[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[thenodrog]

A "dingle" - a fan of Burnley we know but please explain. Over in the US a dingle is a piece of ###### that sticks to your ass hairs.

I much prefer your definition to ours. I vote we should adopt it.

btw I bet Philipl feels like a US version of 'dingle' too at the minute.

btw 2 Come on roversider stop joshing now. It's been a hoot but lets be knowing ............ Which are you Vinjay or Ranuff?

[thenodrog]

If you follow Phillip's logic that Plainfield were going to asset strip the club, yes, they would have had to sell Ewood, and I don't know how much Phillip thinks 25 acres in Blackburn with £5,000,000 of demolition and site work needed is worth.

Of course, it could just be that Phillip hasn't thought through his argument that seems to consist of the Yankee Shysters selling off the assets and ending up having paid £35mm but cunningly having made back £2-3mm on selling the stadium (and presumably now playing home games in front of 200 at Brockall - surely that has an impact on revenues Phillip, or were they selling Brockall too which a/ has no prospect of planning and b/ was ALONG WITH EWOOD, part of the club they agreed legally not to sell.

Still stumped how these Yankee shysters intended to make any money here, but it is apparently CLEAR that they intended to take money out of the club.

Never mind Ewood, we've realised something close to that amount in player sales alone since then remember.

[doctorryan]

A "dingle" - a fan of Burnley we know but please explain. Over in the US a dingle is a piece of ###### that sticks to your ass hairs. Maybe it is just that simple now I think of it.

Actually, that would be a dingleberry. Oh; and you, as well as everyone else from down South, including all those folks in occupied Atlanta, are Yankees.

We won.

You lost.

Get over it.

[philipl]

Am I reading the reply correctly?

Plainfield were going to make a generous gift of £20m to Rovers.

Plainfield were disinterested in making either a capital profit or any interest income out of their involvement with Rovers except through the price they would extract from Dan Williams who may or may not have been using the Rovers' capital and revenue streams to effect the buy-out from the financier.

"the offer was X, it was rejected, nothing more to it." Yet many weeks after "nothing more to it" Dan Williams was giving an in-depth interview to the press and all the Rovers buzz throughout that autumn was about a live bid which had been rejected well before the end of May.

And this weird website...

Please don't get me wrong, I will be absolutely delighted if Rovers pass to new owners who are capable of living up to whatever standards Jack Walker wished for. It is absolutely wonderful that your encounter with Rovers has turned you into great fans of the club and we are all on the same side.

[Ewood Spark]

I told Philip a while ago that the value of Ewood Park was what you could get for the scrap after demolition and that the land was worth two thirds of bugger all unlike Highbury but I was informed i had it very wrong

However, I know you say you are on here Rovercider because your gag has expired but I'm hoping that there's more to it. I hope you're paving the way for another Williams takeover bid. You'll deny it of course but I live in hope.

We have to move on and I'd sooner it was with a genuine fan.

btw 2 Come on roversider stop joshing now. It's been a hoot but lets be knowing ............ Which are you Vinjay or Ranuff?

Come on guys ... the least you can do is get Rivercider's name right!

[Hughesy]

May 1st, Arsenal game, there's a small group of ex-Plainfielders coming with, sort of a re-union of what would have been our most fun investment had it happened.

Now make sure they & Big Ginger Wiliiams bring their cheque books with them

Im sure you can put a few irons in the fire and get them interested again.... Thanks very much for your info - greatly appreciated!

[broadsword]

Big Ginger Wiliiams

Flattery like that will now doubt make him feel wanted by the fans!

[Tom]

If Vinjay read this thread I think he would possible explode

[rivercider]

Am I reading the reply correctly?

Plainfield were going to make a generous gift of £20m to Rovers.

Plainfield were disinterested in making either a capital profit or any interest income out of their involvement with Rovers except through the price they would extract from Dan Williams who may or may not have been using the Rovers' capital and revenue streams to effect the buy-out from the financier.

"the offer was X, it was rejected, nothing more to it." Yet many weeks after "nothing more to it" Dan Williams was giving an in-depth interview to the press and all the Rovers buzz throughout that autumn was about a live bid which had been rejected well before the end of May.

And this weird website...

Please don't get me wrong, I will be absolutely delighted if Rovers pass to new owners who are capable of living up to whatever standards Jack Walker wished for. It is absolutely wonderful that your encounter with Rovers has turned you into great fans of the club and we are all on the same side.

1/ No, they were going to invest money in to the club to maintain/develop the value of the club, that's how investments work.

2/ No, they fully planned to make a profit by increasing the value of the club, what a terrible idea.

3/ Link? One interview, done June 16th but why let the facts ruin a good vendetta.

4/ Which website? www.pfam.com?

5/ See if you knew what actually happened rather than what your "sources" told you (which sources? again, Plainfield? Club? Williams? Trustees? No? Linda Walker met and approved of the Plainfield/Williams group. The Trustees met and approved of them. The Board met and approved of them. They just could not agree on a price, a price that you (illogically) claim was too low in 2007 but is £10,000,000 higher than being asked today.

Your flimsy rumour based arguments don't really compare now do they in the face of actual facts from people actually involved in the events.

I am also curious as to what the alternatives proposed are. As pointed out, current owners are keen to sell, and have had the benefit of £27mm in net player sales in the past 2 1/2 seasons......

I fail to see your point. The club didn't approve of the Plainfield group? Nonsense. The Plainfield group were asset strippers? Surely your sources will confirm the offer included several provisions to prevent this HAPPILY AGREED TO at the time. So nonsense. I have read your speculation (incorrect at that) presented as fact (wrong) about the terms of Jack's will etc.

You really have no clue about events at the club, you really have no idea what happened in 2007, and you lack the access that Nixon had then and has now. The facts are out there now, silly speculative "what if" questions and sniping at who I don't know won't change that.

My sources - people I was in regular contact with at the time - include John Williams, David Brown, Tim Finn (BRFC), Williams himself, Max Holmes, Peter Cuneo and Justin Burley (buyers), and the entire Rothschilds team. I have recounted accurately events that occurred at the time. You have rehashed wild speculation posted by anonymous people on an internet forum.

Or prove me wrong. Give me a direct source to support any of your claims.

[doctorryan]

I have recounted accurately events that occurred at the time. You have rehashed wild speculation posted by anonymous people on an internet forum.

Or prove me wrong. Give me a direct source to support any of your claims.

I'm not defending philipl, but who the hell are you exactly? It's nice that Mr. Alan Nixon, professional reporter (see, we know who he is), has corroborated your account of events. But who are you? In other words: What is your name and your professional position? Be precise please. Otherwise you're just another anonymous person on an internet forum.

[rivercider]

Well, Rivercider, what a joy it's been to read your posts this evening. Somewhat depressing considering what could have been but, in the same breath, you have made me chuckle with your comments (an American with an "English" sense of humour.. priceless!).

But can we really believe everything you say is true when it's almost 11 o'clocker time and you're still posting despite the allure of, and promised departure for, those lovely business ladies in Bryant Park?! ;-)

HA, unfortunately I made the short walk home and settled in with a beer (American sadly) and BBC America (Graham Norton and Top Gear - love it).

Posted with permission - [email protected] - feel free to interact with the guy, he is eager to be open and hear the views and catch up with Rovers fans.

To give total clarity here - I am Isaac Cheung, formerly of Plainfield.

Yes, a chinky Yankee shyster Rovers fan defending a posh Oxbridge ginger (sticks and stones, none of us care about stereotype nicknames - certainly Big Ginger is fine for a 250lb man with red hair - just hope the FACTS are now clear.

Personally don't think you're going to get the guy interested again, but from the e-mail I just got, Nixon is already making the case, and he absolutely gave me the go-ahead to encourage engagement if anyone wants to either verify my posts and identity (can also be done with the club or with Rothschilds) and Williams is very happy to hear from anyone on this site for whatever reason - including you, Phillip.

[jprover4life]

Wow, i don't normally have the chance to post on here, currently being in my final year of uni deadlines looming, but what an interesting read!

Getting an insight like this into the real workings and makings behind any deal is fascinating.

Rivercider, thankyou for your time. Do you think it would be possible if i emailed Dan Willaims myself and ask him a few questions, possibly to help with my business degree!?!

Thankyou!

[rivercider]

Wow, i don't normally have the chance to post on here, currently being in my final year of uni deadlines looming, but what an interesting read!

Getting an insight like this into the real workings and makings behind any deal is fascinating.

Rivercider, thankyou for your time. Do you think it would be possible if i emailed Dan Willaims myself and ask him a few questions, possibly to help with my business degree!?!

Thankyou!

From: Dan Firth Williams [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:40 PM

To: Isaac Cheung

Subject: Re: On BRFCS.COM

Tell the lad to get in touch, more than happy to help with his degree best I can. Going to spend the afternoon in front of the TV tomorrow watching England vs France at rugby, so plenty of time to deal with any e-mails.

Enjoy the Top Gear, next time we talk ask me about the 24 hours of Lemons, we have two spots left for drivers!

DW

[waynerovers]

From: Dan Firth Williams [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:40 PM

To: Isaac Cheung

Subject: Re: On BRFCS.COM

Tell the lad to get in touch, more than happy to help with his degree best I can. Going to spend the afternoon in front of the TV tomorrow watching England vs France at rugby, so plenty of time to deal with any e-mails.

Enjoy the Top Gear, next time we talk ask me about the 24 hours of Lemons, we have two spots left for drivers!

DW

what a nice guy

[doctorryan]

Thank you Isaac. Accountability brings with it credibility.

[OJRovers]

I think from the last 5/6 pages we've established that DW is a good guy and the sort of person we want to be heading a takeover of the club

The reservation is what did the American funding company expect out of the deal? It didn't souns like a money-no-object deal like city/villa/chelsea, Rivercider - could you enlighten us on what the consortium's plans were? Surely as a VC business they were looking t oexit within 5/10 years with a profit?

[rivercider]

I think from the last 5/6 pages we've established that DW is a good guy and the sort of person we want to be heading a takeover of the club

The reservation is what did the American funding company expect out of the deal? It didn't souns like a money-no-object deal like city/villa/chelsea, Rivercider - could you enlighten us on what the consortium's plans were? Surely as a VC business they were looking t oexit within 5/10 years with a profit?

The plan was to slowly sell interest to Williams either for cash, or to sell shares to third parties over time, the long term plan being to recoup the 40mm we were putting in over 4 - 7 years and retain 20% or so of the club with the balance being held by Williams or other UK businessmen. There were no plans to replace John Williams or his team, and there was confidence that with those gentlemen in place, and with the funds being injected in to the club to allow for growth, that was a realistic goal. We were aware that Bentley was on his way out, but keeping the other players should have been realistic with the new ambition. Nicko himself got us all very excited about Riquelme but there was a clear understanding in place that Mr. Hughes was going to dictate player purchases and Mr. Williams (John) would be in charge of club affairs, working within the budget implemented by us. There were hopes that in the long term the investment in youth via the Rovers academy already in place plus the additional scouting resources in emerging football markets would put the club in a relatively stronger position.

Plainfield was, and is, a long term investor, with a 7 - 10 year horizon, with experts in the company who specialize in turn-arounds and value investing and at getting undervalued aspects of the business to realize profits - no clearer example of this than Marvel Comics, where Mr. Cuneo was the inspiration behind the idea of taking a comic printing business that was losing a lot of money and selling their brands (Captain America, Silver Surfer, X-Men) to Hollywood and turning the entire business around with the profits from the movies....he also turned around Remington before that. The "quiet American" as he was described by the Rovers brass, would have had a field day with the parts of the Rovers business that no-one has even tried to make profit out of.

One quick example from a rather drunk Yankee shyster.........do you have any idea how much Ford Motors (truck division) was willing to pay to be associated with Rovers for the slogan "Because there's something to be said about being there from the start.....centuries of tradition and still going strong". Founder membership of the F.A. has its merits from a marketing/branding standpoint. Anyone who thinks Rovers can only ever be a town club in Lancashire "punching above its weight" doesn't understand the allure that "football" and the Premiership has overseas, nor the appeal to us Americans of a club that can trace its roots back to before the days of Teddy Roosevelt. Just as a guide, that Ford deal alone would have paid the wages for 1/2 the first team - for all people might think Rovers are a physical team, when your brand's slogan is "Built Ford Tough" there are merits to a montage of "crunching" tackles by David Batty, Robbie Savage and Chris Samba bedecked in Red and/or White and Blue.....

Last comment before I pass out for the night - in 1994 we had a World Cup here that was attended by over 2,500,000 fans. More Americans play football in high school than any other sport. Not many Americans have ever heard of Rovers - want to know where the "growth" Rovers needed to make it interesting to an investment group came from, I hope this rather intoxicated post provides some potential answers. Could Rovers become a global brand? Who knows, but at least 14 people in the Plainfield office who couldn't have explained the offside rule in 2006 are now Rovers fans putting money in to the club every year. We never thought Rovers was a "small town" or a "small club" - and hopefully whoever buys the club in the future will realize that too. The very traditions that make the club special hold huge appeal in countries like mine where our sports clubs are generally under 50 years old - you can improve Rovers without changing it, indeed by keeping it the same you can make it better.

That's all.

Now enough politics and history........tomorrow it's about the very thing that makes Rovers so great, the under funded underdog from a town of 140,000 taking on the Russian (Mafia) funded giants from the land of overpriced designer coffees.........Up the Rovers.

Hope I haven't irritated anyone, Goodnight.

[Kei]

This is pretty amazing reading. It sounds too good to be true and I suppose in the end it was. If it got to the point where people were discussing marketing opportunities with companies like Ford, then surely a lot of groundwork had already been done. Or at least, a lot of thought had gone into it. If you are legitimate cider and you are not in fact Vinjay in disguise, then for the love of all things Rovers, tell that man Williams not to give up on a deal.

[Ricky]

Are you sure it's wise to post his email address on here? He will probably be swamped by emails today.

[Bobby G]

My emails been sent. But I am a bit depressed reading the "what could have been". Very very depressed.

[S15]

I'm not defending philipl, but who the hell are you exactly? It's nice that Mr. Alan Nixon, professional reporter (see, we know who he is), has corroborated your account of events. But who are you? In other words: What is your name and your professional position? Be precise please. Otherwise you're just another anonymous person on an internet forum.

Are you posting from the Wild West, or do you have no subtlety/ manners?

[imy9]

Wow what an insight, nice to see Williams still loves the club, hope he doesn't mind his inbox being full!

[American]

People make a sport of throwing waterproof boots, and your biggest worry is that someone video-taped it?!

I thought you Brits were nuts for that crazy cheese roll you do or for drinking beer at room temperature, but now I see another slice of evidence to confirm my view that Britain is, without doubt, the most eccentric, brilliant, lunatic, old fashioned and wonderful place to be. If you could only make a decent pizza, sort out your gas (petrol) prices and taxes and do something about the weather, the reverse migration from the US would swamp your entire nation!

They canceled the cheese roll this year (and I already had a room booked to go!!).

The A's analogy is a good one - as an A's fan I've been saying that we really need to go down the route of finding younger, cheaper players, as we seem to be looking to do in France now.

[Ricky]

Have they cancelled the cheese roll American, bad news as me and the other half were going to go as it's only about 30 miles away from us. Was looking forward to it.

[American]

Yeah, they announced it this week. There is some sort of a race carrying weighted sacks up a hill we're going to instead (with an accompanying town fair), as the rooms we booked are non-refundable. http://www.tetburywoolsack.co.uk/

Quite bummed - it was one of those stupid English traditions I wanted to see while I am over here.