[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Now seems an odd time to make a concerted attempt to flog the club off. Particularly in the Middle East where Dubai just avoided a banking disaster.

[Iceman]

25mill, over priced for an established epl team? Would it not be better, to look for a buyer say in the USA? Or perhaps in China? Oh well, Dubai it is then. The problem is, that the trustees are desperate to sell by the looks of it, so we will just have to go with whoever wants to buy us. Where are the Blue Knights?

[Bobby G]

Its not OVER-PRICED at 25 million. Its peanuts for a PL club with manageable debts. With the right marketing and the right spending, things could potentially improve both on the pitch and off it.

However, its not a market where people would rush off to buy clubs anymore, especially after theyve seen what happened with Pompey, West Ham and whats happening at United, Liverpool, etc...

Nicko, any indication as to what JW's stand is on things?

[47er]

Its not OVER-PRICED at 25 million. Its peanuts for a PL club with manageable debts. With the right marketing and the right spending, things could potentially improve both on the pitch and off it.

However, its not a market where people would rush off to buy clubs anymore, especially after theyve seen what happened with Pompey, West Ham and whats happening at United, Liverpool, etc...

Nicko, any indication as to what JW's stand is on things?

Why do people keep going on about what JW thinks or whether new owners will keep him on? His view is totally irrelevant, if the Trust want to sell and a suitable owner is found, that's it. Anyone would think we can't survive without him.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Why do people keep going on about what JW thinks or whether new owners will keep him on? His view is totally irrelevant, if the Trust want to sell and a suitable owner is found, that's it. Anyone would think we can't survive without him.

I think people just like and trust the guy. If we were taken over it might be a worrying development, his presence would be reassuring.

[gumboots]

I think people just like and trust the guy. If we were taken over it might be a worrying development, his presence would be reassuring.

Exactly. Whilst he has been in charge we have, considering our low level of spending, generally remained steady. He did make a mistake with Ince but show me a chairman who hasn't ever made a mistake. We feel he's one of the more honest characters around and if he's on board I think the general feeling is that he does know how to run a club like ours and any owner will be told the truth and not pandered to. He is only an employee, but as far as most of us feel, he's a very important one who could make the changeover of owners easier than it might otherwise be.

[Gav]

So maybe it's over-priced at £25 million too.

When you look at Pompey being for sale at around £30 million with much bigger debts and relegation looming, it begs the question, why are we seen as such a poor investment?

I think clearly the potential to make money is something not possible at Ewood in the short term. Nicko mentioned previously that a long term plan is the only way forward and I tend to agree, but you’d need to be more of a fan to take that view on board.

I’d rather stay exactly as we are than see some money come in looking for a quick return. We must be one of the best run clubs in the country, pity we’re struggling to remain competitive, but at least we’re surviving, for now.

[Balwer]

I'm just curious as to what those of you who think the business is worth x are basing your opinions on. No offence theno but there is no valuation model in the world that is based on revenue, it's either a multiple of EBITDA (as in Man U case) or discounted cash flow or a comparable business sale. Doesn't matter if you generate a dollar for selling something if it costs you 1.01 to make it.

Also a company which has 20m debt and 25m equity is effectively valued at 45m, not 25m. So all of you saying our assets are worth more than 25m clearly haven't factored that in.

Asset value has nothing to do with this. It's about the revenue you can generate from those assets.

I wasn't going to jump in to this but I work in leveraged finance as an analyst and company valuation is a major part of what we do. Although my company is not invested in the deal I have had a lot of access to the Man U deal and seen the capital structure they employ.

Although we aren't run on the same model, and although I haven't seen Rovers balance sheets, my personal opinion is that, to generate a sale price of 45m (25m from buyer and 20m of debt) we would need an EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest Tax Depreciation Amortisation) of around 8m. From what I can ascertain we aren't close to that, as wages alone were close to 80% of revenue last year.

I think the reason the club has been paying down the debt is in anticipation of selling, because nobody is willing to take on such a highly leveraged company with uncertain revenue streams as it stands today.

Please note that a lot of my numbers are speculative, just giving my opinion as someone who works in the industry on why the company may not have been sold yet.

[den]

Why the complaints about our valuation being too low? The lower the price, the more money available for *team building. [*Avoided using the word "investment", because Theno would have objected].

[Hughesy]

We shouldnt be sold and the Jack Walker trust should pump some money into us for free - from Jacks bank, the way he would of wanted it!

About time his family stuck to his wishes and helped his boyhood club!

[Big Fat Sam]

Given his employers the trust seem to have in the main be decent sorts, you'd expect them to make it part of any deal (JW's presence). I don't see JW being hung out to dry and he'll surely be a big part of any plans a sensible new owner would have.

[47er]

When you look at Pompey being for sale at around £30 million with much bigger debts and relegation looming, it begs the question, why are we seen as such a poor investment?

I think clearly the potential to make money is something not possible at Ewood in the short term. Nicko mentioned previously that a long term plan is the only way forward and I tend to agree, but you’d need to be more of a fan to take that view on board.

I’d rather stay exactly as we are than see some money come in looking for a quick return. We must be one of the best run clubs in the country, pity we’re struggling to remain competitive, but at least we’re surviving, for now.

Yet another "I'd rather stay as we are". Why do people find it impossible to believe that we can't stay as we are because the owners are desperate to sever all ties with us?

[PAFELL]

When you look at Pompey being for sale at around £30 million with much bigger debts and relegation looming, it begs the question, why are we seen as such a poor investment?

I think clearly the potential to make money is something not possible at Ewood in the short term. Nicko mentioned previously that a long term plan is the only way forward and I tend to agree, but you’d need to be more of a fan to take that view on board.

I’d rather stay exactly as we are than see some money come in looking for a quick return. We must be one of the best run clubs in the country, pity we’re struggling to remain competitive, but at least we’re surviving, for now.

Would not success on the field - which of course needs investment in the playing squad - not generate money in itself. When Rovers won the title it was with players who were made into stars at Rovers. Those players didn't come to Rovers already stars. I suggest the same can be done again. We only have to look at the bargin buys Rovers have bought in recent seasons. Rovers have bought players cheaply and then been forced to sell them on for profit. New investment would take away the need to sell, therefore keep the squad intact.

Rovers do not need a new football ground, training facilities etc as they already have them. The debt is small compared to a lot of other clubs - this could be wiped off by regular higher finishes in the league and decent cup runs. The investment needed is for players, which in my view would bring the success and the income. Success would also increase attendences, because of glory hunting supporters. The riverside can be redeveloped to increase the attendence when that happens. Imo it is about buying the right players - not nessasary the mega priced / waged ones.

[PAFELL]

Over-priced at £45 million seems to have been proved by the fact that nobody bought it...and the group trying to sell it now want just £25 million.

And still haven't found a buyer.

So maybe it's over-priced at £25 million too.

Has there been any further developments / updates over the weekend?

[BPF]

We shouldnt be sold and the Jack Walker trust should pump some money into us for free - from Jacks bank, the way he would of wanted it!

About time his family stuck to his wishes and helped his boyhood club!

You can't speak for the dead Hughesy. I don't remember millions coming in again after 1995 to cement our place there...

"....When you've got Tim Sherwood"

[T4E]

You can't speak for the dead Hughesy. I don't remember millions coming in again after 1995 to cement our place there...

"....When you've got Tim Sherwood"

The biggest signings we made between 1996 and relegation 3 years later -

Dahlin £2.5m

Henchoz £3m

Pedersen £2.5m

Perez £3m

Davies £7.5m

Dailly £5.3m

Blake £4.25m

Gillespie £2.25m

Ward £4.5m

Jansen £4.1m

McAteer £4m

Carsley £3.4m

£46.3m over 3 seasons. JW never stopped backing us, we just appointed managers that didnt know a talented footballer from a fat lad from Chesterfield.

[Balwer]

The biggest signings we made between 1996 and relegation 3 years later -

Dahlin £2.5m

Henchoz £3m

Pedersen £2.5m

Perez £3m

Davies £7.5m

Dailly £5.3m

Blake £4.25m

Gillespie £2.25m

Ward £4.5m

Jansen £4.1m

McAteer £4m

Carsley £3.4m

£46.3m over 3 seasons. JW never stopped backing us, we just appointed managers that didnt know a talented footballer from a fat lad from Chesterfield.

It makes me cringe to see those numbers and think what any of the post-JW managers could have done with that money, not even factoring in inflation.

EDIT: Pedersen joined in the summer of 04 I believe, unless it's a different guy?

[The Gull]

It makes me cringe to see those numbers and think what any of the post-JW managers could have done with that money, not even factoring in inflation.

EDIT: Pedersen joined in the summer of 04 I believe, unless it's a different guy?

That would be the legend that is Per Pedersen, how could you forget, I've tried without success.

[Balwer]

That would be the legend that is Per Pedersen, how could you forget, I've tried without success.

Oh god. I just remembered. Why did I have to ask?

[BPF]

The biggest signings we made between 1996 and relegation 3 years later -

Dahlin £2.5m

Henchoz £3m

Pedersen £2.5m

Perez £3m

Davies £7.5m

Dailly £5.3m

Blake £4.25m

Gillespie £2.25m

Ward £4.5m

Jansen £4.1m

McAteer £4m

Carsley £3.4m

£46.3m over 3 seasons. JW never stopped backing us, we just appointed managers that didnt know a talented footballer from a fat lad from Chesterfield.

It's crazy to think that the transfers of Shearer and Le Saux alone paid for nearly half of that. Not forgetting £10 million for Sutton.

I'm not suggesting that Jack stopped backing us. I'm just saying that the presumption that he would be pouring millions and millions in is based in nostalgia. The fact is ten years ago neither Jack or any of us could have dreamed how football would become what it is today.

[OscarRaven]

You can't speak for the dead Hughesy. I don't remember millions coming in again after 1995 to cement our place there...

"....When you've got Tim Sherwood"

He can and he will... the club, the dead, God.

I seem to remember something about a desire by Jack for the club to able to stand on its own too feet not be forever 'cap in hand'.

The Pedersen is not Gamst.

[T4E]

It's crazy to think that the transfers of Shearer and Le Saux alone paid for nearly half of that.

Add Sutton and it paid for the majority.

[AJW]

All we need is to find a rovers mad steel magnate with a few hundred million to spend on his local side....i mean....how hard can it be

[JAL]

Over-priced at £45 million seems to have been proved by the fact that nobody bought it...and the group trying to sell it now want just £25 million.

And still haven't found a buyer.

So maybe it's over-priced at £25 million too.

With the tone of this post nicko, its seems to suggest that the people who had been contacted looks less likely now to be interested in Rovers.

[OJRovers]

Does anyone think that Jack would have left some clause in the Trust’s mandate that stipulates how much they can take out if the club is ever sold on?

From all accounts Jack never put money in the club to make a profit and would never have sold the club expecting to get anything out of it.

Is it possible the Trust would effectively release the equity for a nominal amount under the condition that the new owner put the equivalent of a market value price into the club to pay off debts or buy players?