[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[broadsword]

What other businesses do the trust administer?

I know it's a bit sad and pathetic, but I want to know what companies to boycott if they flog us off to some shuysters.

[T4E]

Fan owned clubs work on the continent, its an option.

It really isn't.

[MeanGreenMachine]

Without any real research into how they work and how it would run its abit rash to say that it wouldn’t work. My idea was slightly tongue in cheek to try and get fans to own ‘part’ of the club. Other options have to be considered because the likelihood we will find a buyer who has a proper interest in the club is minimal.

[broadsword]

The eseason-ticket holders you sold the club to would have a limitless liability for the clubs debts. What man in the street would seriously want to take that on, given that we are always making an operating loss?

Not me.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Sounds like we are frucked in all honesty. Can't keep competing with no investment, its just a matter of time before we get relegated and do a Charlton, Southampton or a Forest. Very doubtful we will find an owner that meets the criteria that the trust and fans want.

Yep we are screwed.

[Hughesy]

Sounds like we are frucked in all honesty. Can't keep competing with no investment, its just a matter of time before we get relegated and do a Charlton, Southampton or a Forest. Very doubtful we will find an owner that meets the criteria that the trust and fans want.

Yep we are screwed.

Why?

We sit 12th....so that means there are 8 worse teams in the league at the moment.

[broadsword]

We are punching above our weight Hughesy, that can't be sustained indefinitely.

Unless Allardyce is an absolute genius manager. If we keep being in the bottom 3 for net transfer spend, then inevitably one day we will finish the season in the bottom 3.

The trust just want to dispose of us now, we could end up being sold to anyone who fulfills the criteria in the trust, and they won't give a backward glance.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Why?

We sit 12th....so that means there are 8 worse teams in the league at the moment.

Luck. We have been very lucky that these sides around us have spent their superior budgets on dross. I have no doubt that there will come a time when they spend their money on the right players and it will clearly show that we are one of the worst 3 teams in the league. Our heavy financial reliance on being in the premier league will mean that relegation would be disastrous for us.

If we continue to sell our best players and fail to replace them at a fraction of the price, if we cannot find rough gems to polish and if the clubs around us spend their money wisely on quality then we will go down and the ramifications for this club will be huge.

I'm not saying we need to sell the club to anyone who shows an interest, but those that say that we are perfectly fine and everything is rosy with our current owners are deluded.

[Hughesy]

Whether the trust wants to sell or not, its obvious the criteria set by Jack must be pretty hard to meet - he was far from daft when it came to business!

As for punching above our weight - why? Are you telling me that the likes of Pompey, Hull, Burnley, Wolves, Bolton & West Ham have better teams than us?!?

[CAPT KAYOS]

Sounds like we are frucked in all honesty. Can't keep competing with no investment, its just a matter of time before we get relegated and do a Charlton, Southampton or a Forest. Very doubtful we will find an owner that meets the criteria that the trust and fans want.

Yep we are screwed.

Not necessarily true rvr - its not Rovers that are up the swanny really - its the game.

As BWD says earlier its the players that take a huge chunk out - ironic really in that people question the ethics and morales of people looking to 'take over/invest ' what ever tab it gets labelled with, yet are happy to see money splashed for players (mercenaries ) and for them to take wads with them.

If the game continues as it is - no matter what investment/money flows through the game there is only going to be a minimal clubs who get a pot share and can progress - the rest including some of the classified 'bigger clubs' will be treading water knowing full well they will soon drown as there will be continuous weights being added to the line tugging at there heels (debt) all in the quest of a perceived 'golden jug' thus leading to a reduced club participation (ie breakaway league).

As I have posted before - I don't want to be part of this scenario as a supporter /fan of Blackburn Rovers and don't want the club to be pulled into such a situation that it no longer becoames a battle of sport and tactics on the field if it is at present anyway.

There needs to be a serious look at the structure of the game by the powers that be at the so called less privelleged/fashionable clubs to break away from this immoral bleeding 'wealth factor' the game has become and get back on a more sustainable level - even if it means the 'so called' glamorous clubs go their own ways.

If Rovers are screwed - then so is every other club dreaming of the the 'pleasant land' outside of a small and limited number.

[OscarRaven]

I love this, selling the club to a fans trust who would HAVE to run it sustainably and ensure it could break even, is suicide! but selling to an investor (and thats what the story indicates - wants a return!) is a much better option.

Ever thought a fan run club at the top table of English football might actually be a powerfull force for change? Especially if that club were to be successful. There is a wind of change coming, the bubble has burst, clubs (like banks) will be run on a more sustainable basis in future. In this world we can compete a lot better than now.

We are well placed for the future, a good and grounded CEO and a dogged manager who will grind out results, with even the most mediocre of players.

A fans trust would be above an investor on my list but behind a benefactor.

[Hughesy]

We do not have enough fans, with enough money to make it work.

The likes of Barca can do it, but they have 90,000 home fans!!

[vintageadidas]

Wonder if Tony Cann would be interested?

[joey_big_nose]

I'm not saying we need to sell the club to anyone who shows an interest, but those that say that we are perfectly fine and everything is rosy with our current owners are deluded.

I would say that is a highly relative statement.

1) If there are a set of investers out there who can offer the same stability and quality of infrastructure as JW + the Walker Trust plus are willing to essentially throw money away in order for Rovers to succeed then I agree with you.

2) If there is not any one out there who fits into category 1) then I disagree.

I find it hard to make any real juudgment without that knowledge. I don't think anyone can. What I can say is that it seems extremely unlikely to me that there are people out there in catagory 1) as they would have bought the club by now. There has literally been nothing to stop them.

[Parasyte]

Is there any evidence of how much the JWT put in each year? People talk of investors needing to be Randy Lerner's, or Roman Abramovich's, but surely that would only apply if the JWT put in tens of £millions???

[ultrablue]

There's no shame in making a profit. The trouble comes when an idiot comes in who doesn't know how to...and you start making big losses.

Of course there's nothing wrong with making a profit; it's the main point of any business. It's how you make it that's the problem, and how you invest it when you've made it. If the aim is to get as much out of the club as soon as possible then that would not suggest working for footballing success but selling off either players or if that doesn't work land or whatever to make money and then where will we be?

[Amo]

It's ironic that with all the talk of punching above our weight, the last time we experienced relegation we had two managers pissing money up the wall. And if you look at most of our successful signings in recent years, they have all been bargain buys (Friedel, Neill, Tugay, Bentley, McCarthy, Santa Cruz etc). To say that relegation is 'inevitable' is slightly misleading, because although we don't have the financial muscle of our PL rivals, our astuteness in the transfer market has gone a long way. Now I'm well aware that our position is far from ideal and it's increasingly hard to pull this off year after year, but it certainly doesn't mean our demise is on the horizon.

[den]

It's ironic that with all the talk of punching above our weight, the last time we experienced relegation we had two managers pissing money up the wall. And if you look at most of our successful signings in recent years, they have all been bargain buys (Friedel, Neill, Tugay, Bentley, McCarthy, Santa Cruz etc). To say that relegation is 'inevitable' is slightly misleading, because although we don't have the financial muscle of our PL rivals, our astuteness in the transfer market has gone a long way. Now I'm well aware that our position is far from ideal and it's increasingly hard to pull this off year after year, but it certainly doesn't mean our demise is on the horizon.

No club can stay in the PL for any length of time without substantial investment Topman. If you believe we can, then I think you're kidding yourself.

The teams who spend most, win most. The teams who spend least, win least. There's a real correlation between expenditure and success.

[thenodrog]

I admit that I know nothing at all about legal matters, but some time ago now I was persudaded by a MB member on here to do a bit of research into how Trusts work and in particular Trusts made under Jersey Law (which is what Jack Walker did).

The results that I found were as you would expect very complex and (to me) virtually incomprehensible, but one thing I did learn was fairly clear, and that is that a Trust made under Jersey Law CAN NOT be changed or broken by any of the trustees. They are legally and duty bound to observe the tennants of the Trust, and if Jack did indeed stipulate that the club can only be sold to a new owner who is willing to meet ALL the criteria in the Trust Deed, then NOBODY can change that however much they may want to do so. Also under Jersey Law nobody except the Trustees and the Courts are allowed to know exactly what is in the Trust Deed. That is my understanding of a Trust made under Jersey Law. Can anyone confirm this or enlarge on it?

I'm sure that you've looked into this in depth Fife but personally I cannot see Fred Walker being left with no say in the matter. They are brothers and were business partners from day one I believe.

[thenodrog]

Without any real research into how they work and how it would run its abit rash to say that it wouldn’t work. My idea was slightly tongue in cheek to try and get fans to own ‘part’ of the club. Other options have to be considered because the likelihood we will find a buyer who has a proper interest in the club is minimal.

We'd have to extend the boardroom somewhat. MGM it would be an absolute disaster. We cannot agree about anything on here ffs!

And what happens if we all need to stump up with a few grand? Few could afford that and the rest would quickly seek to elbow them out.

Remember nothing works by commitee.

[Amo]

No club can stay in the PL for any length of time without substantial investment Topman. If you believe we can, then I think you're kidding yourself.

And yet we've almost managed ten years despite minimal spending, especially relative to the money we spent BEFORE we were relegated.

[American]

It really isn't.

Don't think it is a great option, but it isn't as bad as you seem to think. Plenty of clubs in the football league are owned by supporter's trusts (Brentford as one example). The only downside is that you have to live within your means while the clubs around you can go into all of the debt that they want - but isn't that already happening?

[den]

And yet we've almost managed ten years despite minimal spending, especially relative to the money we spent BEFORE we were relegated.

Minimal spending? I would be interested in the facts here Topman. Our wages bill until recently has been comparable to many PL teams outside the top four. Our drop from Europe to relegation fight has coincided with selling our better players and taking money out of the squad.

[FourLaneBlue]

I admit that I know nothing at all about legal matters, but some time ago now I was persudaded by a MB member on here to do a bit of research into how Trusts work and in particular Trusts made under Jersey Law (which is what Jack Walker did).

The results that I found were as you would expect very complex and (to me) virtually incomprehensible, but one thing I did learn was fairly clear, and that is that a Trust made under Jersey Law CAN NOT be changed or broken by any of the trustees. They are legally and duty bound to observe the tennants of the Trust, and if Jack did indeed stipulate that the club can only be sold to a new owner who is willing to meet ALL the criteria in the Trust Deed, then NOBODY can change that however much they may want to do so. Also under Jersey Law nobody except the Trustees and the Courts are allowed to know exactly what is in the Trust Deed. That is my understanding of a Trust made under Jersey Law. Can anyone confirm this or enlarge on it?

It is coming up to 10 years since Jack's death. It seems to make sense that some of the stipulations may have a time limit on them. Perhaps 10 years after his death it will become easier for the Trust to sell.

We all know Jack's desire that Rovers should be self-sustaining one day but we also knew it would not come about overnight.

[FourLaneBlue]

I wonder if there was a clause that after 10 years the club could go for pittance and that is why they are desperately looking for a new owner ?

Didn't see this before but the timing is somewhat spooky isn't it? Price slashed and desperate to sell?