[Archived] England

[K-Hod]

Gareth Barry is England's Keith Andrews- so pan average it's painful.

There was all this talk about having an overhaul of the squad but nothing much has changed.

Glen Johnson needs to take defending lessons from Ashely Cole-if he does we could have 1 of the best full-back combinations in the world.

There's no doubt Davies was @#/? in blue and white but he did alright when he came on last night- our lack of strength in depth/injuries to key players was highlighted last night.

The main gripe I have is- WHY IS SHAUN WRIGHT-PHILLIPS CONTINUALLY PICKED? HE IS DREADFUL!!!!

[MarkBRFC71]

When Kevin Davies came on for England, what better example is there that shows English football under the stewardship of the FA has gone backwards over the past ten years or so. If Steven Gerard wasnt playing for England how bad would we be really looking.

Players like Gerrard are part of the problem - brainless, vastly overrated, and athletes before footballers.

The only players to emerge with any credit for me were Adam Johnson (at last an England player who can actually run with the ball at feet) and Ferdinand.

We'll do nothing until the focus from the bottom up is on finding and coaching footballers, rather than finding 6ft-plus athletes and trying to turn them into footballers.

[Sparky Marky]

Players like Gerrard are part of the problem - brainless, vastly overrated, and athletes before footballers.

That's a very silly statement. If you read Gerrards biography by a chap called Phil Thompson(not the same one) it says that Liverpool were concerned about his size early on and then he seemed to grow overnight into this "Bison" of a player....I think that his footballing prowess was foremost in their minds when they took him to the club.

[RoyRover]

This is a good piece about how England are a second rate side.

[MarkBRFC71]

That's a very silly statement. If you read Gerrards biography by a chap called Phil Thompson(not the same one) it says that Liverpool were concerned about his size early on and then he seemed to grow overnight into this "Bison" of a player....I think that his footballing prowess was foremost in their minds when they took him to the club.

Compare Gerrard to Xavi. Gerrard is probably more athletic than Xavi, but Xavi is in a different league technique wise. English coaching is set up to find Gerrard-type players, not Xavi type ones. Is it coincidence that Spain are World and Euro champions, and we haven't been in even a semi-final since 1996, haven't beaten any top team in a meaningful game since Argentina in 2002 (and even then it took a penalty), and haven't won anything in 44 years?

An example: my Dad coached Blackburn town teams, and whenever coaches from local clubs (including Rovers) would watch, they'd only be interested in the biggest players for their age group, and the smaller lads - even if they were obviously better players - would usually be ignored.

You can probably get away with one or two Gerrard type players in a team, but a full midfield of them just doesn't work. Unfortunately our coaching system has left us with pretty much identikit players to choose from. It's no coincidence that Gerrard's performances for Liverpool dipped hugely since Xabi Alonso left - he provided the class, technique, guile and intelligence that Gerrard lacks, and England just don't have any Alonso type players.

It's heartening to see Adam Johnson come through though, as he is something different from the norm, and more of a throwback to an old-style winger.

[ABBEY]

######, take off your rose tinted glasses.

He did more good things in 15min then Crouch did for the rest.

Barry produced one of the worst england performances ive ever seen. He was awful.

15 MINS! 4 FOULS INC AN ELBOW!! AND A YELLOW CARD.

Just what has the pigeon chested dolloper done to deserve being an international?

250+ games for bolton 50 goals? 1 goal every 5 games? That is not the strike rate of an international player nor is someone who gets more cards than goals. If he is one of the elite players in this country then english footy is up ###### creek without a paddle.

[DE.]

I thought Davies was alright when he came on, won a lot of balls pumped up to him and nearly combined scrappily with Rooney to help us score towards the end. His yellow was harsh, good acting by the Montenegro player though. Davies is not the answer to our problems, mind, and his cap seemed like more of a token gesture than anything.

England pretty much dominated the match but lack any type of cutting edge. Rooney is so off form it's sad to watch, whilst the likes of Gerrard and Barry will never be creative enough to unlock a defence. The less said about Glenn Johnson & SWP the better. Both are shocking and should be nowhere near the England team.

Our defence, at the very least, looked solid. Other than the spectacular dipping shot at the end Montenegro created nothing. If Defoe or Bent had been playing I think we would have nicked at least one goal. Rooney can't just keep being picked on name value, though hopefully by the time our next qualifier comes round he'll have finally regained his form. If not, he shouldn't start.

[JAL]

Compare Gerrard to Xavi. Gerrard is probably more athletic than Xavi, but Xavi is in a different league technique wise. English coaching is set up to find Gerrard-type players, not Xavi type ones. Is it coincidence that Spain are World and Euro champions, and we haven't been in even a semi-final since 1996, haven't beaten any top team in a meaningful game since Argentina in 2002 (and even then it took a penalty), and haven't won anything in 44 years?

An example: my Dad coached Blackburn town teams, and whenever coaches from local clubs (including Rovers) would watch, they'd only be interested in the biggest players for their age group, and the smaller lads - even if they were obviously better players - would usually be ignored.

You can probably get away with one or two Gerrard type players in a team, but a full midfield of them just doesn't work. Unfortunately our coaching system has left us with pretty much identikit players to choose from. It's no coincidence that Gerrard's performances for Liverpool dipped hugely since Xabi Alonso left - he provided the class, technique, guile and intelligence that Gerrard lacks, and England just don't have any Alonso type players.

It's heartening to see Adam Johnson come through though, as he is something different from the norm, and more of a throwback to an old-style winger.

Mark, you cant point to Steven Gerrard and a few overlooked Blackburn midgets, on England not beating any top meaningful nation at International football, surely not.

[JAL]

One coaching example of were England fall down in respect of other nations at football was when Rio Ferdinand twice had the ball ten or so yards further up field from the back line, in space with the ball at his feet.

The Germans and the Brazilians in the same situation, if one of their centre backs had this ball the player would create an attack, springing forward with a freedom to support and help an attack. What Rio did was, make a very short pass to one of his midfielders and return quickly into his backline position. Ive been seeing this in English football for the past forty years.

Dull, boring, FA coaching, and please forget Capello and his Italians, this incident was and is a deeprooted English mentality. Pretty sure that many English coaches must wash their feet with their socks on.

[super_arran]

15 MINS! 4 FOULS INC AN ELBOW!! AND A YELLOW CARD.

Just what has the pigeon chested dolloper done to deserve being an international?

250+ games for bolton 50 goals? 1 goal every 5 games? That is not the strike rate of an international player nor is someone who gets more cards than goals. If he is one of the elite players in this country then english footy is up ###### creek without a paddle.

Have you got any assist stats for Davies? because I think you'll find it's quite high.

He creates more goals than he scores. That's his game.

and it wasn't an elbow was it he backed in to the guy, put his arm up to the defenders chest and the sniper from the stands took aim.

You failed to mention him having a hand in setting Rooney and Barry up in them 15mins he was on the pitch....

But fair enough we wont talk about the good things

[ABBEY]

he has no good things...ok seeing there is davies love on here ,would you please tell me what he has done to earn a call up ?

hes a very poor heskey.

[super_arran]

he has no good things...ok seeing there is davies love on here ,would you please tell me what he has done to earn a call up ?

hes a very poor heskey.

So his hold up play is no good then?

As regards to your quetion, for the proper answer you'd have to asked Capello but I would think it's because he's been highly affective at Bolton for years and has been the clubs engine. Plus he's having quite a good season.

What other English striker was there to choose from last night?

[thenodrog]

When Kevin Davies came on for England, what better example is there that shows English football under the stewardship of the FA has gone backwards over the past ten years or so. If Steven Gerard wasnt playing for England how bad would we be really looking.

I was going to reply but thats obviously a joke right Jal? Good one!

[thenodrog]

he has no good things...ok seeing there is davies love on here ,would you please tell me what he has done to earn a call up ?

hes a very poor heskey.

The paucity of talent in England at the moment means that Kevin Davies is a very good option and as I have said many times on here he should have been give a chance years ago.

To be brutally honest we only have two players of invention available to England's midfield. The unfavoured Joe Cole and the rookie Adam Johnson. The rest of the attacking midfielders are the likes Gerrard, Lampard and Milner... players who are strong and direct but could not thread a pass to save their lives. Any notions of England playing a continental style of passing football are ludicrous. It's simply not in the psyche of the players available. We have to play to our strengths which unfortunately for many is long ball to a strong back to goal centre forward who can lay the ball back or off to strong running midfielders. Kevin Davies is the best at that there is.

Playing to a teams weaknesses will never win anything. If we had a few Gazza's or a Hoddles then fine but unfortunately we haven't.

[J-2]

This is a good piece about how England are a second rate side.

Very good read...and should be sobering for some of the delusional supporters who actually want to go back to an English manager. Replacing Capello would be akin to putting new tires onto a car with no engine.

Seems as if more and more journos are finally getting it. England simply are not top class, and it's going to take a fair amount of restructuring and time before they are. Staying on the current course just delays the inevitable.

[Presty On Tour]

Wales u16's are playing England u16's a few miles down the road from me.

Latest score is 4-0 to Wales. It's on Sky Sports 2 too.

[LeChuck]

It's going to be very interesting to see how Capello gets Wilshere into the England team. He's got to be starting soon surely, the boy is a bit special.

Ideally you'd want him as the central attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, but Rooney plays that role. I know he's played deeper sometimes for Arsenal but he and Gerrard together would leave us weak defensively. He might end up going on the left due to being left footed.

[roversfan99]

Id play Rooney on his own, he can do that role, with Wilshire off and Gerrard and probably Huddlestone further back in a 4-2-3-1.

[chaddyrovers]

Id play Rooney on his own, he can do that role, with Wilshire off and Gerrard and probably Huddlestone further back in a 4-2-3-1.

I agree with playing wilshere off the striker with Gerrard and Huddlestone behind him. Adam Johnson and Ashley Young on the wing. I would play Crouch at the mo up front.

[John]

It's going to be very interesting to see how Capello gets Wilshere into the England team. He's got to be starting soon surely, the boy is a bit special.

I did not realise how good Wilshere is until I watched him earlier this season - already is top class and will only get better.

[philipl]

There are perhaps four teenagers in England who should be used to sweep the old failures out of the way. The problem is there is no cover in key positions like forward and right back and the youngsters are playing where "national treasures" like Gerrard and Lampard are hanging around.

[thenodrog]

I've said many time that if I were England manager that either Gerrard or Lampard would watch an England match from the bench and the other from his front room. I now think it's time for both to watch from their front rooms and Rooney can watch from the bench. Wilshire and Milner are currently in front of them all.

btw.... Time for all those who have used the words Lampard and Gerrard in the same sentence as the term 'World class' to own up in shame and embarrassment.

[broadsword]

Certainly some of the big name players' performances for England have smacked of people who believe they can't be dropped.

Rooney needs a head doctor. Ferdinand, Terry, Lampard should all be consigned to the dustbin.

[MarkBRFC71]

I've said many time that if I were England manager that either Gerrard or Lampard would watch an England match from the bench and the other from his front room. I now think it's time for both to watch from their front rooms and Rooney can watch from the bench. Wilshire and Milner are currently in front of them all.

btw.... Time for all those who have used the words Lampard and Gerrard in the same sentence as the term 'World class' to own up in shame and embarrassment.

Couldn't agree more Theno. Unfortunately lots of people believe the hype fed to them by the red-tops, whether it's about those two being World Class, England still being a 'power' on the world stage or the Prem being the best league in the world. All b*ll*cks IMO.

[BuckyRover]

Lampard is injured. How many goals and assists did he get last season? That's not red top hyperbole, it's a fact

(Cue comments that the team is set up just to make him look good).