[Archived] England

[BuckyRover]

I think you lost credibility when you said he has "obviously" lost the dressing room. On what basis?

Had Sir Bobby obviously lost the dressing room when we lost every game at Euro 88?

Sensationalist claptrap. Nothing has changed since the WC, they have been on holiday.

[K-Hod]

I think you lost credibility when you said he has "obviously" lost the dressing room. On what basis?

Had Sir Bobby obviously lost the dressing room when we lost every game at Euro 88?

Sensationalist claptrap. Nothing has changed since the WC, they have been on holiday.

On the basis of the Terry business in the WC. He had the mettle to have a word on a reasonable basis and got shot down- Capello's 'my way or the highway' treatment reminds me of a strict teacher there's no room for manouvere and it's too much.

Sure, the players need discipline but when Capello is blatantly wrong and Terry wants to speak to him on behalf of the players and gets a rebuffal, it makes him (Capello) look like an arrogant two hat......

[thenodrog]

Seems to me that after every International competition there's a media campaign to discredit and oust the England manager. As long as our blood-thirsty press continue in this vein, England will never win anything.

I'm convinced that this one has been initiated and orchestrated by said manager...... ever since the FA numpty's put pen to paper on his hideously extended contract.

Compare....

The Great Train robbers got 30 years each for nicking a million quid. SGE and Capello get a life of unbridled luxury for getting away with 10-20 times that.

[thenodrog]

On the basis of the Terry business in the WC. He had the mettle to have a word on a reasonable basis and got shot down- Capello's 'my way or the highway' treatment reminds me of a strict teacher there's no room for manouvere and it's too much.

Sure, the players need discipline but when Capello is blatantly wrong and Terry wants to speak to him on behalf of the players and gets a rebuffal, it makes him (Capello) look like an arrogant two hat......

Terry has no defence.

1. He did it to fight his own agenda re:Gerrard and captaincy.

2. If he is not captain he has no right speaking on behalf of the players.

3. If he speaks to the manager EVER it's privately and not on all over the back pages of the red tops.

Terry misjudged the situation completely and should not be picked in this squad. Capello's screwed up again by selecting him instead of putting him in his place. It's a simple 'if you are not with me then you are against me' decision.

That's the kind of thinking which saw us end up with Steve McLaren.

Thinking? The FA were seriously and obviously NOT thinking anything at all when they appointed Wally.

Had Sir Bobby obviously lost the dressing room when we lost every game at Euro 88?

He certainly lost them in the World Cup 86.

[Stuart]

I'm convinced that this one has been initiated and orchestrated by said manager...... ever since the FA numpty's put pen to paper on his hideously extended contract.

Compare....

The Great Train robbers got 30 years each for nicking a million quid. SGE and Capello get a life of unbridled luxury for getting away with 10-20 times that.

Extending his contract just before the WC was, in hind-sight barmy.

BUT, and I'm not one to defend the FA, he had just had a very successful qualifying campaign and Inter were threatening to undermine our preparation by poaching the manager. A new deal put to bed all the speculation about the manager.

The players need to take a massive part of the blame though. The wrong kinds of headlines and rumours circulating plus a lack of professionalism when asked to play in roles they don't like. The manager's failure has been to not dump said players.

Granted Capello is by no means a new age man and won't change his approach as that of a head teacher but maybe that's what some of these players need, rather than sycophantic agents and press telling them how great they are and how it's always someone elses fault.

[BuckyRover]

This shows the pervasive influence that the media has. It now appears that it's common knowledge that he has "lost" the dressing room.

When did this information come out? I know we had a poor tournament but that's not the same as losing the dressing room. If we qualify easily for Euro 2012, I will be happy.

[thenodrog]

Extending his contract just before the WC was, in hind-sight barmy.

BUT, and I'm not one to defend the FA, he had just had a very successful qualifying campaign and Inter were threatening to undermine our preparation by poaching the manager. A new deal put to bed all the speculation about the manager.

Hind-sight should have been employed then Jisty not now. It's a carbon copy of the SGE situation. New contract signed just before a major tournament just cos he had a private dinner at Peter Kenyons place and the FA wanted to keep him out of Chelsea's hands. That dinner cost the FA 12m I think.

Not only that it set the bench mark for remuneration of the England manager to a height that I believe is not even matched by any two other international managers. There is an old saying which applies perfectly... 'fools and their money are soon parted'.

[Stuart]

Hind-sight should have been employed then Jisty not now. It's a carbon copy of the SGE situation. New contract signed just before a major tournament just cos he had a private dinner at Peter Kenyons place and the FA wanted to keep him out of Chelsea's hands. That dinner cost the FA 12m I think.

Not only that it set the bench mark for remuneration of the England manager to a height that I believe is not even matched by any two other international managers. There is an old saying which applies perfectly... 'fools and their money are soon parted'.

Interesting, if you're right, about being higher than any two other managers. Begs the question, why isn't half the salary enough to attract these managers? Is it because of the rubbish they have to put up with from our media? Surely no more than somewhere like Brazil or Argentina? Is it because their reputation will effectively be ruined and they'll have to go on to manage 4th division sides; second rate Dutch sides or third world countries?

[BuckyRover]

I see that Crouch has been caught with a hooker now.

Jesus

[Stuart]

A misunderstanding, surely. She was probably just hanging her coat up.

[thenodrog]

Interesting, if you're right, about being higher than any two other managers. Begs the question, why isn't half the salary enough to attract these managers? Is it because of the rubbish they have to put up with from our media? Surely no more than somewhere like Brazil or Argentina? Is it because their reputation will effectively be ruined and they'll have to go on to manage 4th division sides; second rate Dutch sides or third world countries?

http://www.just-football.com/2009/12/world-cup-2010-managers-salaries-aka/

Scandalous given the experiences of getting rid of SGE. 'Inter Milan want me' bollockss. I can't see Inter topping that figure.

[MeanGreenMachine]

The blaming of the media is quite amusing, from what i gather they never made one desison or kicked one ball which influenced the pathetic world cup showing....

If you want to see/hear hostile media, check out Brazil and Argentina.

[Stuart]

The blaming of the media is quite amusing, from what i gather they never made one desison or kicked one ball which influenced the pathetic world cup showing....

If you want to see/hear hostile media, check out Brazil and Argentina.

Our written press sells papers by:

Whipping everyone up into a frenzy pre-tournament

Highlighting every error or bit of luck to the point of a lynching

Creating an idea that our very identity as Englishmen is at stake against the 'Argies' or the 'Krauts'

Following every player (or paying paparazzi to follow) and writing about their privates lives in the interests of some greater good

Lampooning the manager after every tournament and discrediting him, before trying to have him hung for treason (English manager) or run out of the country (foreign manager)

Much like it's not all the manager's fault, obviously it's not all the media's fault - but they don't help!

[MeanGreenMachine]

Hows that different from every other footballing nation?

[K-Hod]

No other nation expects as much as we do, not even teams with actual good footballing teams.......

The media isn't the main cause but they build us up to break us down, but hey that's how they shift units!

[BuckyRover]

I can understand your reluctance to accept it. It's not nice to realise your thoughts are malleable.

But look at Capello's track record in qualifying, his previous track record, what people who have worked with him think about his methods, and then call him "rubbish".

It's a joke. It would be like sacking Sam after a season, many were advocates of giving him time. Why not afford the national manager the same treatment, we didn't even qualify for Euro 2008 and then turned in a near flawless WC qualification campaign (playing 4-4-2). That was one of his major mistakes, doing so well. Very easy to knock him down from that pedestal.

We did play very poorly at the world cup, but he had a contract and see no point in sacking him mid way through it.

[MeanGreenMachine]

No other nation expects as much as we do, not even teams with actual good footballing teams.......

really? I would be quite happy for you to name them. The press in Brazil, Italy, France and Argentina all thought they should be winning it and totally tore them apart when they came home early, that hostile some of the players fearing to go back.

Crapello guided us through a qualifying group with possibley the most easy opponents we could hope for. Got the pick of the draw in the group stages were we just scrapped by and then go throughly shafted by a german under 21's team.

How anyone can defend him or his methods so far is beyond belief.

Lastly, I think it’s a myth between some that everyone in the media and joe public expect to win the WC, I just a decent showing, playing with abit of heart. The players in 1990 came back as hero's because they played like true Englishmen managed by a guy whos blood, swet and tears pushed us on.

[Stuart]

really? I would be quite happy for you to name them. The press in Brazil, Italy, France and Argentina all thought they should be winning it and totally tore them apart when they came home early, that hostile some of the players fearing to go back.

Crapello guided us through a qualifying group with possibley the most easy opponents we could hope for. Got the pick of the draw in the group stages were we just scrapped by and then go throughly shafted by a german under 21's team.

How anyone can defend him or his methods so far is beyond belief.

Lastly, I think it’s a myth between some that everyone in the media and joe public expect to win the WC, I just a decent showing, playing with abit of heart. The players in 1990 came back as hero's because they played like true Englishmen managed by a guy whos blood, swet and tears pushed us on.

You win MGM. All of England's failures since 66 are down to Capello and his methods.

[tony gale's mic]

really? I would be quite happy for you to name them. The press in Brazil, Italy, France and Argentina all thought they should be winning it and totally tore them apart when they came home early, that hostile some of the players fearing to go back.

Crapello guided us through a qualifying group with possibley the most easy opponents we could hope for. Got the pick of the draw in the group stages were we just scrapped by and then go throughly shafted by a german under 21's team.

How anyone can defend him or his methods so far is beyond belief.

Lastly, I think it’s a myth between some that everyone in the media and joe public expect to win the WC, I just a decent showing, playing with abit of heart. The players in 1990 came back as hero's because they played like true Englishmen managed by a guy whos blood, swet and tears pushed us on.

The players in 1990 scraped through the opening stages and very narrowly beat Belgium and Cameroon (minnows at the time) to get to the semis. Granted, it's more than what these guys have done, but I think the 2002 vintage were better myself. They beat better teams and were unlucky enough to meet by far the best team in the tournament in the QF.

Granted they were managed by a foreign and history says they exited at one earlier stage but that doesn't tell the whole story IMO.

[speeeeeeedie]

I'm still very bitter about the World Cup. Something is wrong with the whole set up but I doubt it will be fixed any time soon. I remember reading how to fix it stories after 1998, and we did nothing.

Capello's squad is a strange one. He dropped some of the dollopers but should have got rid of a couple more.

[K-Hod]

Italy and France were two of the only nations with previous tournament pedigree that flopped worse than England.

Brazil and Argentina weren't even that bad, (except for Argies getting panned against Germany, Brazil were unlucky against Netherlands IMO). Because Brazil have won the World Cup 5 times- damn right they should have high expectations!

Argentina have won it twice, and on paper had one of the best squads, and indeed started the tournament brilliantly!

[LeChuck]

Capello's squad is a strange one. He dropped some of the dollopers but should have got rid of a couple more.

For who though? We don't really have much depth. The only one that I'm surprised isn't there is Agbonlahor, I thought he would have been a dead cert.

The other one who I think is close to breaking into the team is Jack Rodwell, but I'm not surprised he's omitted at this stage.

[MeanGreenMachine]

You win MGM. All of England's failures since 66 are down to Capello and his methods.

I love it when people come back with such well thought out and debatable posts… sigh

Where did I say its Capello's fault for every failure? What im saying is Englands performance at the World Cup is indefencible and the fact he thinks we played quite is a smack in the mouth for every fan out there.

[BuckyRover]

Crapello.

I suppose before we played Croatia away (they had never been beaten before at home), they were a good team but now they are rubbish.

The group wasn't dissimilar to our Euro 2008 group when we didn't qualify.

I don't think Capello should have his credentials questioned, his record is beyond reproach. He has now experienced an international tournament and I expect a good qualifying performance and an improved Euro2012.

I expect I will get both

[MeanGreenMachine]

So we can’t judge his record? But we can rely on your expectations? That’s some weird logic there.

England qualified with flying colours, in a group with no real challenge bar Croatia, who seemed to be well below par. In South Africa we were given a dream group which consisted of one of the smallest nations at the WC, an African side where you would struggle to name 5 players before the torno and the Yanks with a mixed bag of talent. It wasn’t a major test but we just scrapped by 2nd in the group. We then came up against a German side who for the best part were very raw and where you would expect people like Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard and Terry to dominate with their experience etc. Instead we succumbed to our worst ever WC defeat…

Since then all we have heard is backbiting and rumouring on unrest, with the manager totally blanking the next generation of players as he needed to but his feet up and blaming the fact our players were tired (Forlan, who was the best player in the torno, played more games last season than any English player).

I would have been in full support of Capello if he would have said exactly how we performed in the WC. It was shocking and embarrassing, but he thought it was alright …