[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[philipl]

Would you like to expand a little on that Philip? It could equally well be taken to mean that they are unlikely to provide any significant transfer funds after completing the takeover; or alternatively that they will not be buying the club at all. Which did you mean?

I don't have any direct info from inside the NDA but I am pulling a few straws together and concluding:

- there is no momentum from last week's "breakthrough"

- for there to be a second premature announcement of due diligence flatly contradicted by the club means there is not only no due diligence but none in immediate prospect otherwise the club would have remained silent.

- more to the point, this lot SEEM to NEED to tell the Asian public they have the Rovers deal nearly wrapped up which to me suggests they haven't got their funding and backers sorted

- and questions have been raised about who is in the consortium and they have not used their indiscretions to clarify that most fundamental point

- Chris Nathaniel's involvement only makes sense if he went to India with a view to setting up a football league and stumbled across some bloke mumbling about having £25m to buy an EPL team

- and there are just too many whispers now that the Indians don't have anywhere near the amount of money needed to pursue this venture with real intent.

[The Rover of Finland]

No point with all this if they don´t have £10M on players right away and more money when needed. No sence to buy players just because there is money. West Ham and Nigel Quashie is the greatest example. We need atleast one very good striker and that costs easily £10M. Big Sam has done good job and we could still rely on young lads. It would be nice to build a team not buy some average players when there is money. I don´t think the Indias have money.

[Amo]

We need atleast one very good striker and that costs easily £10M.

I don't remember Santa Cruz or Benni McCarthy costing that much.

[The Rover of Finland]

I don't remember Santa Cruz or Benni McCarthy costing that much.

Ok, that´s correct. But another has played only one good season on his career.

[Fife Rover]

I don't have any direct info from inside the NDA but I am pulling a few straws together and concluding:

- there is no momentum from last week's "breakthrough"

- for there to be a second premature announcement of due diligence flatly contradicted by the club means there is not only no due diligence but none in immediate prospect otherwise the club would have remained silent.

- more to the point, this lot SEEM to NEED to tell the Asian public they have the Rovers deal nearly wrapped up which to me suggests they haven't got their funding and backers sorted

- and questions have been raised about who is in the consortium and they have not used their indiscretions to clarify that most fundamental point

- Chris Nathaniel's involvement only makes sense if he went to India with a view to setting up a football league and stumbled across some bloke mumbling about having £25m to buy an EPL team

- and there are just too many whispers now that the Indians don't have anywhere near the amount of money needed to pursue this venture with real intent.

Oh dear! I don't know whether to laugh or cry Phillip. I don't doubt any of what you are saying as I know you are usually a pretty shrewd judge in these sort of things. However I must say that I am more than a little surprised that if what you are saying above is correct, I find it very hard to see why this whole thing has managed to get so far without Rovers or their advisors finding out that the Indian consortium does not have the necessary funds to see this through to completion and also to satisfy the obvious need (from everybodies point of view) to keep Rovers going as a viable PL club.

It is essential that Rovers maintain their current position as a top-half PL club (and hopefully better it) to meet the stated aims of the Indian buyers and become an attraction to the IPL followers and to create the interest from the hoped for mass audiance in India and also for the Lancashire Asian community. There is absolutely no way that this is going to happen unless the Indian buyers and their backers are prepared to invest in the Rovers on the playing side, and I cannot believe that the Indians are not fully aware of this.

So given all the above as read, I cannot see how the various talks and exchanges of information that must by now have reached a fairly advanced stage, have not caused either side to bring things to a halt and walk away before now. Therefore I can only assume that the takeover still proceeding can only mean that both sides are satisfied so far that this a viable proposition from both sides perspective.

[phili]

I think it is quite a good move by the club to be honest. With all of the media and supporters interest in Shah and trying to find out more about him and if he has the money, it allows the club to have the chance to conduct negotiations with other parties in secret. Afteral the club has said that there is more than 1 party interested and no one has found out who yet.

[Florida Rover]

Along those same lines phili,will it shock anyone to wake up and find an annoucement on the offical site that Rovers have been sold to some one who has never been mentioned(one of those "lurking in the shadows" we have heard about) and that the Indian stuff has been a smokescreen all along.Base on that article written on the bleacher report which puts figures in black and white,it sends a shiver down your football spine to see how much of a knife edge Rovers live on.A take over is a must and lets hope it happens before this window is any further spoilt by the transfer inactivity.We need some new players.

[unclejack28]

I don't think this is true, firstly only last week JW said they had a backup transfer list etc, and there is no way the club would jeopardize the season by not signing anyone until now even though there are evident areas that need strengthening.(like niko has pointed out its NOT BUSINESS AS USUAL) Im not saying the deal will go through but I doubt that the club would wait so long to sign someone unless there was a chance of the deal progressing or they announce the deal is off. The bidders had interest in the club after the Arsenal game, only 2 weeks ago Shah apparently told Kamy he would do a live chat thing, therefore for 1 and a half months im sure the topic of how much money is involved came up. I think its more of the finer details like training ground shares etc that need finalizing im sure it wouldn't have gone on this long if the buyers didn't have the money.

[bluebruce]

No point with all this if they don´t have £10M on players right away and more money when needed. No sence to buy players just because there is money. West Ham and Nigel Quashie is the greatest example. We need atleast one very good striker and that costs easily £10M. Big Sam has done good job and we could still rely on young lads. It would be nice to build a team not buy some average players when there is money. I don´t think the Indias have money.

:rock: Are you intentionally having a conversation with yourself there? It looks like pretty much every sentence is contradicting the preceding one!!!

[Doaksie]

I don't think this is true, firstly only last week JW said they had a backup transfer list etc, and there is no way the club would jeopardize the season by not signing anyone until now even though there are evident areas that need strengthening.(like niko has pointed out its NOT BUSINESS AS USUAL) Im not saying the deal will go through but I doubt that the club would wait so long to sign someone unless there was a chance of the deal progressing or they announce the deal is off. The bidders had interest in the club after the Arsenal game, only 2 weeks ago Shah apparently told Kamy he would do a live chat thing, therefore for 1 and a half months im sure the topic of how much money is involved came up. I think its more of the finer details like training ground shares etc that need finalizing im sure it wouldn't have gone on this long if the buyers didn't have the money.

A valid point. There has to be have been at least some level of progress to even consider drawing up a list of possible signings. I would imagine we'll hold off on signing anyone to give as much chance as possible for the deal to go through before the window closes. That being said, I'm pretty sure no deal will be concluded before the window closes and we'll settle for a lesser player in the end (someone in the £2-3m bracket).

[RevidgeBlue]

I don't think this is true, firstly only last week JW said they had a backup transfer list etc, and there is no way the club would jeopardize the season by not signing anyone until now even though there are evident areas that need strengthening.(like niko has pointed out its NOT BUSINESS AS USUAL) Im not saying the deal will go through but I doubt that the club would wait so long to sign someone unless there was a chance of the deal progressing or they announce the deal is off. The bidders had interest in the club after the Arsenal game, only 2 weeks ago Shah apparently told Kamy he would do a live chat thing, therefore for 1 and a half months im sure the topic of how much money is involved came up. I think its more of the finer details like training ground shares etc that need finalizing im sure it wouldn't have gone on this long if the buyers didn't have the money.

I fear you are deluding yourself.

Take away all the recent hype in the media and the reality is we're no further down the line than we were with Dan Williams. Or anyone else for that matter.

[unclejack28]

I fear you are deluding yourself.

Take away all the recent hype in the media and the reality is we're no further down the line than we were with Dan Williams. Or anyone else for that matter.

Forget the media Hype the FACTS are

1.They were there at the Arsenal Game - 3rd May

2.Saurin Shah spoke to the LT with "Serious about takeover" - 12th June

3. NO official word negative or positive about the takeover from Shah or rovers till now - July 22nd

Thats almost 4 months in that 4 months all the facts we can see is that we know rovers have an alternative transfer list. all the rest i agree is media hype but 2 parties talking about a sale for 4 months and one party doesn't have the money or doesn't know the asking price I don't buy.

[nicko]

Forget the media Hype the FACTS are

1.They were there at the Arsenal Game - 3rd May

2.Saurin Shah spoke to the LT with "Serious about takeover" - 12th June

3. NO official word negative or positive about the takeover from Shah or rovers till now - July 22nd

Thats almost 4 months in that 4 months all the facts we can see is that we know rovers have an alternative transfer list. all the rest i agree is media hype but 2 parties talking about a sale for 4 months and one party doesn't have the money or doesn't know the asking price I don't buy.

I think the process and interest has been going on even longer.

That tells me two things:

1 - there is a disagreement on valuation, tied in with a question of what funds the buyers have available to [a] buy the club and run it.

2 - Rovers and their owners desperately want there to be a deal. If not they would have rubbished them. And if this fails it's Plan B in the transfer market and the downward spiral that might risk, plus the questions about exactly how well the Trustees support their club.

I have to say some of the negative stuff about this Indian move puzzles me. WHY are some people dead against it when they do not have the facts?

[unclejack28]

I think the process and interest has been going on even longer.

That tells me two things:

1 - there is a disagreement on valuation, tied in with a question of what funds the buyers have available to [a] buy the club and run it.

2 - Rovers and their owners desperately want there to be a deal. If not they would have rubbished them. And if this fails it's Plan B in the transfer market and the downward spiral that might risk, plus the questions about exactly how well the Trustees support their club.

I have to say some of the negative stuff about this Indian move puzzles me. WHY are some people dead against it when they do not have the facts?

Nicko, If the interest and talks have been going on even before the 3rd of May, do you actually think the question of what funds the buyers have available, to buy and run the club would come up now? on the 12th of July Niranjan Shah was quoted as saying "it is serious interest but we know we will have to work very hard to make it happen and Saurin and his group have been doing that for a while now". and also "I don’t want to go into the details but we know it would cost to buy the club and we would hope to strengthen the squad a lot if it was to happen.

"We do have money for the club." I mean 1 and a half months after that if they still cant show they have the money either Rothschilds are deluded or The club is taking a very very big risk by not rubbishing the reports.

I being Indian hope the deal goes through because I know it will be very popular in India and probably a success with whatever they are planning on doing with the IPL, but that being said I feel if there is no Answer one way or another soon, there could be severe consequences for our club!

[RevidgeBlue]

I suppose it depends how you look at it.

I fail to see how you can take that seriously any bid that has failed to put forward a concrete enough proposal to persuade the Trustees to allow access to the books. Once that point is reached, I agree we can all start to get excited.

If talks have in fact been going on for 4 months or more without any agreement on price, that would tend to suggest to me that the Indian group don't have the required funding to strike a deal and that the longer it goes on the less likely it is agreement will be reached with that particular group.

[bluebruce]

I have to say some of the negative stuff about this Indian move puzzles me. WHY are some people dead against it when they do not have the facts?

Because the chances of him being a philanthropist (the ONLY buyer we need) are very remote.

[Fife Rover]

I suppose it depends how you look at it.

I fail to see how you can take that seriously any bid that has failed to put forward a concrete enough proposal to persuade the Trustees to allow access to the books. Once that point is reached, I agree we can all start to get excited.

If talks have in fact been going on for 4 months or more without any agreement on price, that would tend to suggest to me that the Indian group don't have the required funding to strike a deal and that the longer it goes on the less likely it is agreement will be reached with that particular group.

I take your point Rev and that is where I started my argument in my last post (above). BUT!! I just CANNOT see that either Rovers Trustees or Rothschilds would have allowed this thing to drag on for around 4 months unless they were already convinced that the people they were talking to were serious AND had the money to complete the deal. The only area of concern for me is the ongoing need for any new owner to support the club with adequate funds for players, wages, and all the other obvious expenses in running a SUCCESSFUL PL club.

I am not a business man myself, but even I can appreciate that NO business man is EVER going to take on a venture like this one without a clear and viable plan as to where he is going, and what he will get out of it. The Shah group have stated publicly that their aim is to open up the Indian market by creating a tie-up with the IPL and an English PL club (Rovers). They MUST therefore know that if that is to succeed they must also keep the football club (Rovers) successful on the pitch. If they don't do that then the whole plan is doomed from the start, and my point is that after4 months of talking both sides must by now be convinced that there is a plan and a workable one.......otherwise why carry on this long?

[Iceman]

i have to agree with those saying, that if the indians dont have the money, then END the discussions. Surely, if its taken this long, then the 1st question should have been 'do you have money to buy the club' and 'do you have money for new players' if they answer yes to both,then great and if they answer no to either,then go away. Im sure it doesnt work like that, and that Rotschilds would have done background checks on how much money they have.

i have to agree with those saying, that if the indians dont have the money, then END the discussions. Surely, if its taken this long, then the 1st question should have been 'do you have money to buy the club' and 'do you have money for new players' if they answer yes to both,then great and if they answer no to either,then go away. Im sure it doesnt work like that, and that Rotschilds would have done background checks on how much money they have.

[Mc Love]

i have to agree with those saying, that if the indians dont have the money, then END the discussions. Surely, if its taken this long, then the 1st question should have been 'do you have money to buy the club' and 'do you have money for new players' if they answer yes to both,then great and if they answer no to either,then go away. Im sure it doesnt work like that, and that Rotschilds would have done background checks on how much money they have.

i have to agree with those saying, that if the indians dont have the money, then END the discussions. Surely, if its taken this long, then the 1st question should have been 'do you have money to buy the club' and 'do you have money for new players' if they answer yes to both,then great and if they answer no to either,then go away. Im sure it doesnt work like that, and that Rotschilds would have done background checks on how much money they have.

So good you said it twice

[Brfcrule1]

welcome back Nicko just a couple of points I need clarifying:

1 - there is a disagreement on valuation, tied in with a question of what funds the buyers have available to [a] buy the club and run it.

Is that something to do with a comment last night on the Huddersfield LET commentary if they pay 45M for the club they will not have enough dough for transfers

2 - Rovers and their owners desperately want there to be a deal. If not they would have rubbished them. And if this fails it's Plan B in the transfer market and the downward spiral that might risk, plus the questions about exactly how well the Trustees support their club.

This tells me they want to offload the club as quickly as possible & will no longer support the club & you talk of Plan B in the transfer market does that mean Benjani will shoot to the top of the list? You talk about a downward spiral the way this is put suggests to me the members within feel if this deal does not come off there is a very real possibility we could get relegated is this the case or am I reading to much into this?. Finally you talk about questions about how the trust are running the club is there opinion within the board that suggests they should plough more money into Rovers?. How does one of the trustees on the board at the club feel about this?

you also say:I have to say some of the negative stuff about this Indian move puzzles me. WHY are some people dead against it when they do not have the facts? I have never been against it as I am of Indian origin. I think it would be a good idea to grow the brand abroad and India there is lots of potential.

Nicko as the club have let this matter go on for this long in your opinion do you think this will go through or fail?. As many have said would the club have been talking for over 4 months if they didn't think they could take the club forward?. Also in your opinion if this deal deal does fall through what do you think the chances are of the unthinkable happening?. Nicko I know a bit off topic obviously if we do come into some new money and this does go through it has been said an alternative list of targets has been drawn up do you have any clues/tips as to who is on that list?. I know it is a pipedream but would love to see Messi here although I know will never happen!

Thanks as ever for your valuable input!

p.s. this Shah chappie is this the same person who has recently registered on this board?.

[philipl]

JW's simple statement that there is no due diligence is as close to "rubbishing" as you will get in public.

[Majiball]

Philipl, you are clued up on all these sort of financial things. Given the abject silence and no signs of progress to you think its going to die a death as all the others???

[nicko]

Thought for the day.

If the local paper claim there is other takeover interest why do they not name them? You would if you had that information.

Or is that information from the club and this is an attempt to push up the buying price?

[ada2020]

Thought for the day.

If the local paper claim there is other takeover interest why do they not name them? You would if you had that information.

Or is that information from the club and this is an attempt to push up the buying price?

Heard something Nicko?

[nicko]

Heard something Nicko?

I know there is a rumour going round about a second bidder.

Just wondering who starts these things off...and why?