[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[sparkspakespoke]

Bit baffled by some of the Beckham views on here. He has been a fantastic player for club and country for the last ten years. Has played at the highest level for the best clubs in the world and been a key member of those teams. He has been highly rated by some of the best managers in the world.

He was also a fantastic captain for his county, a true ambassador and leader on and off the pitch. He is also likeable and by the look of it an honest family man. For me his career is beyond reproach and some of the criticisms on here seem petty and very misguided.

[S15]

If you're going to quote, do it accurately.

So what I've said wrongly insinuates what you wrote?

[T4E]

He was also a fantastic captain for his county, a true ambassador and leader on and off the pitch. He is also likeable and by the look of it an honest family man.

Not thats I blame him, but -

And yes, this was just an excuse to post a picture of her.

[trueblue]

Can we PLEASE get this thread back on topic.... Thankyou

[Exiled in Toronto]

Well I'll try to get back to the branding opportunity.

There's a common misperception shared by most people, and some on this thread, that branding is advertising and lots of it, which is not true, and that the opportunities from a branding strategy are directly proportional to the club's current size - again, not true.

There are many brands which have built themselves from very small bases while spending a fraction when compared to their much larger competitors e.g. Ben and Jerry's in their early days, Green & Blacks in chocolate, Craft beers and so on.

The opportunity which did not exist before is that, thanks to the ever-increasing popularity of overseas televising of the Premier League and the fact that we have been in it for a decade now, there is an AWARENESS of Blackburn Rovers that dwarfs anything we have had before. The opportunity lies in adding appeal to the awareness of the name by building some brand values that a proportion of those hundreds of millions who are aware of us would find appealing and be something they would want to associate themselves with.

Obviously, the majority of overseas fans want to associate with current success, but there are niche branding opportunities which we could exploit if the marketing of our club was not just a comfy seat for the Chairman's son.

To build a strong niche brand, you firstly need to really stand for something that is unique, which we currently do not. Clearly, the one thing we own that no-one else does, which Rivercider was alluding to, is the history and heritage of being the world's most successful town team, trophies in three centuries and so on.

The next task is then to make that message RELEVANT, so it's not just about history. What is it about Blackburn Rovers that has made it successful across three centuries; i.e. what are our core brand values? My own tuppenoth would be along the lines of epitomising Northern-ness. Grit, determination, inventive - we sprang from the loins of the inventors of the Industrial Revolution, tough, Southern softies watch out kind of thing. We could be a sort of cross between the Green Bay Packers and the Cleveland Brown's. Both NFL clubs that have distinctive brand personalities.

Then you need to craft and deliver that message in every way possible such that any one coming into contact with the Blackburn Rovers name gets that message. As someone else mentioned, when we don't even play EVERY game in a halved shirt of some kind, then one despairs because we are not always recognisable. Little things like we should ALWAYS play in short sleeves - no effing Chimbonda gloves in August - if toughness is a brand value we want to own.

And so on. Branding is a like an iceberg, 95% is thinking that has to be gone through and then applied to every aspect of how the club interfaces with the world so that the message is cohesive. Advertising, if there even is any, is the last few %. Big advertising budgets make marketers lazy anyway. Then the club have to nurture and exploit that appeal and turn it into a cashflow.

Personally, I'd be amazed if a bunch of Trustees in Jersey would be a) interested in any of this and capable of doing it. Hedge funds though look to do it with many of the old and tired consumer goods businesses they buy.

[CrazyIvan]

Well I'll try to get back to the branding opportunity.

There's a common misperception shared by most people, and some on this thread, that branding is advertising and lots of it, which is not true, and that the opportunities from a branding strategy are directly proportional to the club's current size - again, not true.

There are many brands which have built themselves from very small bases while spending a fraction when compared to their much larger competitors e.g. Ben and Jerry's in their early days, Green & Blacks in chocolate, Craft beers and so on.

The opportunity which did not exist before is that, thanks to the ever-increasing popularity of overseas televising of the Premier League and the fact that we have been in it for a decade now, there is an AWARENESS of Blackburn Rovers that dwarfs anything we have had before. The opportunity lies in adding appeal to the awareness of the name by building some brand values that a proportion of those hundreds of millions who are aware of us would find appealing and be something they would want to associate themselves with. Then the club have to nurture and exploit that appeal and turn it into a cashflow.

Obviously, the majority of overseas fans want to associate with current success, but there are niche branding opportunities which we could exploit if the marketing of our club was not just a comfy seat for the Chairman's son.

To build a strong niche brand, you firstly need to really stand for something that is unique, which we currently do not. Clearly, the one thing we own that no-one else does, which Rivercider was alluding to, is the history and heritage of being the world's most successful town team, trophies in three centuries and so on. Then you need to craft and deliver that message in every way possible such that any one coming into contact with the Blackburn Rovers name gets that message. As someone else mentioned, when we don't even play EVERY game in a halved shirt of some kind, then one despairs.

The next task is then to make that message RELEVANT, so it's not just about history. What is it about Blackburn Rovers that has made it successful across three centuries; i.e. what are our core brand equities? My own tuppenoth would be along the lines of epitomising Northern-ness. Grit, determination, inventive - we sprang from the loins of the inventors of the Industrial Revolution, tough - we should ALWAYS play in short sleeves, no effing Chimbonda gloves in August, Southern softies watch out kind of thing. We could be a sort of cross between the Green Bay Packers and the Cleveland Brown's. both NFL clubs that have distinctive brand personalities.

And so on. Branding is a like an iceberg, 95% is thinking that has to be gone through and then applied to every aspect of how the club interfaces with the world so that the message is cohesive. Advertising, if there even is any, is the last few %. Big advertising budgets make marketers lazy anyway.

Personally, I'd be amazed if a bunch of Trustees in Jersey would be a) interested in any of this and capable of doing it. Hedge funds though look to do it with many of the old and tired consumer goods businesses they buy.

Be happier if you said Pittsburgh Steelers but you're not wrong...

[tony gale's mic]

Well I'll try to get back to the branding opportunity.

There's a common misperception shared by most people, and some on this thread, that branding is advertising and lots of it, which is not true, and that the opportunities from a branding strategy are directly proportional to the club's current size - again, not true.

There are many brands which have built themselves from very small bases while spending a fraction when compared to their much larger competitors e.g. Ben and Jerry's in their early days, Green & Blacks in chocolate, Craft beers and so on.

The opportunity which did not exist before is that, thanks to the ever-increasing popularity of overseas televising of the Premier League and the fact that we have been in it for a decade now, there is an AWARENESS of Blackburn Rovers that dwarfs anything we have had before. The opportunity lies in adding appeal to the awareness of the name by building some brand values that a proportion of those hundreds of millions who are aware of us would find appealing and be something they would want to associate themselves with.

Obviously, the majority of overseas fans want to associate with current success, but there are niche branding opportunities which we could exploit if the marketing of our club was not just a comfy seat for the Chairman's son.

To build a strong niche brand, you firstly need to really stand for something that is unique, which we currently do not. Clearly, the one thing we own that no-one else does, which Rivercider was alluding to, is the history and heritage of being the world's most successful town team, trophies in three centuries and so on.

The next task is then to make that message RELEVANT, so it's not just about history. What is it about Blackburn Rovers that has made it successful across three centuries; i.e. what are our core brand values? My own tuppenoth would be along the lines of epitomising Northern-ness. Grit, determination, inventive - we sprang from the loins of the inventors of the Industrial Revolution, tough, Southern softies watch out kind of thing. We could be a sort of cross between the Green Bay Packers and the Cleveland Brown's. Both NFL clubs that have distinctive brand personalities.

Then you need to craft and deliver that message in every way possible such that any one coming into contact with the Blackburn Rovers name gets that message. As someone else mentioned, when we don't even play EVERY game in a halved shirt of some kind, then one despairs because we are not always recognisable. Little things like we should ALWAYS play in short sleeves - no effing Chimbonda gloves in August - if toughness is a brand value we want to own.

And so on. Branding is a like an iceberg, 95% is thinking that has to be gone through and then applied to every aspect of how the club interfaces with the world so that the message is cohesive. Advertising, if there even is any, is the last few %. Big advertising budgets make marketers lazy anyway. Then the club have to nurture and exploit that appeal and turn it into a cashflow.

Personally, I'd be amazed if a bunch of Trustees in Jersey would be a) interested in any of this and capable of doing it. Hedge funds though look to do it with many of the old and tired consumer goods businesses they buy.

You CANNOT compare consumer goods to football clubs. Like I said previously, most consumer goods, be it chocolate, beer, ice cream or anything, have a very subjective element be it aesthetics, taste etc etc which is the way that consumers compare them. Therefore this branding has a big impact on people's subjective opinions. You tell someone something is fairtrade or organic and a lot of them will feel it tastes better - even if its made with the same ingredients as something not labelled as this.

Football on the other hand has a massive, massive objective element which hugely overrides anything subjective and that's trophies in the cabinet and current positioning in world football. Therefore any comparisons with products and consumer goods that made it big are utterly irrelevant.

Have Rovers been successful across three centuries? We were down in the mire for much of the 1900s and only made it back because of Jack. Industrial revolution?! Only British people and people with a good knowledge of English history will know what that is and the historical circumstances surrounding our formation. Hell if people look that hard though they'll actually find out we were founded by ex Shrewsbury public school boys with a penchant for the Cambridge blue! So much for northern grit...And even then who honestly cares about Northern grit vs Southern softies apart from people in this country? It'd be absolutely useless creating an international image based on a stereotype which is mainly known within Britain.

The halved shirts I grant you but the rest of the ideas are really, really bad. And don't take that personally - you could be a marketing genius for all I know for something that had an ounce of potential to market as a global brand. But for us the only way is if we miraculously find a way into the upper echelons of the league and kick on from there.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Thank you for that lesson in marketing. I only spent my entire career in it. Perhaps I would have been more successful had I sought the advice of a 20-something doctor.

Your notion that sports entities cannot be successful as brands independent of their playing success, is, of course, ludicrous. The Toronto Maple Leafs have not won anything since 1967, have not won the most Stanley Cups, have not qualified for the playoffs for 4 years and currently sit bottom of the Eastern Conference, yet they remain the most popular club in the game because of what they represent.

More broadly, You obviously walk around with your eyes closed because branding is ubiquitous. It can add value to anything, not just packaged goods. Banks, the Post Office, places (countries, regions, towns) even ideas (e.g. CND) all benefit when a clear brand identity is established, communicated and delivered. It doesn't always work because most marketing is poor. Drucker once described it as the only business disciple that takes an afternoon to grasp but a lifetime to master. You should work towards spending the afternoon.

[PAFELL]

all might be true. I'm not saying it isn't. It's the fact that this particular player has somehow managed to get that legend status that just baffles me. I can't see the appeal - that's all. Just as I don't get the fawning over Mourinho either. The cult of celebrity has completely passed me by. I wouldn't buy anything just because a celebrity endorsed it - in fact that would probably make me less likely to buy it. I know most others don't feel the same, and accept it. But it doesn't change the way I feel. People can tell me till they are blue in the face how wonderful the guy is, but he doesn't do it for me in any way, shape or form. Now can we close this discussion and get back on topic.

Yes beckham has done good in football - some vitl goals for club or country - but I also cannot understand why people idolise him. He has also done good for the game due to his own lifting up of himself. But would I put him in the league of the greatest players of world football - no. people lift him up because he scores goals or creates goals. But what about the goalkeeper who stops goals being scored. Sadly it appears it is only the players who score or create goals that get the superstar status.

I would say Brad Friedal is the u;timate proffesional - others would disagree (their right of course). but there is a player who was blasted, maybe rightly when at liverpool. But look how he turned his game around and without the media circus around him. My hats goes off to those type of players. Not the look at me type player, but the one who just gets on with the game.

[thenodrog]

One of the biggest piles of @#/? I've ever read on this MB.

No your response is. Beckham never could dribble, tackle, kick with his left foot, head, or run fast. He had what is deemed a big engine, a huge passion for the game and a good right foot. He's been massively overrated cos he played for Man U and married a spice girl ffs.

[Silencio]

No your response is. Beckham never could dribble, tackle, kick with his left foot, head, or run fast. He had what is deemed a big engine, a huge passion for the game and a good right foot. He's been massively overrated cos he played for Man U and married a spice girl ffs.

Correct. He was a very good player for a few years but never more than that.

[tony gale's mic]

Thank you for that lesson in marketing. I only spent my entire career in it. Perhaps I would have been more successful had I sought the advice of a 20-something doctor.

Your notion that sports entities cannot be successful as brands independent of their playing success, is, of course, ludicrous. The Toronto Maple Leafs have not won anything since 1967, have not won the most Stanley Cups, have not qualified for the playoffs for 4 years and currently sit bottom of the Eastern Conference, yet they remain the most popular club in the game because of what they represent.

More broadly, You obviously walk around with your eyes closed because branding is ubiquitous. It can add value to anything, not just packaged goods. Banks, the Post Office, places (countries, regions, towns) even ideas (e.g. CND) all benefit when a clear brand identity is established, communicated and delivered. It doesn't always work because most marketing is poor. Drucker once described it as the only business disciple that takes an afternoon to grasp but a lifetime to master. You should work towards spending the afternoon.

I may not know a great deal about ice hockey but Toronto Maple Leafs have a lot that Rovers don't have. They're still one of Canada's most successful teams historically and they're from one of, if not the, biggest city in Canada. This has allowed them to build up a fanbase in the sport that can forgive their current predicament. I'm also guessing that their popularity has grown over time and it hasn't required some guys in suits in a boardroom coming up with this overnight. Sure, maybe to help sustain their popularity but thats a different matter. Surely comparing the two is a complete non starter.

And I didn't for one minute say that branding was only to packaged goods. However if you can't see the difference between the marketing of packaged goods, regions, banks and the marketing of sports teams then maybe you do need a twenty something doctor telling you some pretty basic facts. Almost everything else that you can market does NOT have such a clear and objective measure as in sport. They're either completely subjective (packaged goods, places, ideas like CND) or have so many individual comparisons between services they offer that branding becomes a valuable asset (banks).

Success on the pitch is a far more objective measure and so it becomes immeasurably more difficult to market our side to warrant such comparisons almost completely irrelevant. This is by far the best advert for any kids around the world who might want to find a football team to support. Probably next up is having foreign players from big markets playing for the team. But way down the list is some invented way to "market" our side, especially if said ways are as poor as the ones you demonstrated. I note you didn't try and defend those particular ideas or offer better ones - surely if you know a thing or two about marketing you can offer better alternatives than those - if they indeed exist?

[rivercider]

I may not know a great deal about ice hockey but Toronto Maple Leafs have a lot that Rovers don't have. They're still one of Canada's most successful teams historically and they're from one of, if not the, biggest city in Canada. This has allowed them to build up a fanbase in the sport that can forgive their current predicament. I'm also guessing that their popularity has grown over time and it hasn't required some guys in suits in a boardroom coming up with this overnight. Sure, maybe to help sustain their popularity but thats a different matter. Surely comparing the two is a complete non starter.

And I didn't for one minute say that branding was only to packaged goods. However if you can't see the difference between the marketing of packaged goods, regions, banks and the marketing of sports teams then maybe you do need a twenty something doctor telling you some pretty basic facts. Almost everything else that you can market does NOT have such a clear and objective measure as in sport. They're either completely subjective (packaged goods, places, ideas like CND) or have so many individual comparisons between services they offer that branding becomes a valuable asset (banks).

Success on the pitch is a far more objective measure and so it becomes immeasurably more difficult to market our side to warrant such comparisons almost completely irrelevant. This is by far the best advert for any kids around the world who might want to find a football team to support. Probably next up is having foreign players from big markets playing for the team. But way down the list is some invented way to "market" our side, especially if said ways are as poor as the ones you demonstrated. I note you didn't try and defend those particular ideas or offer better ones - surely if you know a thing or two about marketing you can offer better alternatives than those - if they indeed exist?

If I may just point out - you say sports clubs are different to consumer brands, and I agree 100%. But EIT is talking about sports clubs, using the example in the US of Cleveland and Green Bay, both small (by US standards) market teams which have huge popularity because they have been well branded. Cleveland (no offense to anyone from Ohio) is a steaming pile of a city but their team has a character not dissimilar to one Rovers has. Success is not all to do with it - the Chicago Cubs have the third biggest "out of market" (i.e. out of City) following of any baseball team and they haven't won a championship in over a century.

There is an image of Blackburn that has appeal worldwide. Ronaldo and Messi might appeal to the Hollywood types, but the middle America (and presumably other "non-football" nations) consists of hard working regular people who could relate very well to the mill-town underdogs from Blackburn (the same way they do to the Penguins and Steelers from very industrial Pittsburgh for example).

It might not work, but equally it could be very lucrative, and doesn't involve spending millions of dollars, just piggy-backing off another year in the biggest league in the world.

[Steve Moss]

Why would women want a pink and white Rovers shirt? Give me blue over pink any day. When I went shopping with my girls it would always be "Oh, look, this one's nice " "Do they do it in blue mum?" The internet thing is ture though. We don't even have a well-organised facebook group that the club uses to pass on info. All tv shows now use facebook and twitter to interact with their fans. Someone at the club should set one up and reply to fan questions etc directly, even if it's that they can't tell you for whatever reason, as do many shows nowadays - look at the Late Kick off ones for example. It's a small thing but grows awareness of you.

The pink/purple is what I have observed as being the dominant 'girl' colors in the USA. You are right, however, in that some prefer blue (especially light blue). Regardless, my point was not that the board had to market to women or the far east, or Muslims, etc. I was trying to express that we have a set budget for shirts. The home shirt is set in stone (blue and white) and should remain that way. We've lots of flexibility as to the away shirt. Marketing only to existing Rovers fans seems short sighted as they'll buy anyway. Without spending a cent (pence?) more, the board could target an additional demographic (however narrow) and do so via away shirt design. It might fail, but it wouldn't result in any financial harm to the club and might result in more shirt sales and, by extension, more interest in the Rovers.

I have a brother of dubious character who suggested the Rovers adopt a 'tie-die' away shirt. Wants to appeal to the pot crowd. I disagreed (family values and all that) but at least its a plan. I don't sense any plan other than 'safe' in our away shirt designs.

I like the idea of the club putting out a dozen or so designs early in the year and letting the fans vote on it over a period of months. Maybe do a series of votes, eliminating the low performers, and keeping going until a specific shirt design breaks the 50% mark. It might energize the base a bit if they felt more involved.

Liked the rest of your post smoss but this bit leapt out at me for a comment. The teenagers I know usually go in exactly the opposite direction to that advocated to them. If enough people follow the big 4/5 then that will become the established view/position and they will rebel and walk in the opposite direction looking for some rebel cause to nail their colours to. Being told that classical music is technically far superior to hip hop will not result in the Royal Albert Hall being filled with teenagers.

I agree that teenagers have a tendency to 'rebel'. I have noticed that they tend to rebel in packs, in that what we rational and responsible adults despise (ManU) they will adopt as their cause en masse.

[CaliRoverNYC]

Clearly its possible to market a team as unique and special w/o playing in the champions league... Just look at Sankt Pauli a second division team that became part of a cultural movement and is now capitalizing on it. However Pauli was part of the movement because of the supporter's culture and not because of a marketing campaign. Thats not to say it can't be done with successful marketing but it would help to have some grass roots involvement.

Most american West Ham fans cite Iron Maiden or Green Street Hooligans as a reason for supporting the club.

The Baseball team I grew up supporting put a huge billboard just before the bridge that separates their city from that of their Rival. The Billboard read "You are now leaving Baseball Country." Rovers could put a similar billboard on M65 between Accrington and Burnley. Not only would it be a slight to Burnley supporters but it would subtly claim Accrington as Rovers territory.

[philipl]

Interesting debate. In marketing there is only what works and what doesn't in particular circumstances.

I happened to stumble across Rovers' 2002 accounts on my hard drive yesterday and was surprised to see that Rovers' own marketing revenue has grown proportionately by more than the overall leap in turnover from 20 to 50 million.

The recovery of attendances to near 2002 levels is also striking.

One point about the Trust- they are no more running Rovers than they are running Flybe. They appoint professional management to do the job and that includes the marketing.

In the final analysis, there was a willing seller with a remit to do the best by the business being sold and a buyer who couldn't put a sufficiently strong or pursuasive offer together. In the light of November 2008, that was an extremely good thing for all Rovers fans.

The Arsenal take over scene

[Paul Mellelieu]

St Pauli also came to mind: I believe they sell the the most shirts in Germany after Bayern Munich. Now if Rovers could immerse itself into a leftist counter-cultural movement, turn home games into the footballing equivalent of Glastonbury festival, raise banners of Che Guevara, then maybe we'll be onto something.... Oh yes I think their owner is in the 'sex industry'.

Best club Ishop 've visited though http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2786179935_830904812c.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/8641271%40N07/2786179935/&usg=__5fkZJHFvF6QuyuUG_2JaOCuMYPc=&h=332&w=500&sz=120&hl=en&start=9&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=sBwta5n9g-mGcM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst%2Bpauli%2Bshop%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1

http://www.fcstpauli-shop.de/index.php/cat/c2_FRAU.html

History here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_St._Pauli

Maybe the way forward is to market the club as a boutique outfit, rather than northern grit.

[TimmyJimmy]

Well I'll try to get back to the branding opportunity.

There's a common misperception shared by most people, and some on this thread, that branding is advertising and lots of it, which is not true, and that the opportunities from a branding strategy are directly proportional to the club's current size - again, not true.

There are many brands which have built themselves from very small bases while spending a fraction when compared to their much larger competitors e.g. Ben and Jerry's in their early days, Green & Blacks in chocolate, Craft beers and so on.

The opportunity which did not exist before is that, thanks to the ever-increasing popularity of overseas televising of the Premier League and the fact that we have been in it for a decade now, there is an AWARENESS of Blackburn Rovers that dwarfs anything we have had before. The opportunity lies in adding appeal to the awareness of the name by building some brand values that a proportion of those hundreds of millions who are aware of us would find appealing and be something they would want to associate themselves with.

Obviously, the majority of overseas fans want to associate with current success, but there are niche branding opportunities which we could exploit if the marketing of our club was not just a comfy seat for the Chairman's son.

To build a strong niche brand, you firstly need to really stand for something that is unique, which we currently do not. Clearly, the one thing we own that no-one else does, which Rivercider was alluding to, is the history and heritage of being the world's most successful town team, trophies in three centuries and so on.

The next task is then to make that message RELEVANT, so it's not just about history. What is it about Blackburn Rovers that has made it successful across three centuries; i.e. what are our core brand values? My own tuppenoth would be along the lines of epitomising Northern-ness. Grit, determination, inventive - we sprang from the loins of the inventors of the Industrial Revolution, tough, Southern softies watch out kind of thing. We could be a sort of cross between the Green Bay Packers and the Cleveland Brown's. Both NFL clubs that have distinctive brand personalities.

Then you need to craft and deliver that message in every way possible such that any one coming into contact with the Blackburn Rovers name gets that message. As someone else mentioned, when we don't even play EVERY game in a halved shirt of some kind, then one despairs because we are not always recognisable. Little things like we should ALWAYS play in short sleeves - no effing Chimbonda gloves in August - if toughness is a brand value we want to own.

And so on. Branding is a like an iceberg, 95% is thinking that has to be gone through and then applied to every aspect of how the club interfaces with the world so that the message is cohesive. Advertising, if there even is any, is the last few %. Big advertising budgets make marketers lazy anyway. Then the club have to nurture and exploit that appeal and turn it into a cashflow.

Personally, I'd be amazed if a bunch of Trustees in Jersey would be a) interested in any of this and capable of doing it. Hedge funds though look to do it with many of the old and tired consumer goods businesses they buy.

If only I could be this articulate EIT. Nicely put.

[Paul]

Your notion that sports entities cannot be successful as brands independent of their playing success, is, of course, ludicrous. The Toronto Maple Leafs have not won anything since 1967, have not won the most Stanley Cups, have not qualified for the playoffs for 4 years and currently sit bottom of the Eastern Conference, yet they remain the most popular club in the game because of what they represent

As an observation on the discussion I only know this club plays ice hockey because TGM has said they do. Does this not to an extent defend his point on branding. The Toronto Maple Leafs are said to be an example of a successful brand but as general sports fan I have never heard of them. If the branding works would I not at least know the sport they play in? We do occassionally watch ice hockey live.

If I may just point out - you say sports clubs are different to consumer brands, and I agree 100%. But EIT is talking about sports clubs, using the example in the US of Cleveland and Green Bay, both small (by US standards) market teams which have huge popularity because they have been well branded.

Again I'd ask about the impact of branding. I know there is a team called Green Bay Packers(?) because they played in the Superbowl several years ago. What do Cleveland do? I'm being serious, I listen to UK sports radio a lot, which these days covers a wide range of sport outside of the UK, but have no idea what Cleveland do.

Just to add another point. I know Springsteen performed at Superbowl in 2008, and The Who in 2009. I have no idea who played in the game. Interesting the rock star performers make more impact than the team names?

[gumboots]

Those are however, American sports and of limited appeal worldwide. Football has worldwide appeal and so there should be more opportunity for us to promote ourselves if we could find the right angles. It's not an easy thing to do though and Man Utd and a handful of other big teams have all but sewn it up for the moment

[super_arran]

As an observation on the discussion I only know this club plays ice hockey because TGM has said they do. Does this not to an extent defend his point on branding. The Toronto Maple Leafs are said to be an example of a successful brand but as general sports fan I have never heard of them. If the branding works would I not at least know the sport they play in? We do occassionally watch ice hockey live.

Again I'd ask about the impact of branding. I know there is a team called Green Bay Packers(?) because they played in the Superbowl several years ago. What do Cleveland do? I'm being serious, I listen to UK sports radio a lot, which these days covers a wide range of sport outside of the UK, but have no idea what Cleveland do.

Just to add another point. I know Springsteen performed at Superbowl in 2008, and The Who in 2009. I have no idea who played in the game. Interesting the rock star performers make more impact than the team names?

The Cleveland Indians are a baseball team.

I'd say they have one of the most recognisable logos for any sports team.

Which to a company is highly important for marketing purposes.

[Balwer]

As an enormous Packers and Rovers fan I would like to point out a few things. Rovers may have history, but Green Bay (and please excuse my bias here) has far more comparative to other teams. Green Bay is the oldest NFL team in existence that has used the same name (Cardinals are older but moved to Arizona). Green Bay is also affectionately known as 'Titletown' because it has won the most World Championships (and the first two Superbowls). Its Hall of Fame is second only to the NFL one in Canton, and the Superbowl winner receives the Lombardi trophy, named after the famous Green Bay coach Vince. Furthermore, the unique factor about Green Bay is that they are the only publicly owned professional sports team in the US.

I would love to see Rovers generate the same sort of marketing revenue and merchandise sales that the Pack do, because the towns are similar size, however the above are only a handful of the factors working against Rovers in this case.

p.s please don't ever compare the Pack to the Browns, awful franchise that they are. Also how is a city of 2.25m comparable to a town of 137,000?

[T4E]

Again I'd ask about the impact of branding. I know there is a team called Green Bay Packers(?) because they played in the Superbowl several years ago. What do Cleveland do? I'm being serious, I listen to UK sports radio a lot, which these days covers a wide range of sport outside of the UK, but have no idea what Cleveland do.

Just to add another point. I know Springsteen performed at Superbowl in 2008, and The Who in 2009. I have no idea who played in the game. Interesting the rock star performers make more impact than the team names?

Cleveland Browns are also an NFL team, but you're right they havent played in a Superbowl in recent times.

Regarding Springsteen/The Who - you would have heard of them before the Superbowl, and they are well known in this country. Therefore them playing the half-time show is news in this country, whereas the teams competing arent. As an NFL fan I could tell you the teams that competed in the Superbowl for the last several years, but I couldnt tell you who performed at half time in each. You and I are not good yard sticks for this though - the real test would be a man of similar age/interests to yourself that lives in the US - I would guess he would have known the teams competing even without being a fan.

[LWX]

What's wrong with the browns...? I used like how thier dog pound hurled bones at john elway... class!!!

[S15]

No your response is. Beckham never could dribble, tackle, kick with his left foot, head, or run fast. He had what is deemed a big engine, a huge passion for the game and a good right foot. He's been massively overrated cos he played for Man U and married a spice girl ffs.

Over rated so much he once finished second in the 'World Player The Year' award list (voted for by International Managers) and has more medals than you have brain cells.