[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[Majiball]

Which is by and large what the Walker Trust has delivered for ten seasons.

American makes an extremely valid point about wages and continuity. Remember Rovers typically spend over 70% of turn over on wages- I am not saying that is a good thing but a significant reason for this being the case and Rovers keeping roughly on a break even basis is because the club has zero costs of ownership.

All other clubs are leaking at least £1m per year (and several much more) paying owner director fees, salares and expenses. This is a hidden "below the line" subsidy from the Trust. If you don't believe me, just look at what Storrie paid himself at Pompey for destroying that club, Ridsdale's fees for destroying Leeds and the Eggman's pay cheques for making the Tevez farce cost West Ham an extra £25m over the original £7m fine and costs.

Do we not spend a lot more on wages than 70%, I thought we where pushing 83-84% of our total turnover on wages?

LT has us at 90% in this article

I'm all for us spending high amounts on wages as its true there is a correlation between them and final league position, but its no garuntee as many a recently relegated big club would know. My worry is and always has been that we neglect other area's of the club to do this, which could increase turnover themsleves IE the academy. Staffing as well is low and a couple of extra ones could raise others games.

I know the club likes to get as much money back as possible on players we don't need, but we also have a few players who must be on decent money who for me should just be harked round on frees, just to free up wages.

[Balwer]

All this talk of getting rid of players wages that we don't need makes me wonder if there's anything in the pipeline for Zurab, Rigters and one of Brown/Bunn (preferably Brown).

[Majiball]

All this talk of getting rid of players wages that we don't need makes me wonder if there's anything in the pipeline for Zurab, Rigters and one of Brown/Bunn (preferably Brown).

Zurab was linked to Reading, but we want a fee and they have no money so he'll be picking up his 10K+ from us again next year for doing bugger all.

Brown was linked with a move as well but alas that seems to have gone down the swanny aswell.

Rigters, might as well just try and negotiate a pay-off as no-sane manager wants him on the salary we pay him.

[thenodrog]

Dunno if this puts a different perspective into things but my (albeit scant and unconfirmed) information is that the entire package of Walker businesses are not lumped into one large pot but divided into the portfolio's of the individual benefactors. In this respect BRFC is contained lock, stock and barrell into the individual trust package of just one of the Walker children.

[LeChuck]

Rigters, might as well just try and negotiate a pay-off as no-sane manager wants him on the salary we pay him.

Rigters was signing for Kilmarnock on deadline day until the Dindane deal collapsed. I think he was actually travelling there when he was told to turn round.

[bluebruce]

Rigters was signing for Kilmarnock on deadline day until the Dindane deal collapsed. I think he was actually travelling there when he was told to turn round.

And DAMN was that a stupid move on our part.

[Majiball]

WHY!!!

[Paul]

Paul, should the Trust do the smart thing, and NOT sell the majority of the club? I know they want out, but by what you say, its perhaps in the best interest of the trust, to maintain a small percentage of Rovers. You make a valid point, but at the end of the day, if a new owner meets the criteria, and they own 100% of Rovers, then they can do whatever they want.

I understand this to mean the new owners can do what they want. That is the whole issue as far as I am concerned eventually the new owners will be able to do exactly as they wish and this may not please any of us.

Granted there is an issue of needing the will to enforce it after the sale but the selling party can do many things to bind the ongoing actions of the buying party at the time of sale.

The Moores family had an agreement that the Americans would not load Liverpool with the debt cost of buying the club- now look where Liverpool are because the covenant only lasted for a defined period of time which has elapsed.

No potential new owner is going to sign up to any clause forever and a day which means ultimately Rovers run the risk of being loaded with debt or some other bad news story. The Trust represents safety and by and large delivers year after year. Step outside of the trust and we enter a very different world, one which I dislike and distrust entirely

Paul, do you really think Rovers have given it best shot at tapping into the asian and american markets?

No of course they haven't and the problem is they can't afford to and I doubt new owners will be able to either. Kalinic is sponsored by Holly Tree Chippy, Nelsen by Gareth's Florists ( I think it's fantastic local business provides the sponsorship) but tapping the Asian ( I take it you mean Asia and not the local Asian community?) and US markets is a bit of step up from this. The costs of breaking into these markets will be enormous and the returns dubious.

Secondly recent experience suggests to me we need to be looking closer to home first - ever tried to get any information on the Hospitality available from the cub?

Dunno if this puts a different perspective into things but my (albeit scant and unconfirmed) information is that the entire package of Walker businesses are not lumped into one large pot but divided into the portfolio's of the individual benefactors. In this respect BRFC is contained lock, stock and barrell into the individual trust package of just one of the Walker children.

If correct, and I don't doubt it, this explains a lot.

[thenodrog]

No of course they haven't and the problem is they can't afford to and I doubt new owners will be able to either. Kalinic is sponsored by Holly Tree Chippy,

Hey don't knock Holly Tree Chippy......... they had RSC last year! Maybe they could do some scouting for us when the chippies shut.

[Amo]

Rigters was signing for Kilmarnock on deadline day until the Dindane deal collapsed. I think he was actually travelling there when he was told to turn round.

Why on earth would we do that? I know we're short of strikers, but we're not THAT desperate.

[LeChuck]

Why on earth would we do that? I know we're short of strikers, but we're not THAT desperate.

It had me puzzled too, I don't think he even made the bench at any point.

Here's Rigters talking about it. I know it's Tribal Football, but they are direct quotes from him, I just can't be arsed trying to find anything more reputable, I thought I read it on the official site though.

I did get one bit wrong, he was packed and ready to drive, not actually on his way.

[doctorryan]

Dunno if this puts a different perspective into things but my (albeit scant and unconfirmed) information is that the entire package of Walker businesses are not lumped into one large pot but divided into the portfolio's of the individual benefactors. In this respect BRFC is contained lock, stock and barrell into the individual trust package of just one of the Walker children.

If that's true, my money's on Lynda Matthewman.

[47er]

The Trust represents safety and by and large delivers year after year. Step outside of the trust and we enter a very different world, one which I dislike and distrust entirely

I just do not understand why you and other keep saying this. This is the same Trust that HAS PUT THE CLUB ON THE MARKET. The argument for the Trust to continue ownership does not exist no matter how happy you and anyone else are with it.

[Hughesy]

If that's true, my money's on Lynda Matthewman.

One of the Matthewmans is on the board too....bloke though.

He also seems to have a powerful say in the hiring and firing of managers.

[Tris]

I just do not understand why you and other keep saying this. This is the same Trust that HAS PUT THE CLUB ON THE MARKET. The argument for the Trust to continue ownership does not exist no matter how happy you and anyone else are with it.

The Trust has put the club on the market in recognition of the fact that the landscape has changed so much in the last 10 years. The arrangements made in the late 1990s are no longer of real value to either party, but I doubt that either party is in a position to change them.

You keep using shouty capitals, and words like "desperate" to sell, "determined" to sell, "keen" to sell - those are your words though.

If they were desperate to sell, then the sale would have happened 3 years ago to the first or second bidder. Rovers would probably now be defunct, so let's thank the Trust for passing up on the likes of Dan Williams and Chris Ronnie.

You are right that the argument for the Trust to continue ownership does not exist. They are the owners and Blackburn Rovers is probably the safest club in the pyramid of 92 league clubs as long as that remains the status quo. There is no safer option for BRFC at the moment.

All this talk of inevitable relegation and subsequent oblivion under the current ownership is absolute garbage, it's just scaremongering ... when the last 10 years disprove it completely.

[jodrell]

One of the Matthewmans is on the board too....bloke though.

He also seems to have a powerful say in the hiring and firing of managers.

I think he is married to one of Jacks Daughters which could be Lynda.

[47er]

The Trust has put the club on the market in recognition of the fact that the landscape has changed so much in the last 10 years. The arrangements made in the late 1990s are no longer of real value to either party, but I doubt that either party is in a position to change them.

You keep using shouty capitals, and words like "desperate" to sell, "determined" to sell, "keen" to sell - those are your words though.

If they were desperate to sell, then the sale would have happened 3 years ago to the first or second bidder. Rovers would probably now be defunct, so let's thank the Trust for passing up on the likes of Dan Williams and Chris Ronnie.

You are right that the argument for the Trust to continue ownership does not exist. They are the owners and Blackburn Rovers is probably the safest club in the pyramid of 92 league clubs as long as that remains the status quo. There is no safer option for BRFC at the moment.

All this talk of inevitable relegation and subsequent oblivion under the current ownership is absolute garbage, it's just scaremongering ... when the last 10 years disprove it completely.

The extent of the owners desire to sell can be gauged by the recent reduction in the asking price.

To talk of future relegation is not scaremongering, its merely my opinion. We have saved ourselves again this past season by using methods of which you thoroughly disapprove and with a manager you detest.You told us season-ticket holders would leave us in droves!

The last 10 years prove little. Things are changing very rapidly. 10 years ago we would never have dreamed that Wigan could buy a player we can't afford.

"there is no safer option"--wrong because its not an option. Clinging to the past may seem comforting but it won't work in the end.

[iamarover]

The extent of the owners desire to sell can be gauged by the recent reduction in the asking price.

To talk of future relegation is not scaremongering, its merely my opinion. We have saved ourselves again this past season by using methods of which you thoroughly disapprove and with a manager you detest.You told us season-ticket holders would leave us in droves!

The last 10 years prove little. Things are changing very rapidly. 10 years ago we would never have dreamed that Wigan could buy a player we can't afford.

"there is no safer option"--wrong because its not an option. Clinging to the past may seem comforting but it won't work in the end.

The only person I'd hope to see buy Rovers would either be a genuine supporter (unlikely) or someone mega-rich who wants to own a premiership club for the fun of it and isn't looking for a financial return. Hard to find but not out of the question.

I mentioned 15M "transforming" the club, each and every year with no strings attached + any revenue from sales would transform the club over time. If we can finish 10th on a -budget what would we do with a minimum +15M each and every year?

47er

The Rage. It happens when I read twittering nonsense like this.

When you combine your last post with an earlier one of yours, 47er, as I have done here, the full extent of the idiocy behind your position becomes evident. What Tris, Philip, Paul and anyone else with a sense not borne out of Never Never Land is saying is this.

The Trust can continue to run the club for the next 100 years and more if the obligations set out by Jack are not met. Those obligations protect the club from the rape and pillage suffered by United, Liverpool, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham to name but a few. Your strategy is to replace the current stable environment where, uniquely, the owners take out precisely nothing from the riches that pour in every year, and indeed to date have lumped in a colossal 100m pounds. And your replacement proposal is to get in.....a mega rich millionaire. Well just how long were you in a darkened room before you emerged whooping at the genius in your brain that unlocked this stunning notion. LET'S GET SOMEONE IN WHO IS RICH AND MENTAL.

Just read your statement again. It is wondrously deluded. Your inance ramblings against the Trust is based on a strategy that has less chance of happening than the Messiah making the half time draw at Ewood in the Inter Galactic Champions Cup Final against Mars Rangers. A 'mega rich millionaire who wants to run a Premiership club for fun'. What ? Oh and the 15 million big ones he has to cough up a year has to have 'no strings attached'. Are you deranged?

All Rovers fans should fall on their knees every day and pray the protection this marvellous Trust affords the club is never taken away. Once it does, the wolves will circle. Football is dripping with shysters looking to plant their snouts in the trough of a privately owned club where they set the terms of financial extraction. One of them might, it is true, acually undergo a Damascene conversion and throw his largesse not at the poor or the dispossessed but at a football club. Well he might but the stars might fall down tonight and the sun might go out.

Until that happens, the wonderful boredom of ownership stability offers the hope of Premiership survival and the glory of the Cups. In that we Trust.

[47er]

The only person I'd hope to see buy Rovers would either be a genuine supporter (unlikely) or someone mega-rich who wants to own a premiership club for the fun of it and isn't looking for a financial return. Hard to find but not out of the question.

I mentioned 15M "transforming" the club, each and every year with no strings attached + any revenue from sales would transform the club over time. If we can finish 10th on a -budget what would we do with a minimum +15M each and every year?

47er

The Rage. It happens when I read twittering nonsense like this.

When you combine your last post with an earlier one of yours, 47er, as I have done here, the full extent of the idiocy behind your position becomes evident. What Tris, Philip, Paul and anyone else with a sense not borne out of Never Never Land is saying is this.

The Trust can continue to run the club for the next 100 years and more if the obligations set out by Jack are not met. Those obligations protect the club from the rape and pillage suffered by United, Liverpool, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham to name but a few. Your strategy is to replace the current stable environment where, uniquely, the owners take out precisely nothing from the riches that pour in every year, and indeed to date have lumped in a colossal 100m pounds. And your replacement proposal is to get in.....a mega rich millionaire. Well just how long were you in a darkened room before you emerged whooping at the genius in your brain that unlocked this stunning notion. LET'S GET SOMEONE IN WHO IS RICH AND MENTAL.

Just read your statement again. It is wondrously deluded. Your inance ramblings against the Trust is based on a strategy that has less chance of happening than the Messiah making the half time draw at Ewood in the Inter Galactic Champions Cup Final against Mars Rangers. A 'mega rich millionaire who wants to run a Premiership club for fun'. What ? Oh and the 15 million big ones he has to cough up a year has to have 'no strings attached'. Are you deranged?

All Rovers fans should fall on their knees every day and pray the protection this marvellous Trust affords the club is never taken away. Once it does, the wolves will circle. Football is dripping with shysters looking to plant their snouts in the trough of a privately owned club where they set the terms of financial extraction. One of them might, it is true, acually undergo a Damascene conversion and throw his largesse not at the poor or the dispossessed but at a football club. Well he might but the stars might fall down tonight and the sun might go out.

Until that happens, the wonderful boredom of ownership stability offers the hope of Premiership survival and the glory of the Cups. In that we Trust.

The first post you quote from me was nothing to do with what I expect to happen but what I'd ideally like to see happen.I said what I'd do if I had hundreds of millions in reply to someone else who said he wouldn't touch the club even if he had that sort of money. You have totally taken my comments out of context.

I repeat---there is no ownership stability when the owners have the club on the market and no progress in the long-term till we are better financed. Nothing deluded, deranged about that. Just a different opinion to yours expressed without any personal insults whereas yours is full of them. Proud of yourself?

[Majiball]

No of course they haven't and the problem is they can't afford to and I doubt new owners will be able to either. Kalinic is sponsored by Holly Tree Chippy, Nelsen by Gareth's Florists ( I think it's fantastic local business provides the sponsorship) but tapping the Asian ( I take it you mean Asia and not the local Asian community?) and US markets is a bit of step up from this. The costs of breaking into these markets will be enormous and the returns dubious.

Do you not think that if we were to say take a punt on the "Korean Rooney" who surely wouldn't cost that much and do a pre-season tour over that way that we could gain "fans" from it. I'd be keen to know how Bolton have faired in sales etc since they signed there "player" and the tour they did over there. I'm sure an invitation to one of their lucrative pre-season games could be arranged once we had an Asian player in our ranks.

[den]

Two frames of thought here, - stick with the trust, or move on to other owners? Well, we have no choice in the matter because the trustees will sell the club. The trustees retaining the club really doesn't seem to be a realistic possibility.

Of course the club has been well looked after by the trustees since Jack's death and still will be, although the funding has, at the moment, dried up. The trustees will do their utmost to find the right buyer also, - but even they will have no influence as to how things will pan out, in the middle to long term, once any sale goes through.

What 47er is saying and I have to agree with him, is that there's no point putting any argument forward for the club to stay in the hands of the trustees, no matter how much anyone would like that. That argument is just pointless. There is a viewpoint as well, that any business [and this is a business] can never progress under owners who don't want to be there. The trustees patently don't want to be there, because they do have the option of continuing with the business, but reject that option.

So yeah, a trust who want involvement would be great, but as I started by saying, that's not realistic. They will sell, it's just a matter of when.

[brian_gallagher85]

I'd love us to do a tour of North Korea

[Paul]

Do you not think that if we were to say take a punt on the "Korean Rooney" who surely wouldn't cost that much and do a pre-season tour over that way that we could gain "fans" from it. I'd be keen to know how Bolton have faired in sales etc since they signed there "player" and the tour they did over there. I'm sure an invitation to one of their lucrative pre-season games could be arranged once we had an Asian player in our ranks.

I usually have something to respond with but on this one all I can think of is "No." Pure and simple, sorry.

[47er]

Two frames of thought here, - stick with the trust, or move on to other owners? Well, we have no choice in the matter because the trustees will sell the club. The trustees retaining the club really doesn't seem to be a realistic possibility.

Of course the club has been well looked after by the trustees since Jack's death and still will be, although the funding has, at the moment, dried up. The trustees will do their utmost to find the right buyer also, - but even they will have no influence as to how things will pan out, in the middle to long term, once any sale goes through.

What 47er is saying and I have to agree with him, is that there's no point putting any argument forward for the club to stay in the hands of the trustees, no matter how much anyone would like that. That argument is just pointless. There is a viewpoint as well, that any business [and this is a business] can never progress under owners who don't want to be there. The trustees patently don't want to be there, because they do have the option of continuing with the business, but reject that option.

So yeah, a trust who want involvement would be great, but as I started by saying, that's not realistic. They will sell, it's just a matter of when.

Thanks Den for putting into better words than mine exactly what I wanted to say.

[Sparky Marky]

One of the Matthewmans is on the board too....bloke though.

He also seems to have a powerful say in the hiring and firing of managers.

You see this is exactly why we're lagging behind in commercial activity etc....I'm telling you it's jobs for the boys down at ewood and they're all family members...like Coar in Marketing or something....what's going on?...They can't all be qualified for the jobs they do....the sooner we move into the proper leaguewith the commercial side of things, then we'll always be a shyte prospect for a purchaser....I don't even think they want to sell really...they love the shennanigans and half of them would be sacked if a new buyer came in anyway....Its like a turkey voting for christmas...