[Archived] England

[Mattyblue]

You get more upset about England than Rovers?

I just seem to laugh at their mistakes these days.

[speeeeeeedie]

You get more upset about England than Rovers?

I just seem to laugh at their mistakes these days.

I really do. I put it down to not living in England and having to defend myself after we play. Plus, world cups and Euros are not the same when England are not there and I really enjoy them.

No one cares about Rovers aside from Rovers fans who moan like mad at the best of times. I also expect much less from Rovers. In the last 20 years, aside from Dalglish's teams, we lost more than we've won. So why get mad? 300+ pages of Steve Kean is terrible is not worth it.

[JAL]

Anybody spot the mistake by the officials, and missed by ITV sports, regarding the application of the Laws of the game and a first half offside decision when John Terry deflects a shot into the path of Joe Hart, Joe Hart saves it by pushing it out only for an on running Swiss player to have another shot, which Joe Hart saves again, then the assistant raises his flag and the referee awards an offside against the Swiss player.

You can't be offside if a defender touches the ball last.

[Andy]

I think blame can absolutely be levelled at Hart for both goals.

First one, he didn't anticipate the direction that the ball was travelling.

Fair enough, he had to consider that one of the attackers may have got something on the bouncing ball, but surely he should be following the ball into the far corner - two steps to his left and he simply catches the ball, rather than reacting once the ball was past him.

The second one, the wall shouldn't have split firstly, but the fact that Hart dives with his feet rather than his hands is horrendous GK technique.

I honestly feel that if he dives like a normal GK, with his hands, he pushes that out.

I am a Hart fan, but he was certainly at fault (at very least in part) today.

Doesn't take away from an overall poor England performance - or a good Swiss one for that matter - but the fact that Hart plays ahead of the vastly superior Robinson (pre-retirement) just baffles me.

[Tom]

I'm sure you can as long as it's still classed as the same phase of play, although I'm unsure of the latest rules, the player would have been offside when the Swiss player struck the ball initially.

I didn't even realise we had a game today until this afternoon, that's how much I care about England these days after that shocking turnout in summer

[JAL]

I'm sure you can as long as it's still classed as the same phase of play, although I'm unsure of the latest rules, the player would have been offside when the Swiss player struck the ball initially.

You have to be interfering with play during that first phase of play when Terry touched the ball, the player in this situation could only have been ruled offside if he'd been blocking the view of the goalkeeper which he wasnt.

This is yet another fine example of how British TV misleads the ordinary fan on the application of the offside law. It might be a good idea to start a thread on mistakes overlooked by TV sports thats ITV BBC and SKY.

[RoyRover]

More evidence, as if it were needed, of what a thoroughly average side England are. ITV couldn't help themselves and had to talk about how England had turned a corner and were on the way up. Dear oh dear, will they never learn?

[Darwen Rover]

Cannot believe so many so called professionals blaming.... TIREDNESS!!! Get a grip people!!!

[Baz]

I think blame can absolutely be levelled at Hart for both goals.

First one, he didn't anticipate the direction that the ball was travelling.

Fair enough, he had to consider that one of the attackers may have got something on the bouncing ball, but surely he should be following the ball into the far corner - two steps to his left and he simply catches the ball, rather than reacting once the ball was past him.

The second one, the wall shouldn't have split firstly, but the fact that Hart dives with his feet rather than his hands is horrendous GK technique.

I honestly feel that if he dives like a normal GK, with his hands, he pushes that out.

I am a Hart fan, but he was certainly at fault (at very least in part) today.

Doesn't take away from an overall poor England performance - or a good Swiss one for that matter - but the fact that Hart plays ahead of the vastly superior Robinson (pre-retirement) just baffles me.

Agree Hart was to blame for both goals - albeit the second goal the wall should have done a better job too.

Hart plays because he plays for a 'big club' just like Robert Green and David James before him, and as did Robbo when he was no1 too (ironically dropped after his kicking mistake against Croatia - actually one of his strongest assets).

Why wasnt Rooney playing? (I honestly dont know)

[RoyRover]

Why wasnt Rooney playing? (I honestly dont know)

Maybe he was tired?

[speeeeeeedie]

Why wasnt Rooney playing? (I honestly dont know)

He was banned.

The 2nd goal. Just before the kick was taken, Hart takes a step away from his near post so when the ball goes through the wall his weight is all to his left so he tried with his feet. All in a cock up.

However it's still in our hands as Montenegro drew at home too.

[Tom]

Maybe he was tired?

Too busy getting his hair transplant

[joey_big_nose]

The result last night shows that England still have a long way to go to try and get in the top bracket - or probably should be called the second bracket as Spain are way out in a class of their own - of European sides. When you look at the squad only Rooney (unavailable last night), Wilshire (still young) and Ferdinand look like top class international players currently. A Cole, Lampard, Gerrard all have undoubted quality but increasingly struggle with injury with age and have problems turning club form into international class.

The problem is we have a lot of goodish players who have moved around the Prem for outlandish amounts of money - Milner, Young, Barry, Bent, Parker, G Johnson, A Johnson, Crouch, Downing, Defoe, Caroll - but of those only Parker and A Johnson convince me that they can be part of a team that can realistically have a go at beating Germany, Portugal or Italy. Caroll is a bit of wild card but he is struggling for fitness. Young has played well, but so many times has failed to make the grade you have to suspect it is a temporary upturn of form.

We are relying heavily on the development of Caroll, Wilshire, A Johnson (who mystifyingly to me did not even make the bench - why was that?) and the as yet to be established talent of likes of Smalling, Jagielka and Phil Jones to turn the corner, and that is a big ask. I think we are going to have at least another two years of being an also ran team, and when you look at the talent the other big nations are bringing through it is a bleak picture.

[patrickvalery]

I just can't explain how fed up i have become of England and international football. As long as the Premier League is a gravy train, our international hopes will continue to fade. Because it is imperative teams stay in the top tier of English football for fear of financial melt down, we breed a win at all costs, ugly, physical football in all but a few clubs. Those with real money can afford to buy the best players who play the best football. Those who cannot, condition players to out fight and out jump the best. This is drilled into too many of our better young players at Premier League and even Championship level clubs.

The one man who tries year on year to win beautifully is Wenger and he gets an absolute roasting for it. He conditions his players to keep the football, feel comfortable in possession, look for the ball and take responsibility for it. Not kick and rush. Not win individual battles and pass the problem on. The media have a bloody field day with him. Yet when our national side put on a display like last night we're up in arms about how we are light years behind Spain and the likes. The fact is, all clubs want to play the beautiful game, but when it comes to the crunch they bottle it for fear of losing their PL status.

What is the answer? Damned if i know. Maybe we accept that in order to win on the international stage we need to resort to the physical approach which is served up by most mid - low PL clubs? Not sure that would work. Holland tried and and failed in the world cup final. Maybe we reduce the chasm between the PL and the Championship so relegation doesn't spell the end for clubs? That could be the answer, but then you accept the fact the league will most likely not attract the best players in the world. Answers on a post card please.

[vintageadidas]

Capello - £5m basic salary a year!!!

It's time for Harry to step up and we need a clear out.

I used to like the England teams that played due to their club form and not the fact they are called Frank Lampard or play for a media club.

Hart

Walker Ferdinand Jagielka Baines

Young Parker Johnson

Wilshire

Rooney Carroll

[K-Hod]

I can't begin to say how poor we were last night....

Only Baines and Ashley Young looked half-decent. The point about Capello's salary is certainly worth noting, surely he's on more than any premiership manager?

We really do have an alarming lack of quality in depth, I still think a lot of players need to be moved out of the setup as well, and get some more youth in.

For the goals, Hart at fault for both for certain, but the way the wall of Walcott/Milner parted when the shot came in was terrible.

[broadsword]

Capello - £5m basic salary a year!!!

It's time for Harry to step up and we need a clear out.

Jesus no, he'd play his bloody nephew until he was 40!

[JAL]

Those lads who played for England yesterday played to the best of their ability.

Ashley Young's goal should have the winner if only James Milner hadn't have gone on a mental walkabout when he was supposed to be blocking the root to goal from a Swiss free kick.

Don't forget that the Swiss have one of the best managers in the world in Ottmar Hitzfeld who just goes to underline why they have improved on International stage.

[McClarky]

When you look at the players in the side yesterday England are the equivalent of an Aston Villa or a Sunderland or someone like that. They have plenty of average players, a few good but past it ones and a few never quite made it ones. No top class players at all though. Don't see how that can improve with the players coming up either to be honest. Rooney and Gerard make a big difference on paper I suppose but neither has looked the part for England much.

[thenodrog]

You can't be offside if a defender touches the ball last.

Used to be that and included deflections but I seem to rem that the law was changed (in the early 80's possibly) so that a touch had to be a deliberate pass / header.

[JAL]

Used to be that and included deflections but I seem to rem that the law was changed (in the early 80's possibly) so that a touch had to be a deliberate pass / header.

Definitely need more clarification on this matter Theno from the governing body.

[RoyRover]

When you look at the players in the side yesterday England are the equivalent of an Aston Villa or a Sunderland or someone like that.

They are a middle of the road international side. They are in the same bracket as a Denmark or Serbia and there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously every team wants to be the best in the world or amongst the best in the world, but unfortunately there are only a few countries that can do so and England aren't one them. Thinking otherwise is delusional and counter productive, as it could lead to people glossing over all the problems that they have and not addressing the issues at hand.

I was listening to 5 Live yesterday after the game and amongst the realistic England supporters who recognise the limitations of the team and the Premier League, you had the same old dreamers, coming out with lines like 'how many of the Swiss team would get into ours?' or 'how many of them would start for a Premiership club?' I blame Sky Sports for hyping up and shoving these England players down people's throats, making them believe that they are world beaters and giving them a false sense of how good they are. Just because people haven't heard of Gokan Inler, Xherdan Shaqiri or Tranquillo Barnetta, because they don't play in the hype machine that is the Premier League, doesn't mean that they aren't better than some of the England players. People are then shocked when these types of players outplay their English counterparts. These delusions of self grandeur seem to prevent some people from asking the more important question of how many of the England team would get onto other European sides?

[McClarky]

'how many of the Swiss team would get into ours?' or 'how many of them would start for a Premiership club?'

Aye, you could ask the same question about the England team, i,e, how many of them would get into a top EPL side on a regular basis. It's like an EPL reserve team.

[jim mk2]

[Aye, you could ask the same question about the England team, i,e, how many of them would get into a top EPL side on a regular basis. It's like an EPL reserve team.

What's the EPL ?

[Roversi]

2nd goal was milners fault, why on earth he decided to move away from theo ill never know. the ball would have been blocked by milner if he had stayed. Fact is, we need a manager the players want to play for, under Wally the Brolly and Capello they never seemed to be really behind him. Get Redknapp in and i think we will see the english passion re-installed.