[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

At last someone has shown signs of actully understanding what I have been banging on about in countless past posts for several years now! Sorry Paul ; I am not getting at you (far from it), but I have been trying (utterly without any sign of understanding or recognition prior to your post) to get people to recognise just what this whole PL experience has done to Football as a form of cheap and deeply satisfying form of entertainment. The plain unvarnished truth is that the PL concept was invented PURELY to make money and lots of it for the media and for the PL's themselves with no regard for the eventual consequences to the clubs (all but the chosen few), and the fans (all but the wealthiest).

I have always followed Rovers and always will (still a S/T holder), but on the weeks when I cannot get down to Blackburn, or when Rovers are away, I often go and watch a local game. And as I have said on here many times: when I watch the likes of Dunfermline or Cowdenbeath, or East Fife I see every time two teams of committed players getting stuck in with a passion that is completely missing from the PL games. OK, I admit the "skill factor" is noticeably lower, but the enthusiasm of both players and spectators alike is palpably stronger, and consequently for me the experience is so much more exciting and interesting. In other words the whole experience is both cheap and ENJOYABLE, which is more than can be said for many of the PL matches I have watched both in England and in Scotland.

Anyway that is just my view of it all; you must all make up your own minds. Mine stays as it is; which is that I am and will remain a true Blackburn Rovers fan and will continue to attend matches at Ewood for as long as I possibly can, but I will continue to hope that sooner rather than later the whole PL idea implodes and disappears never to return. Then (hopefully)common sense will return and Football will get back to the old way of the Football Leagues and acceptable wages and prices for all. I will probably not live to see it unfotunately but hopefully most of you will.

I must admit that I agree. I had more fun watching Rovers before Jack's money. Don't get me wrong - Jack gave Rovers fans something we could only ever dream of - but at times I do miss the greater feeling of togetherness that was at the club when I started watching Rovers in the late seventies. The fans weren't removed from the players in the same way we are now.

Having said all that - though the football was at times average (to say the least)- I enjoyed last season more than most - the atmosphere has improved drastically.

[patrickvalery]

You're not alone Fife. I have been saying this myself for a very long time, ...............

Paul, Fife etc.. please excuse my presumption here, but i guess your a generation above me. However, this line of thinking isn't just for those who recall the grim days pre Jack Walker. My father is a Southampton fan and has moaned like hell over recent years at their decline. Understandably really as they almost went to the wall due to the horrendous financial management of the club. However they have come through it and on numerous occassions i have said he should relish the experiance of low league football. I don't subscribe to the idea that playing premier league football is the be all and end all. Why should we be grateful to see the worlds best talent plying their trade at Ewood? For one they are generally on the opposing team! What is more important to me is going to watch a game of football not burdened with the feeling that the best you can hope for is a spirited performace and a low scoring defeat. Thats the beauty of low league football. Anyone can win on any given day. The odds aren't so heavily stacked against certain teams.

The PL has become a stage for bronzed, well groomed, actors. Players who dare attempt a blood curdling challenge are chastised. For god sake, we are known as an ugly footballing side. Over physical in the extreme. That is simply not true. We are light weight in comparison. Proper football is about a lightening quick winger getting at his full back for ninety minutes and watching a right good ding dong as the full back kicks lumps out of him.

I expect to get ridiculed for this, but if we got relegated without fear of financial collapse, i'd take it in a heartbeat.

[den]

I expect to get ridiculed for this, but if we got relegated without fear of financial collapse, i'd take it in a heartbeat.

You would like us to get relegated? I understand the sentiments about PL football, but it's not really any better in the lower leagues ya know. If it was, the attendances would be on a par with ours. Do you think Rovers would average 25000 in the Championship?

[1864roverite]

Come off it Paul, I though our Keef floated your boat football wise

[ada2020]

Paul, Fife etc.. please excuse my presumption here, but i guess your a generation above me. However, this line of thinking isn't just for those who recall the grim days pre Jack Walker. My father is a Southampton fan and has moaned like hell over recent years at their decline. Understandably really as they almost went to the wall due to the horrendous financial management of the club. However they have come through it and on numerous occassions i have said he should relish the experiance of low league football. I don't subscribe to the idea that playing premier league football is the be all and end all. Why should we be grateful to see the worlds best talent plying their trade at Ewood? For one they are generally on the opposing team! What is more important to me is going to watch a game of football not burdened with the feeling that the best you can hope for is a spirited performace and a low scoring defeat. Thats the beauty of low league football. Anyone can win on any given day. The odds aren't so heavily stacked against certain teams.

The PL has become a stage for bronzed, well groomed, actors. Players who dare attempt a blood curdling challenge are chastised. For god sake, we are known as an ugly footballing side. Over physical in the extreme. That is simply not true. We are light weight in comparison. Proper football is about a lightening quick winger getting at his full back for ninety minutes and watching a right good ding dong as the full back kicks lumps out of him.

I expect to get ridiculed for this, but if we got relegated without fear of financial collapse, i'd take it in a heartbeat.

Tripe!!!!!!!

Relish lower league football, I bet your dad hasn't once looked to the heavens and thanked god Southampton arnt in that big bad premier league. You expect to get ridiculed eh, with comments like that you bloody deserve to be.

This thread is meant to focus on any potential take over news, if you want to wax lyrical about the values of lower league football why not try starting a new thread.

[patrickvalery]

Tripe!!!!!!!

Relish lower league football, I bet your dad hasn't once looked to the heavens and thanked god Southampton arnt in that big bad premier league. You expect to get ridiculed eh, with comments like that you bloody deserve to be.

This thread is meant to focus on any potential take over news, if you want to wax lyrical about the values of lower league football why not try starting a new thread.

No he hasn't. But the Premier league has changed even since Saints got relegated. I was responding to posts on the subject so feel validated in posting on this thread ta very much.

Can you honestly say you enjoy Saturdays against the big 4/5/6/7/8 anymore? The fact the PL is so unbalanced makes for a dull spectacle in my humble opinion. Low league football is far and away more entertaining. If sides like us were able to comete on a level playing field with everyone else the PL would be much more enjoyable. The trend it is taking has got no longevity. I don't know what you look for in football, but me personally, i prefer a hard fought game where both sides attack each other and either can win. The PL doesn't offer this anymore. The only way for clubs to get close to the big boys is by souless investment by outside consortiums who car only about making a profit or having a premier league play thing to massage their ego's. Call me old fashioned but i'd sooner watch proper football.

You would like us to get relegated? I understand the sentiments about PL football, but it's not really any better in the lower leagues ya know. If it was, the attendances would be on a par with ours. Do you think Rovers would average 25000 in the Championship?

No certainly not Den. But i'm afraid most of the premier league fans are duped by the glitz and glamour. Its not the football i played as a younster and its not the football i was brought up on. Its a watered down hollywood version. Still each to their own.

[ada2020]

Saints were relegated 4-5 seasons ago? The premiership landscape hasn't altered all that much I'm afraid. There is still only 4 teams probably more likely 3 that have realistic aspirations of winning the league. The rest of us have always been there to make up the numbers. I understand your stance to a degree but find it annoying when you say you would prefer us to be in the championship? League 1? Apparantly competing rather than taking our place each week in the premier league. The new saints owners will be geared up to get back to the top, and their fans, old and new when asked, I would place money on it would prefer to be watching top league football week in week out.

While we are only making up the numbers you should atleast try and be gratefull for the fact, and for a team making up the numbers we didn't half take some points of the big teams last season. It isn't perfect, but I'll take it over playing at the stadium MK anyday.

Your entitled to your opinion patrick, but suggesting relegation would provide us more entertainment does not wash with me.

[BPF]

This forum is crazy.

I'm so glad we fight so hard against relegation, although it all seems a bit needless when the lower leagues contain 'real football.'

I guess some of you are hoping for our rapid decent into the times of old? Makes Walker spending all his money a bit pointless I guess...

[Iceman]

Im just glad we still an Epl club

[patrickvalery]

Saints were relegated 4-5 seasons ago? The premiership landscape hasn't altered all that much I'm afraid. There is still only 4 teams probably more likely 3 that have realistic aspirations of winning the league. The rest of us have always been there to make up the numbers. I understand your stance to a degree but find it annoying when you say you would prefer us to be in the championship? League 1? Apparantly competing rather than taking our place each week in the premier league. The new saints owners will be geared up to get back to the top, and their fans, old and new when asked, I would place money on it would prefer to be watching top league football week in week out.

While we are only making up the numbers you should atleast try and be gratefull for the fact, and for a team making up the numbers we didn't half take some points of the big teams last season. It isn't perfect, but I'll take it over playing at the stadium MK anyday.

Your entitled to your opinion patrick, but suggesting relegation would provide us more entertainment does not wash with me.

Of course this is entirely your opinion. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. But i would say the PL has changed considerably in the 4-5 years. I just feel the top clubs are so far ahead, everyone else (including some of the recently heavily invested clubs) resort to negative tactics to get points where they can. I'm not saying thats wrong, but its detrimental to the league as a spectacle.

I am sure 99% of saints fans and other relegated sides would prefer to be in the top flight. No doubt about it. Maybe i was rash in my comments about relegation. I certainly wouldn't wish it upon us as we stand because it would ruin us. But the idea of supporting Rovers further down the league system is not one which daunts me. I just feel as if life in the PL is just a little predictable for us. The fututre seems to offer more of the same too. Its like knowing that every year you're going to reach the cup final. But also knowing despite this, every year your going to lose. In the end it becomes pointless. For me the best years as a Rovers fan were the title winning years and the promotion years. Sounds obvious i know. But its not because of the glory, its because of the hope. Of being involved in something where every game and every point matters. The aim of either winning the league or getting promotion. As we stand we simply aim to tread water. I know it sounds unappretiative, but thats not what being a football fan is about.

If this takeover materialises it will almost certainly not enable us to win the league anyway. It may help give us a fighting chance against other sides who have been invested in. I know this is old fashioned and out dated. But i really don't want to be owned by an Indian or Thai consortium. I don't want to sell our soul to compete in a league which is the football equivalent of TV's 'The Swan'. I'd sooner see us travel to MK Dons or wherever. I'd sooner we weren't paying these football mercenaries tens of thousands of pounds to talk a good game.

I apologise for clearly getting your back up over this.

[philipl]

I think there are some seriously deluded people on here.

Since Jack died we have

Won one Cup

Appeared in 5 other semi-finals

Been in Europe four times

And in the last five years are one of seven clubs (the others are Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton) who have been monopolising places in the top half of the biggest, most viewed and most successful League in the world.

On top of that, John Williams monumentally screwed up and appointed Ince yet even with that total mess up, Rovers survived in the top flight to bounce back with another semi-final and 10th place finish this season.

This is a mind boggling achievement for an impoverished hamlet like Blackburn.

The Trust model looks like it is working from where I am sitting.

[BuckyRover]

I agree. I do not want a takeover.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

impoverished hamlet like Blackburn.

Credibility out of the window for me with that. Incredibly daft and insulting comment imo.

[2k.]

Credibility out of the window for me with that. Incredibly daft and insulting comment imo.

ok, name a smaller town in the premier league (bar Blackpool)....? it's very apt.

[old darwen blue]

ok, name a smaller town in the premier league (bar Blackpool)....? it's very apt.

Apparently the population of Blackpool is higher than B w D

link

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pyramids/pages/00ey.asp

Personally I love being the underdog because when we win it is so much more satisfying.

THE MOST SUCCESSFULL TOWN CLUB IN PREMIER LEAGUE HISTORY

[jodrell]

ok, name a smaller town in the premier league (bar Blackpool)....? it's very apt.

From Wiki

At the time of the UK Government's 2001 census, Blackburn had a population of 105,085,[1] whilst the wider borough of Blackburn with Darwen had a population of 137,470.[3]

Blackpool is the fourth most densely populated local authority district of England & Wales outside Greater London.[2] it has a population of 142,900, making it the fourth-largest settlement in North West England behind Manchester, Liverpool and Warrington

[Tris]

And thats why I've been responding negatively to those who say "stick with the Trust". That's only any good if they invested in the club which clearly they have ceased to do.Continue down that road and we WILL be relegated. Common-sense not "scare-mongering" Tris.

I'll tell you what will relegate the club.

"Investors" coming in. They will be looking to make money - end of story. Be that in the short, medium, or long term.

The club already uses TV revenue to chase wage inflation - which helps maintain our status. Some of the next TV increase appears to have already been spent on current wages.

So how are "investors" going to make money in the short term, without diminishing what is spent on wages? Maybe double ticket prices - as that's the only other major income stream. Won't that go down well with the fans?

So maybe keep the £209 Season Tix and instead have a drastic cut in wages for short term financial return on the back of the TV money. Cut top wages = goodbye Samba, goodbye Givet, goodbye Salgado, goodbye Robinson ... that will eventually lead to ... relegation.

In the longer term, the only way to make money out of BRFC would be to increase the value of the club. Not many ways to do that - drag the club into the Champions League places on a regular basis is one (cost 100s of millions, see Man City) ... construct on Ewood and / or Brockhall is another ... increase revenue from the existing fan base is the only other.

And if someone comes in, and does increase the value of the club to sell it on - what is the next buyer going to want to do?? ---->> Increase the value of the club again!! How?? Can't you understand that this barmy model just doesn't work?? Look at Porstmouth for crying out loud.

Your £15 million quid into a transfer pot isn't going to help in the slightest, because whoever puts in the £15 million is going to want it back with interest. And it's only going to buy one Steven Fletcher and less than a half of Joe Cole.

If new owners don't follow the curve and use TV money to pay wages, the club will drop down the league. The only other place they can come for cash is ticket revenue. The current owners have allowed the current management to perform miracles on price and attendance, and you want to throw all that away for a minor boost to the trasfer kitty.

Thankfully none of the dreadful scenarios above are being played out under the current ownership. They recognise they can't throw money at Rovers but the Trust sure as hell won't let Rovers be destroyed by "investors" looking for profit.

There is no profit to be made from owning this football club, playing in this crazy league. It really is that simple.

[thenodrog]

The PL has become a stage for bronzed, well groomed, actors. Players who dare attempt a blood curdling challenge are chastised.

Blood curdling challenges? It's the blood curdling screams when they are tackled that leads to any chastisement. Bloody great puffs!

Credibility out of the window for me with that. Incredibly daft and insulting comment imo.

You need to get out more deryck.

[thenodrog]

So how are "investors" going to make money in the short term, without diminishing what is spent on wages? Maybe double ticket prices - as that's the only other major income stream. Won't that go down well with the fans?

So maybe keep the £209 Season Tix and instead have a drastic cut in wages for short term financial return on the back of the TV money.

Indeed Tris. Regarding takeovers and the stupidly named and oft repeated term 'football investment' some people should be very careful what they wish for.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8729510.stm

Liverpool have defended a 7% season ticket price increase, saying there is "no difference in real terms" because of a rise in inflation and VAT.

A Kop seat booked online will cost £680 with the main stand priced at £732.

"Our prices remain extraordinarily competitive, particularly compared with other clubs in the top half of the table," said a Liverpool spokesman. "[/size]

For all you moaners thats 500 quid EXTRA to watch a club 3 places above us!!! I think the club spokesman must be either Stan Boardman or Jimmy Tarbuck.

alternatively another good article......

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article7056430.ece

"United supporters' frustration with the Malcolm Glazer and his sons has been exacerbated by huge ticket price increases, with the average season-ticket price going up from £487 pre-takeover to £722 this year. "

Read em and weep folks. Then thank your lucky stars for the current regime.

[Steve Moss]

The Trust model looks like it is working from where I am sitting.

I agree. Frankly, I don't see a sale (other than to a fan who hit the lottery) being a long term positive for the club. Long may the Trust, and their sound financial model, run the Rovers.

[Paul]

There is no profit to be made from owning this football club, playing in this crazy league. It really is that simple.

Exactly and this is why fans should question long and hard if "investment" from a new owner is what we really want. Like Tris I cannot see how Rovers can be a profitable investment. As thenodrog says there is no such thing as "investing in football," and while I don't mean to be rude anyone who uses the term does not understand the meaning of the word if applying it to a football club, especially any small town club.

Please try to think this through if you had £25m available plus whatever is needed to satisfy the Trust's demands would you put it into Rovers? Try to think clearly about this. You have plenty of money, not a care in the world, would you really risk chucking it into Blackburn Rovers when the local Building Society would give you a better return? Ask Mike Ashley how much Newcastle United cost him? The last place I'd put my money would be Ewood. It's like going to the races, only take as much as you are prepared to lose.

I cannot speak knowledgeably about past owners, by which I mean pre-Jack Walker, but the common denominator must surely have been a desire to see Rovers thrive and survive. I have yet to read any logical discussion on how "investment" by Thai, Arabian, Indian, American or any other consortium fulfills this criteria. Any new owner will be here solely to earn money, either directly or through some perceived benefit in a "new" market they believe exists. If or when it doesn't work the desire will simply be to off load the club to the next bunch of mugs, sorry "investors."

If we are sold, and look how long it has taken the Trust to find an investor, imagine how long it would take the new owners to sell on the club if their grand plan had failed? Imagine the limbo state the club could be left in for years if this occurred. Investing in football clubs is a lunacy and this must lead to a serious questioning of those who wish to do so. What is their motivation?

Ultimately all of this is media-driven, in the very broadest sense. The media all look directly to earn money from the support, the investors are looking to earn money via the media exposure. Individuals in the media earn their salaries through more and more meaningless reporting. This is not what football used to be, we are being exploited at every turn, taken for a ride, be aware of this.

To be convinced I would like those in favour of a sale to explain their vision of how the club will survive if the investment fails. Please don't include all the usual arguements about relegation, the Trust's failure etc, etc. Simply tell me this if a new owner is found and the new scheme fails after a reasonable period, say 3-5 years, what will happen? What is plan B after we've spent £15m a season for five years (that's £75m of new debt) on Joe Cole's left leg? The problem is simply there is no Plan B, these investors could potentially break the club, destroying years of hard work by the existing management and owners.

The ultimate option for a failed or failing business is this - shut it down. Have a drive round Blackburn to prove this. Cut your losses and run. I wonder how long before this happens to a PL or other club? Sell the players, sell Brockhall, develop Ewood and get your money back. The future's bright.

[philipl]

Serious suggestion here.

Rovers to take out a one-off prominent advert in the Manchester and Liverpool papers extolling our season ticket prices.

The sods from those clubs have not been backwards in advertising in the LT in the past so let them have it back.

[Bobby G]

Do you think that it would bring us extra season ticket holders? I think its well documented that we offer the lowest in the league.

[RovertheHill]

I said this years ago when we were last going round this debate. There are potentially only 3 types of buyer for a football club these days

Very rich fan (or fans) (e.g. Uncle Jack)

Very rich sugar daddy (e.g. Abramovich/Man City owners)

Investor (e.g. Investors)

We've had the first and two people like Uncle Jack don't come along twice in a lifetime. Tris is right about the third - if you want to make money with a football club you don't choose Rovers, especially when the liklihood is we are at the top of, or near the top of, the roller coaster - and the only way now is down (for the whole of English football). Which leaves the third - and they WILL get bored at some point.

What do you do?

[Bobby G]

Possibly on the spot.

I have always been in favor of a take-over and I still am, but sometimes when you see things getting so close to what you THOUGHT you wanted under all circumstances you reassess and think to yourself maybe its better in CERTAIN circumstances, especially with the experience of many other English clubs over the last 2-3 years.