[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[PAFELL]

im not sure which way this is heading, but Syed needs to come out and make some sort of statement. I know Julia Thiem has come out, but it would be best if he(Syed) would make a solid comment, if he has any hopes of saving himself from any sort of embarrasment

The term no smoke without fire could be used here. I am still waiting to to what develops before I make my mind up. If Bahrain needs clarification on Syed's business activities, then so should Rovers. But that I suppose is all part of the due dilligence stuff.

In my view at the moment the jury is still out and deliberating. If Syed has been operating outside of his remit in Bahrain, could he not do the same with a football club. Could he not change things after taking over the club for example. He may satisfiy the trustees during takeover conversations, but what is to stop him doing the opposite after the sale is completed? Calrification is required for all sides interests at the moment imo.

[47er]

You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment!

Well I'm gobsmacked! Several posts by others following up on my oxymoron comments have been removed! Surely in this context, jokingly referring to Gordon as an oxymoron and just a plain old moron was meant to be humorous and is quite inoffensive?

Yet the insults he's been hurling around at everyone lately were deemed OK. What a joke! Was Gordon even offended?

[Iceman]

T

what the hell is that suppose to mean Paf?

[Guest Kamy100]

While it is not a nail in the coffin, far from it but it does raise some concerns.

I am sure that Rovers will have known what has been going on all along. However, the problem for Syed will be the Premier League Fit and Proper Test, he is going to get a real grilling from them and is now going to have to work hard to convince them.

I think that it is important to remember that if the Trustees/Rothchilds are happy for this deal to proceed, and it appears that they are, then I for one trust their judgement.

One way or other by this time next week this takeover saga will be nearing completion.

[Iceman]

im going to guess, that Syed will be the new owner despite what has come out

[rovers_rob]

While it is not a nail in the coffin, far from it but it does raise some concerns.

I am sure that Rovers will have known what has been going on all along. However, the problem for Syed will be the Premier League Fit and Proper Test, he is going to get a real grilling from them and is now going to have to work hard to convince them.

I think that it is important to remember that if the Trustees/Rothchilds are happy for this deal to proceed, and it appears that they are, then I for one trust their judgement.

One way or other by this time next week this takeover saga will be nearing completion.

I disagree, I think it will be harder to convince the Trust and JW than it will the Premier League.

I think this is a key line from the LET article -

However, it is understood that the Premier League is confident that checks being made by Blackburn Rovers and chairman John Williams during the current due diligence period on potential buyers will exceed any that the authorities put in place.

I am glad that this is all coming out now and not after the club has been taken over.

[TimmyJimmy]

Come on, a bit of perspective and context here. Mr Syed is independently super rich, it's his money and not those of investors, 'family' members or behind the scenes nefarious characters. At the end of the day he can chose any investment vehicle including cash from his own back pocket. No one is seizing his cash and neither Bahrain nor anyone else is capable of telling him what to do or how to execute his private transactions. He seems to chose WGA or some sports offshoot right now but he could chose any other method that suits him.

He's being investigated, allegedly, to see if he's compliant with some restrictive trading conditions that's all. He's not being accused of human rights violations, drug dealing, slave trafficking or money laundering. This is just the everyday cut and trust of the world he moves in. He's not likely to p*ss 150 years of his families achievement and reputation up the wall by doing dodgy/illegal finance deals. It's not like he needs the money.

As others have said the only power to hold sway here will be the EPL 'test', they will decide that he is fit and proper or otherwise so to that extent they represent the only possible 'real' restriction on his wish to trade. Does anyone really know what the EPL test is, I don't, but instinct says that they will have to have very deep pockets to defend a case of restrictive trade practices brought by a legitimate business person based only on suspicion and innuendo.

So on balance what do you think the odds are of Mr Syed completing the purchase - if he still wishes to do so. I'm off to the bookies because my opinion is 100% we will have a new owner in the next few weeks. For what it's worth I'll welcome him with open arms unless and until someone proves he has something to be ashamed about.

[47er]

The term no smoke without fire could be used here. I am still waiting to to what develops before I make my mind up. If Bahrain needs clarification on Syed's business activities, then so should Rovers. But that I suppose is all part of the due dilligence stuff.

In my view at the moment the jury is still out and deliberating. If Syed has been operating outside of his remit in Bahrain, could he not do the same with a football club. Could he not change things after taking over the club for example. He may satisfiy the trustees during takeover conversations, but what is to stop him doing the opposite after the sale is completed? Calrification is required for all sides interests at the moment imo.

Not the first time that particular aphorism has been used in this thread. However I suspect the Walker Trust will accept the offer. None of us really understands how significant this problem is but I suspect it wouldn't be too hard to get into trouble doing business in Bahrain. A squeaky clean administration I'll bet it isn't.

Took me a few seconds to find this http://www.bahrainrights.org/en/node/3019

[Iceman]

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/owning-a-football-club.htm

Ownership of a Football Club

What are the requirements for owning a football club?

Football is the biggest sport in England in terms of fan base but also in terms of commercial value meaning that it is an extremely attractive business enterprise for many wealthy businessmen. The top flight of football in England – the FA Premier League – has attracted huge amounts of investment in recent years with much of this being from overseas. One of the major problems with the ownership of football clubs has been the lack of transparency in the ownership and deals that are made etc. As a consequence of this since 2004 a test has been introduced in English football which all owners and directors must pass.

This is called the fit and proper test.

Strict Requirements

Since the introduction of the fit and proper test it has ensured that the ownership requirements for football clubs in England are the strictest of any industry throughout the country. The tests are deemed to go beyond any requirement of company law.

This is due to the previous requirements being the same as they were for any other company in England and Wales, therefore being governed by UK company law.

Prior to 2004 there was no test at all in relation to the ownership of a football club. Since 2004, however, there have still been many problems in relation to the ownership rules as for example one Premier League football club has had a total of 4 owners during one season leading to financial difficulties and eventual administration.

The Fit and Proper Test

One of the initial problems with the application of a fit and proper test for English football is that due to different bodies existing in the running and organisation of English football has led to different test being applied across different leagues.

Structure of English Football

The structure of English football is as follows:

The Football Association Premier League governs the Barclays Premier League

The Football League governs the Coca Cola Championship, League One and League Two

The Football Association governs the Blue Square Premier League and the lower leagues

The FA Premier League, the Football League and the FA all have different versions of the fit and proper test due to the FA Premier League strengthening theirs while the others did not.

The Test

One aspect which applies across all the different above bodies is that the fit and proper test must be passed by all directors of a football club and any owners who own a share of 30% or more.

Elements of the Test

There may be slight differences in the tests adopted by the different governing bodies; however, all fit and proper tests include the following elements:

Individuals will be disqualified from acting as directors or becoming an owner if they:

Are prohibited by law from being a director

Are involved or have the power to be involved in another football club

Have unspent criminal convictions

Are bankrupt

Have incurred administration twice as a director of the same or different football clubs

Inconsistencies

What are the differences between the different tests?

The tests from the above bodies differ in relation to the following elements:

The types of criminal convictions

A ban by another sporting body

The application of the test

The timing of the test

The types of criminal convictions

The tests established by the FA Premier League and the Football League prevent individuals from becoming directors or owners if they have unspent criminal convictions which relate to crimes of dishonesty or for a crime which resulted in an unsuspended sentence of twelve months or more imprisonment.

On the other hand the test applied by the Football Association only prevents individuals from becoming directors or owners if they have unspent criminal convictions which relate to crimes of dishonesty.

As a consequence this means that individuals convicted of criminal acts such as murder or rape do not fall foul of the fit and proper test and can take over or become directors of football clubs. This is extremely problematic considering the fact that football clubs are deemed to represent the local community especially when concerned with the lower and amateur leagues represented by the Football Association.

Ban by another Sporting Body

If an individual has been banned by a Sports Governing Body from any sport in relation to the administration of sport they will be deemed to fall foul of the fit and proper test for both by the Football League and Football Association. This requirement, however, is not a requirement under the fit and proper test established by the FA Premier League.

As a consequence of this an individual who may have been given a life ban from involvement in another sport will still be able to take control of a Premier League club.

The application of the test

Since the fit and proper test has been brought into the Premier League and Football League in 2004 it has applied to all instances prior to its inception when dealing with matters of administration. For example if a potential owner or director has been a director of a club which has gone into administration twice then he fill fail the fit and proper test regardless if one or both of these instances of administration were before the test was introduced.

The Football Association rules however, do not apply to instances of administration which occurred prior to the 1 February 2005. Therefore if an individual has been involved in two instances of administration with one happening before 2005 he would be deemed fit and proper under the FA’s test but not for the Premier League or Football League.

The Timing of the Test

When the test takes place also varies according to which body is applying the test. For example under the FA Premier League fit and proper test the test will be conducted prior to a takeover of a club being approved whereas under the Football Association and Football League fit and proper test will be undertaken once the takeover has happened.

This is a major problem as if a new owner of a football club is deemed to have failed the fit and proper test following the takeover the club would be thrown into financial turmoil as a new owner would be required immediately.

Possible Reform

Many believe that due to the above inconsistencies and despite the test for football being the most stringent for any UK industry that the test should be reformed to make it even stricter. There is, however, feeling that if this were to be the case then the new test would face challenge under European Union Law.

The first step, however, may be for the different bodies governing the different leagues in England to align the tests thus reducing the inconsistencies.

Read more: http://www.inbrief.co.uk/owning-a-football-club.htm#ixzz0yMQr0FVD

[Gav]

I think that it is important to remember that if the Trustees/Rothchilds are happy for this deal to proceed, and it appears that they are, then I for one trust their judgement.

This is the real key to the deal, as Kamy says, if the Trustees are happy for this deal to proceed then thats fine by me.

[PAFELL]

what the hell is that suppose to mean Paf?

Hit the wrong key hence the later edit

[modes98]

im not sure which way this is heading, but Syed needs to come out and make some sort of statement.

Why should he? This doesn't affect the deal that is going through Due Dilligence and he has already said that he won't be talking to the press again until the deal is done, after the misquoting. Important to remember that his Bahrain company hasn't been closed, it is just under investigation.

Mr Syed has to satisfy the Trust that he has the funds to complete the deal, not the press nor even us as fans. If he does that to their satisfaction then I would rather he kept out the press at the moment and let the deal do the talking.

I am sure that Rovers will have known what has been going on all along. However, the problem for Syed will be the Premier League Fit and Proper Test, he is going to get a real grilling from them and is now going to have to work hard to convince them.

Well Mr Syed will have given the Trust full access to all his financials and the statuses of all his companies.

Although the fit and proper persons test has been strengthened surely the majority of the process still falls with clubs to accept responsibility for checking the background of prospective owners and this is where Rothchilds earn there money.

[T4E]

Well Mr Syed will have given the Trust full access to all his financials and the statuses of all his companies.

Really, will he? Has this been reported somewhere or is it an assumption? I'd be very surprised (and massively appeased) if this was true.

[Paul]

The term no smoke without fire could be used here. I am still waiting to to what develops before I make my mind up. If Bahrain needs clarification on Syed's business activities, then so should Rovers. But that I suppose is all part of the due dilligence stuff.

In my view at the moment the jury is still out and deliberating. If Syed has been operating outside of his remit in Bahrain, could he not do the same with a football club. Could he not change things after taking over the club for example. He may satisfiy the trustees during takeover conversations, but what is to stop him doing the opposite after the sale is completed? Calrification is required for all sides interests at the moment imo.

Really, will he? Has this been reported somewhere or is it an assumption? I'd be very surprised (and massively appeased) if this was true.

In my experience these sort of views are close to heresy.

One question I have from Julia Thiem's statement, quote:

"The Ministry has asked us not to carry out any investment activities or trading from our Bahrain entity while the clarification process is ongoing. But, as we are not carrying out any investment activities from Bahrain anyway, it is not affecting our operations at all." She said the firm was 'not trading but still operating'.

So what does this firm do - WGA Bahrain that is? I thought WGA, which I realise has at least two guises, was an investment company which specialised in turning round underperorming businesses / assets?

[Hughesy]

Think I read the other day that they have also set up a WGA sports company as a seperate entity too...so make that 3.

[ewoodpo]

As I said yesterday I have my doubts about this mob they're lying to us already,closed down a 3am statement stated NO business as usual it was also stated that staff were given leave for Ramadan.Some people really need to grow up on here the BBC are against us WHY? It's that small town mentality that some people have get out more trust me their Is more to see outside of Blackburn.What have the beeb got to gain by being against us.

We all have a lot of time for Alan Nixon he is keeping very quiet on the takeover matter as when he does people are jumping down his throat. Kamy really appreciate what you've been doing but this mob has been feeding you a load of bull all along.

People have faith in the Trust UTD fans had faith in the Edwards even when he was nearly conned by Michael Knighton. The Liverpool fans had faith in the Moores family look whats happening to those two big clubs . It's a fact of life when a person is trying to buy/sell anything they'll hide as many cracks as possible.

[47er]

As I said yesterday I have my doubts about this mob they're lying to us already,closed down a 3am statement stated NO business as usual it was also stated that staff were given leave for Ramadan.Some people really need to grow up on here the BBC are against us WHY? It's that small town mentality that some people have get out more trust me their Is more to see outside of Blackburn.What have the beeb got to gain by being against us.

We all have a lot of time for Alan Nixon he is keeping very quiet on the takeover matter as when he does people are jumping down his throat. Kamy really appreciate what you've been doing but this mob has been feeding you a load of bull all along.

People have faith in the Trust UTD fans had faith in the Edwards even when he was nearly conned by Michael Knighton. The Liverpool fans had faith in the Moores family look whats happening to those two big clubs . It's a fact of life when a person is trying to buy/sell anything they'll hide as many cracks as possible.

Well let's hope that your fears are well and truly unfounded. If they're not then as someone wrote earlier "in the Trust we trust". God help us.

[Guest Kamy100]

Kamy really appreciate what you've been doing but this mob has been feeding you a load of bull all along.

It is entirely feasible that they have been feeding me a load of bull all along, if that is the case then I have no qualms in accepting that. However they will have had to feed the same kinda bull to Rothchilds/Trust and back it up with evidence, the fact that they even got to due diligence stage means that they were able to fully evidence all of it.

[ewoodpo]

Well let's hope that your fears are well and truly unfounded. If they're not then as someone wrote earlier "in the Trust we trust". God help us.

So do I my friend amen .

[philipl]

I think it extremely unlikely the information passed to Kamy was materially incorrect.

There is no doubt that some of it was spun and the Bahraini Government official talking mid-investigation must have come as an unpleasant and unwelcome surprise to all parties involved.

My only hope is the British press do not turn this into a witch hunt.

[ewoodpo]

It is entirely feasible that they have been feeding me a load of bull all along, if that is the case then I have no qualms in accepting that. However they will have had to feed the same kinda bull to Rothchilds/Trust and back it up with evidence, the fact that they even got to due diligence stage means that they were able to fully evidence all of it.

What did Michael Knighton feed Martin Edwards he seemed convinced at the time. Rothchilds were happy with Shah did they do any checks on him before he announced himself to the world . Don't get me wrong I really do appreciate what you've been doing see if they'll talk to you now to get clarity of the situation.You seem to have contacts within the media see if the local Hydrabad press in India have anything to say about him. Local billionaire family I'm sure they'll know all about the Syed family.

[waggy]

what made me laugh was that it's hard to do anything whilst ramadams on,sorry i thought it was just food that was not allowed during the hours of lightness not work

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm a bit disappointed to see the LT seemingly doing an about turn and jumping on the BBC bandwagon this morning after previously not being able to write anything glowing enough about Mr. Syed.

IF he is intending to invest his own money in BRFC and IF he is worth the sort of money he says he is then I couldn't really give two hoots if he runs into slight difficulties within his other business interests as long as it doesn't impinge on his own personal liquidity and thus ability to finance the Club.

Surely if he wasn't worth the sort of money he claims, Rothschilds /the Trustees wouldn't have allowed him exclusive access to the books? If he isn't, and they have, heads should roll.

How much impact all this has as regards the latest Premier League test of course remains to be seen. This was presumably the intent of whoever leaked the revelations in the first place.

[John]

Rothchilds were involved in the appointment of Gillett and Hicks at Liverpool....

[ewoodpo]

I think it extremely unlikely the information passed to Kamy was materially incorrect.

There is no doubt that some of it was spun and the Bahraini Government official talking mid-investigation must have come as an unpleasant and unwelcome surprise to all parties involved.

My only hope is the British press do not turn this into a witch hunt.

They might be doing us a favour Philip, we are desperate to sell but not that desperate.