly could have (6th) or close to that, which is why we were 6th, 7th and 10th under him.

Under Sam though there's 8 teams instead of 6 who have more resources and have got their act together so really the highest we could finish is 9th. Birmingham are doing much better than us and are more likely having a flash in the pan season but apart from that we're 4 points from Fulham, 2 points from Stoke and ahead of everyone else.

How much higher do you think another manager could take us? 9th? 8th if we're lucky? That still wouldnt get us into Europe but there's far, far more scope for a new manager to do worse than Sam.

[USABlue]

I thought we were crap today. No real effort I didn't think. Even pulling one back we did not harry spur at all. The bright spot to me was the few link ups between DiSanto and Kalinic. Surely there is a potential there, has Sam seen this in training? Oh sorry, too positive what am I thinking. Overall poor very poor and I felt Spurs were there for the taking if we'd had a real go.

Great result at t'turf today though. Takes the edge off the loss.

[Harry Balls]

We had 49% possession AWAY from home at Spurs, we had the same number of shots on goal as Spurs, 7 each.

You realize that you're doing an Allardyce by quoting statistics to argue that we were ever in the game?

We were crap. There's nothing good to take from that performance. Seven shots on goal you say. Apart from our goal, how many of them troubled their keeper? In fact, I don't even care. Statistics like these are meaningless.

We had a cast iron pen turned down at 0-0, we were also denied a certain goal at 3-1, we gave away sloppy goals which were down to individual errors.

If you're talking about the foul on Dunn, I think you'll find that Palacios got the ball before Corluka bundled him down. Anyway, if you really want to play that game then Tottenham had at least two stone wall penalties for fouls by Salgado on Bale.

It irks me that Sam haters are making out that this was the worst display that they have ever seen, it was far from it, Andy Gray made a point of saying that we were playing some good football.

And now you're using Andy Gray as evidence that we played well. I give up...

[tony gale's mic]

It's no surprise to discover you can't even count, but with Sunderland on 30 points and us on 34 we haven't been 5 points clear of 13th at any stage today. With Bolton moving to 32 it's one of the more stupid observations made on this thread.

But with all your football genius knowledge, you can perhaps explain how Rovers boast a better home record than Aston Villa but a worse away record than Portsmouth.

The players are good enough to get results in this league, the home form proves that. It's the same players who travel away, the pitches are still green and the goals are the same size.

So the preparation, tactics, approach and attitude must be at fault for away games - a fact which is blindingly obvious to anyone who has been to even a handful of away games since December 2008. That is entirely down to the management on the football side. Nothing else.

It was 4 points clear, not 5 points, that Bolton match hadn't happened when I made the post. One point out maybe with Bolton having played one more match than us - not nearly as earth shatteringly stupid as most of your posts made on here. Especially during the time of Paul Ince's reign. Remember that Tris? By your reckoning too we should be well on the way to the Championship now too under Sam.

Noone is arguing that our tactics away from home are great. However noone in their right mind would use that as a reason to get rid of the manager when the home form is so good and the overall picture is satisfactory. Given the choice, I think we'd all prefer a good home record and a poor away record to the other way round. Of course we should be working hard on trying to have both records good but it's hardly a reason to remove the manager now is it? It is something that should be worked on but then we were very good at Anfield and deserved something from that game and that did show definite signs of improvement away from home.

We've got 4 more away games - Burnley, Pompey, Wolves and Villa. Three of those games we really should be getting points from and if we still fall flat in those games then it'll show we havent progressed at all over the season on the road. However we've just played two of the sides going for a Champions' League spot and been outplayed once. Not great, but hardly something to get alarm bells ringing either...

[Blue n White Rover]

You realize that you're doing an Allardyce by quoting statistics to argue that we were ever in the game?

We were crap. There's nothing good to take from that performance. Seven shots on goal you say. Apart from our goal, how many of them troubled their keeper? In fact, I don't even care. Statistics like these are meaningless.

If you're talking about the foul on Dunn, I think you'll find that Palacios got the ball before Corluka bundled him down. Anyway, if you really want to play that game then Tottenham had at least two stone wall penalties for fouls by Salgado on Bale.

And now you're using Andy Gray as evidence that we played well. I give up...

It was a clear Penalty for Rovers, and a clear penalty for Spurs. The 2nd shout was outside of the box so would've been a free kick.

Kalinic had a clear goal disallowed to. Chimbonda and Salgado are the main culprits.

Considering out away performances to the likes of Chelsea, United, Stoke, Everton and the list goes on. We have certainly improved. It's just a matter of time before we click together and start picking up points. Nothing major to worry about. The team played well and like everyone said, just individual errors has cost us.

[broadsword]

Salgado wasn't antrocious...that was down to the manager and emerton. Theres no way anyone could have thought before that game that salgado could match bale for pace.

Eh? Salgado wasn't atrocious because it should've been realised before the game that Salgado would be atrocious, so it's the manager's fault for playing him?

He was absolute bobbins, hardly got nywhere near Bale. Now, Bale might be one of the better left wing men in the division, I don't know, I don't keep tabs. But even so, Salgado looked like what he is - out of his depth. He should've retired already. Why didn't Allardyce take him off for God's sakes, he was a glaring weak point.

Our pattern of play didn't look too bad, but we rarely threatened. All in all, we looked like a team which cost 10% of what Spurs' team did, which is probably the case.

At least it was better than Birmingham away.

[American]

Didn't we have to sell him to balance the books?

Only after the wages for Salgado were added.

Sam wanted Salgado. He was told the only way he could get him was to raise enough money to cover his wages.

Right back Chimbonda was then brought in as our replacement left back.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Another away game ANOTHER defeat.

So sick and tired of these half arsed away performances,we are just far too casual in our style of play.No passion,guile or craft to shape an win away from home,change it Sam for next season or our away support will consist of one away travel coach per game at this rate.

Easy game at the Turd moor anyone?....as crap as they are I think we might all be in for shock.

[Harry Balls]

It was a clear Penalty for Rovers, and a clear penalty for Spurs. The 2nd shout was outside of the box so would've been a free kick.

Kalinic had a clear goal disallowed to. Chimbonda and Salgado are the main culprits.

Considering out away performances to the likes of Chelsea, United, Stoke, Everton and the list goes on. We have certainly improved. It's just a matter of time before we click together and start picking up points. Nothing major to worry about. The team played well and like everyone said, just individual errors has cost us.

Palacios got the ball, watch the replay.

This a moot point anyway, the fact remains we did not deserve anything from this game. I really don't know how anyone could be satisfied with that performance. We were completely and utterly toothless. Tris hit the nail on the head perfectly with his last post:

The players are good enough to get results in this league, the home form proves that. It's the same players who travel away, the pitches are still green and the goals are the same size.

So the preparation, tactics, approach and attitude must be at fault for away games - a fact which is blindingly obvious to anyone who has been to even a handful of away games since December 2008. That is entirely down to the management on the football side. Nothing else.

[tony gale's mic]

Only after the wages for Salgado were added.

Sam wanted Salgado. He was told the only way he could get him was to raise enough money to cover his wages.

Right back Chimbonda was then brought in as our replacement left back.

I still think this theory that Warnock was sold for Salgado is a load of rubbish. The maths simply don't add up.

Warnock was sold for £7 million.

Salgado is probably on 30k a week. Even over two years that's £3 million and we would have been paying at least that much to Warnock over the course of his contract so it would cancel out. Therefore the idea that Warnock was just sold for Salgado when we wouldve got a £7 million surplus from the deal plain doesn't make sense.

[American]

40k per week, and we also had to pay for Chimbonda with a 2.5 million transfer fee and wages.

[texasrover]

dunn was hopeless today. beyond the half shout for a penalty, he did nothing besides try to do too much. rushed passes that didn't need rushing, and did nothing defensively.

i think he's great when playing his best, but today he should have been subbed at halftime, imo, and given basturk a shot.

hope robinson will be ok, as he's been playing well recently.

[imy9]

You realize that you're doing an Allardyce by quoting statistics to argue that we were ever in the game?

We were crap. There's nothing good to take from that performance. Seven shots on goal you say. Apart from our goal, how many of them troubled their keeper? In fact, I don't even care. Statistics like these are meaningless.

If you're talking about the foul on Dunn, I think you'll find that Palacios got the ball before Corluka bundled him down. Anyway, if you really want to play that game then Tottenham had at least two stone wall penalties for fouls by Salgado on Bale.

And now you're using Andy Gray as evidence that we played well. I give up...

we had a lot of the ball in the game away from home, had the same number of shots on goals as Spurs AND had a number of key decisions go against us. I am using facts to support my opinion, by simply stating that Rovers are crap is not exactly a convincing argument.

Oh I cited Andy Gray as he has clearly more football nous than you...

[Guest Kamy100]

I thought that the performance was ok, much better than on most of our away games this season. However, it was a shocking defensive display. We gave them three goals and the limited times that they put on any sort of pressure it resulted in them creating chances, this has happened on regular occasions this season, we simply do not make the opposition "work" for their goals away from home, some of is due to poor cover being provided by the midfield, some of it is due to our defenders lacking concentration at key moments.

We simply have to improve our away from next season, we can't rely on having another good season of home form.

[graddomi88]

How can anyone use "Palacios got the ball" as a reason for us not getting a pen?

Basically what you're saying is if I poke the ball away from someone and then my teammate comes in just after I do this and kicks the guy up in the air.. that's not a foul then is it because I played the ball?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

we had a lot of the ball in the game away from home, had the same number of shots on goals as Spurs AND had a number of key decisions go against us. I am using facts to support my opinion, by simply stating that Rovers are crap is not exactly a convincing argument.

Oh I cited Andy Gray as he has clearly more football nous than you...

I agree that we didn't play too badly today. We were let down by terrible performances by our full backs. I won't blame Brown too much - yes he should have stopped the goal, but it did dip just in front of him - and he had previously made two blinding saves.

However, please don't use Andy Gray as some bastion of football knowledge - he is a fool, who lets his bias towards top 4 teams - and those he used to play for - get in the way of any meangful commentary,

[Paul]

I still think this theory that Warnock was sold for Salgado is a load of rubbish. The maths simply don't add up.

Warnock was sold for £7 million.

Salgado is probably on 30k a week. Even over two years that's £3 million and we would have been paying at least that much to Warnock over the course of his contract so it would cancel out. Therefore the idea that Warnock was just sold for Salgado when we wouldve got a £7 million surplus from the deal plain doesn't make sense.

I think Warnock was sold to cover a £5m hole in the budget, presumably part of that is / was wages. I think you're correct Warnock wasn't sold just to cover Salgado but I'm pretty sure he was sold simply to balance the books.

[tony gale's mic]

40k per week, and we also had to pay for Chimbonda with a 2.5 million transfer fee and wages.

Either way I doubt Salgado is on any more than what Warnock was on so it would still cancel out. Even in the unlikely scenario he was on 10k more then thats still just over 500k for the year as wage budget is worked out on an annual basis rather than over the length of a player's contract. Even with Chimbonda (who cost £2m not £2.5m) that still doesn't add up.

Warnock would have left whether or not Salgado arrived. There was a shortfall in our budget generally and also Warnock wanted to leave.

[MarkBRFC71]

We've had several good signings, an excellent home record which you don't get without having good tactics at home and some substitutions which have won us points (such as having 3 up front vs Portsmouth second half - people questioned Roberts coming on but he was crucial that day), moving Pedersen into the middle where he's largely been much better than previously, playing Olsson on the wing...those are just some. Opposed to that there's our tactics away from home but noone's saying the man is without his faults.

You seem to suggest that those who disagree with you are "cracking one off" over Allardyce and think he's a "genius". Maybe you feel the need to misrepresent the views of others to make your own views appear rational? I think if we finish 12th as we're on course to, then it will have been a satisfactory season. Not great, not terrible, but satisfactory.

There are now 7 clubs (Big 4, Villa, Spurs, City) - in fact 8 if you include Everton who can spend a combined £24m on two CMs - who are way ahead of us in terms of what they can fork out for players and the wages they can spend. The only way we can finish ahead of them is if they underperform. Spurs underperformed for years and only recently have got it together but thats why we used to finish ahead of them. Obviously the big spending version City weren't around during Hughes' reign but under Hughes we finished about as high as we possibly could have (6th) or close to that, which is why we were 6th, 7th and 10th under him.

Under Sam though there's 8 teams instead of 6 who have more resources and have got their act together so really the highest we could finish is 9th. Birmingham are doing much better than us and are more likely having a flash in the pan season but apart from that we're 4 points from Fulham, 2 points from Stoke and ahead of everyone else.

How much higher do you think another manager could take us? 9th? 8th if we're lucky? That still wouldnt get us into Europe but there's far, far more scope for a new manager to do worse than Sam.

Not wanting to drag this on, we'll just have to agree to disagree about the manager.

I'll guarantee you we will not finish 12th though.