[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Secondly - as has already been said - this is negated by the new 50% tax bracket.

Hardly. Was it not reported the other day that AEK Athens, who just beat us and have regular European games, have a salary bill one quarter the size of ours.

[tony gale's mic]

Hardly. Was it not reported the other day that AEK Athens, who just beat us and have regular European games, have a salary bill one quarter the size of ours.

That proves absolutely nothing. AEK's low wage bill stands to reason since no one wants to watch the Greek League on television, they don't usually qualify for the group stage of the Champions' League and their domestic competitors aren't shelling out vast amounts on wages so they don't need to either.

However, I was comparing us with sides of our standing in Italy, Spain and to a lesser extent Germany.

[bluebruce]

You might think there's a point Bluebruce, but it isn't going to happen. Why would anyone want a structure where we have owners who do nothing and don't want to be there - and a board who run the football club?

I'm not sure you got what my point was. I don't care whether the owners want to be there, the board run things and have kept a club with relatively small turnover in the big time. What matters is financial implications. As long as they're not taking money out of the club, or forcing investment that is blatantly beyond our means without using their own money to do it, yes, I want them compared with somebody who will do those things. The moment we can get an owner who will put in their own money with no strings attached, yes, of course I will prefer that owner. I massively doubt we are going to find them.

So realistically, we all need to think about what kind of owner we prefer, because it seems we only have two real choices (although obviously the choice isn't really ours, but we're entitled to an opinion):

1) Status quo. The Trust remain. We don't spend money we don't have, but apparently we don't lose money we do have to our owners (I say apparently because I do have my doubts). We probably don't really progress beyond where we are, and risk eventual relegation if we get it wrong some day.

2) Unknown quantity. A buyer, who wants to somehow make money off our club. Most likely will force us to loan large amounts of money so that we can compete and give them a return on their investment. We get to challenge for the lofty heights of 5th-8th place, in return for the high risk of administration (which inevitably means relegation anyway, with a guaranteed wholesale demolition of our squad so that promotion becomes harder) or even liquidation. The alternative ways I can see they might make money is by tightening the purse strings even more and creaming off the top, or selling assets and creaming off the top. Or possibly hoping to work like a hedge fund and sell for more money when/if we hit 5-8th or the gravy train speeds up (didn't work for Mike Ashley), which just gives us another unknown quantity, and if it fails like Ashley's attempt did, we'll have an owner even less happy to be in possession of us than the trustees.

We would feel the force of any debt burdens more than most clubs. We have the lowest budget of any club in the league, and a debt supposedly around £20 million, despite frugal spending and numerous big-money player sales in the last couple of years. Despite finishing higher than we budgeted (luckily) and earning £7 million more than last season from TV revenue as a result. Despite interest-free loans from our owners. Despite a new influx of TV money this summer of about £10 million a year if I recall.

What do you think is going to happen if someone comes in and starts using interest-based loans to bring in new "stars" on bigger wages, to compete for that small pot of cash that comes from finishing 5-8th instead of 10th? We used to finish around there, and it hardly turned us into financial giants. IF we finish there, not forgetting that the clubs in that zone will probably still have more financial muscle. Granted, a new owner might not overstretch, and pretty much tread water...but if so, what is the point of the whole exercise?

So, we've all got a "choice". And those are the two options, as I see them. Personally, as frustrating as our financial plight is and as much as I want us to have at least 5 million to spend on a star striker, I choose stability. I just don't feel it is worth risking the fact that there might not even be a BRFC for me to support in ten years just so we can try to finish 5-8th a few times and have another couple of European jollies.

Whether the owners want to own us, in the context of all this? Couldn't give a hoot.

Edit- And before anyone asks, no I'm not happy with 1 or 2, but those are our choices, and I'm far happier with 1.

[unclejack28]

I dont completely agree with the above post. the way i see it is these are the current options

1. we continue as is with the trust not willing to invest money at the same time employing 3rd party companies to find buyers for us, granted it will keep us stable in the sense we wont go into administration etc, however it wont keep us stable on the pitch. yes we did finish 10th but when teams around us strengthen their squad and we don't we WILL have problems in a few years if not this, and then what Sam gets frustrated and leaves as did hughes, all our assets are any way sold and we will probably never ever return to an established premier league club. I feel the trust want to get rid of us only for this reason, because they do care about the club and know if they don't invest we will end up in this situation and that's not what anyone wants.

2. We are taken over, discussions and talks have been going on for a long time, there are reasons for this that being that the trust want to sell us to the "right person" therefore they want to protect the club LONG term and ensure to the best of their ability that we do not end up like a Pompy or Newcastle. I feel even if we do get taken over I doubt there will be large investments made like city but more controlled, allowing us the freedom to sign a 5 million player every yr at the same time keeping the debt levels manageable

[BuckyRover]

I don't usually comment in here but I thought I would mention that this thread makes me feel totally depressed.

Everytime I click on it I know I will feel more depressed than the last time.

The life of a Rover

[bluebruce]

I dont completely agree with the above post. the way i see it is these are the current options

1. we continue as is with the trust not willing to invest money at the same time employing 3rd party companies to find buyers for us, granted it will keep us stable in the sense we wont go into administration etc, however it wont keep us stable on the pitch. yes we did finish 10th but when teams around us strengthen their squad and we don't we WILL have problems in a few years if not this, and then what Sam gets frustrated and leaves as did hughes, all our assets are any way sold and we will probably never ever return to an established premier league club. I feel the trust want to get rid of us only for this reason, because they do care about the club and know if they don't invest we will end up in this situation and that's not what anyone wants.

2. We are taken over, discussions and talks have been going on for a long time, there are reasons for this that being that the trust want to sell us to the "right person" therefore they want to protect the club LONG term and ensure to the best of their ability that we do not end up like a Pompy or Newcastle. I feel even if we do get taken over I doubt there will be large investments made like city but more controlled, allowing us the freedom to sign a 5 million player every yr at the same time keeping the debt levels manageable

Unclejack28. Concerning 1, yes, there are risks to keeping Trust ownership too, I never pretended otherwise. I won't deny that we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. But IMO we're more damned if we do sell. So as I say, there are risks- but the current ownership have shown they are willing to let JW and the board handle things, and they've kept us stable for a while now. This strategy isn't guaranteed to keep working, but if we execute it intelligently, it is achievable. But if we invest beyond our means in the short-term, there is no, I repeat NO way we can continue in the long-term, perhaps even in the mid-term. We just can't afford it.

Concerning 2. Ask Rick Parry about selling to the right person. He did his best to do this too, even when offered more for Liverpool by other buyers I believe? Then Gilette and Hicks saddled them with insurmountable debt. A buyer can say what they like, then they can equally do what they like.

Consider this. It's all well and good saying we need investment, as people in this thread repeatedly parrot. But the FORM of investment is absolutely critical. Unless we get investments that are basically free money, then any "investment" is either on the back of the club or with strings attached expecting repayment with interest. WE CAN ALREADY DO THIS UNDER THE TRUST! The fact we don't is testament to the fact it is a bad idea, because it is beyond our means. You talked about the freedom to sign just a 5 million player a year. Unless that came from free money, it is something we could just do now anyway.

If the debt levels would be manageable with this kind of expenditure, as you clearly think they would be, we would be doing it now!

Bucky- sorry if this is depressing, I'm far from happy about it either, and I'm no pessimist. Just looking at things realistically and advocating the lesser of two evils, unless things change and we get this free money which so few clubs receive.

[Kelbo]

Hardly. Was it not reported the other day that AEK Athens, who just beat us and have regular European games, have a salary bill one quarter the size of ours.

So do some of the Irish and welsh teams!!!

Whilst I get your point, Shamrock Rovers and the like will havew extremely low salary bills!

[67splitscreen]

Hardly. Was it not reported the other day that AEK Athens, who just beat us and have regular European games, have a salary bill one quarter the size of ours.

If I remember correctly during the match, 24m was mentioned.

[Craigman]

Keeping on topic, is there any more news on the takeover ?

[Stuart]

Why did Abramovic by Chelsea?

[Simon Says]

Why did Abramovic by Chelsea?

Because in the end he did not fancy Tottenham.

[Brfcrule1]

vintage adidas wrote: The Rovers / Indian thing took a step closer. Was mentioned in the other thread care to elaborate sir? that is like dangling a carrot in front of a monkey then taking it away at the last minute. Do I take it then things are moving forward?.

thanks.

[67splitscreen]

vintage adidas wrote: The Rovers / Indian thing took a step closer. Was mentioned in the other thread care to elaborate sir? that is like dangling a carrot in front of a monkey then taking it away at the last minute. Do I take it then things are moving forward?.

thanks.

Donkey/Ass

[MeanGreenMachine]

Monkeys arnt keen on carrots...

[broadsword]

When's the last time you saw a monkey eat a carrot?

[Blue n White Rover]

vintage adidas wrote: The Rovers / Indian thing took a step closer. Was mentioned in the other thread care to elaborate sir? that is like dangling a carrot in front of a monkey then taking it away at the last minute. Do I take it then things are moving forward?.

thanks.

You're better off asking Broken Picture Frame, he was in another meeting with S.Shah this evening. PM him.

[Alan75]

When's the last time you saw a monkey eat a carrot?

Last Tuesday, when I was sitting shotgun on a banana delivery in Burnley

[Brfcrule1]

Sorry I meant nuts don't know what I was thinking!. It seems as tho things are moving along. I had a thought the other day to prove the individuals have the required money to buy the club and move things forward don't they have to show a document from a bank or financial situation stating their worth?. Have they already done that?. Is that where the delay is?. If either Kamy,Nicko or vintage could let us know the process is moving along in the right direction that should keep people interested.

[Ewood and I Would]

When's the last time you saw a monkey eat a carrot?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090401095126AAmvMoE

[vintageadidas]

I was talking with KB at a funeral. I was told it will go through!

Sam has £3m to spend and not £2m. They are hoping to buy a striker that the other club allows us to stagger the payements over a longer time. As a result recent targets have passed by due to their current club not allowing the terms we can pay over.

We are skint, skint, skint!

[Bobby G]

KB?

[Craigman]

Ken Beamish ?

[ultrablue]

Ken Beamish?

Ah the Beamster

[Bobby G]

I dont think he would be too happy if what is being said here is true and he is being virtually quoted.

[Sparky Marky]

Sam has £3m to spend and not £2m.

That'll make a difference...