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[Archived] Rovers Might Have Been Sold?


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and my question to Maj, about how the trust currently support us financially does still need an answer. Access to relatively cheap loans is one of the ways, but is that it?

Is access to ridiculously cheap loans and ridiculous terms not enough for you? What bank would give us the terms that the trust are? What bank would turn round and be understanding over paying things back, if ever.

What exactly do you expect from them, free money each year? A 10 million kitty for players? This season we got an extra 8 million from the TV deal where's that gone? They cannot keep throwing money at the club because 10 million now will need to be covered by them again in the future. No matter what they do they end up moving the club away from being just about self sufficient to being dependent again, unattractive to a buyer.

If I got a 5 million loan that was basically 5 million back over some silly period of time, I'd be dancing round the garden for days, thinking result.

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Had you not noticed 47er we cant get rid of poor players never mind make money out of them. The only money we can make from transfers is from selling the best ones.

Imagine a group of new owners coming in all bright eyed and bushy tailed, they've given the Walkers their money and positively stretched themselves by sanctioning a similar amount for new players. They come in and a few make weights in the squad are despatched for buttons.

The team performs poorly and finds themselves in the relegation spots so what happens then? The new group sees cracks develop in the performances and the finaces and so pull back funding. We can sell players only in a window and only if they agree to a move so like the Grella situation there's a huge loss in store..... maybe you could use WHU or Portsmouth as an example here.

Anyway what happens next in your opinion?

Still what do I know I've still not got over selling Fred Pickering to Everton the mersey millionaires.

If the squad is stronger supernumeries would be more attractive to other clubs would they not? And I've no intention of commenting on your worst nightmare which is in your fertile head and nowhere else.

On the subject of Randy Lerner....no, the clock is not ticking for Villa.Lerner has loads of alternatives open to him:

He can extend the loan period

He can commute loans to new stock (as Jack did)

He can write the debt off

He can do a combination of the above

Owners prefer loans to gifts because of the tax advantages.

One thing he is not going to do is foreclose on his own club!

He can reduce the wage bill.

He can withdraw funding for transfers

He can reduce the various budgets

He can sell the best players

He can take money out

You assume he'll do the decent thing, who's to say he wouldn't do something else. You know as much about the man as I do, the square route of bugger all. If his back was against the wall, you never know.

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He can reduce the wage bill.

He can withdraw funding for transfers

He can reduce the various budgets

He can sell the best players

He can take money out

You assume he'll do the decent thing, who's to say he wouldn't do something else. You know as much about the man as I do, the square route of bugger all. If his back was against the wall, you never know.

And he could stop funding the club, like the Trust.

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And he could stop funding the club, like the Trust.

The trust may not fund huge transfer fee's but they play a part in keeping our club self sufficient and financially stable, something that many clubs in the top flight can not say. The trust stick to the guidelines set by Jack Walker. Whether any of us agree or not, they have no reason to go beyond the guidelines set out.

I feel there are a lot of fans that need to wake up and realise that we will never have anywhere near the buying power that we had in the 1990's. Our club is the best value for money in all of the leagues, this will be our 10th season in the top flight and we are slowly and steadily improving under a good management team and a board who has the clubs best interest at heart.

Blackburn Rovers, a traditional club with a good history, stable financial structure, a club that looks after the fans, subsidises season tickets, is well established in the top flight, and has a promising season ahead. How many other clubs can boast all these facts?

I am extremely proud to be a Rovers season ticket holder.

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The trust may not fund huge transfer fee's but they play a part in keeping our club self sufficient and financially stable, something that many clubs in the top flight can not say. The trust stick to the guidelines set by Jack Walker. Whether any of us agree or not, they have no reason to go beyond the guidelines set out.

I feel there are a lot of fans that need to wake up and realise that we will never have anywhere near the buying power that we had in the 1990's. Our club is the best value for money in all of the leagues, this will be our 10th season in the top flight and we are slowly and steadily improving under a good management team and a board who has the clubs best interest at heart.

Blackburn Rovers, a traditional club with a good history, stable financial structure, a club that looks after the fans, subsidises season tickets, is well established in the top flight, and has a promising season ahead. How many other clubs can boast all these facts?

I am extremely proud to be a Rovers season ticket holder.

As are we all but the point nobody can get past is the Trust still want to sell us. They don't want to offload us so desperately that they take the first potential buyer without doing very careful checks through Rothschilds, BUT they still WANT to sell.

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As are we all but the point nobody can get past is the Trust still want to sell us. They don't want to offload us so desperately that they take the first potential buyer without doing very careful checks through Rothschilds, BUT they still WANT to sell.

My assumption is that they don't have the passion for the club that Jack had, or maybe some do have the passion but not the finances to take us forward therefore it's in everybody's best interest to sell.

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As are we all but the point nobody can get past is the Trust still want to sell us. They don't want to offload us so desperately that they take the first potential buyer without doing very careful checks through Rothschilds, BUT they still WANT to sell.

Another point never raised by the 'stick with the Trust' brigade was in the club's last annual report where the Chairman states in print that a sale would be best for all concerned.

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Is access to ridiculously cheap loans and ridiculous terms not enough for you? What bank would give us the terms that the trust are? What bank would turn round and be understanding over paying things back, if ever.

What exactly do you expect from them, free money each year? A 10 million kitty for players? This season we got an extra 8 million from the TV deal where's that gone? They cannot keep throwing money at the club because 10 million now will need to be covered by them again in the future. No matter what they do they end up moving the club away from being just about self sufficient to being dependent again, unattractive to a buyer.

If I got a 5 million loan that was basically 5 million back over some silly period of time, I'd be dancing round the garden for days, thinking result.

You're not understanding what I'm saying to you Maj. I'm not expecting anything from them, but just asking you again, how are the trustees supporting the club financially? You said they were, so it's a valid question - what are the terms of the "ridiculously cheap loans"? How are they supporting us financially?

I'm questioning your stance that we are being looked after, by the trustees, financially. Are cheap loans your only reason to stick with the trustees?

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The trust are still providing us with dollar 47er, loans and our 91% wage budget do not suggest that they take a penny for anything.

The Trust may want to sell us but its the why you all have wrong. Everyone seems to be saying they want rid. I believe their actions show they want the club to progress beyond what it is. They tried selling us when they where funding us, no-one showed an interest at all. So they go about making the club a self sufficient one, again no real interest. Then they lower the price, some interest.

They want to sell so the dream can carry on, they cannot afford to fund the club long term in the manner we need now. That's not want rid, that's wanting the best for the club.

All the checks the lack of a quick sale do not point in the direction of wanting rid. They point in the direction of people who feel they cannot help the club long term and are trying everything they can think of to make the club an attractive option to someone who can.

The thoroughness of the search indicates people who do not want to see their fathers/brothers/etc dream go down the pan and that they are keen to ensure that it can become more than it is as he would have wanted.

People are not saying stick with the trust, they are sticking up for the trust. Short memories, frustration seem to have made many forget all the good they have done and continue to do.

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People are not saying stick with the trust, they are sticking up for the trust. Short memories, frustration seem to have made many forget all the good they have done and continue to do.

That's totally untrue Maj.

Firstly, absolutely no-one has forgotten what JW did for Rovers. The trustees have had to legally carry out his wishes since, and I'm sure that's fully appreciated as well.

Secondly, some, - no many people have said they wish to stick as they are, with the club being run under the umbrella of the trustees, rather than be sold to investors. There are loads of posts saying this, and this is where the debate stems from.

I'll tell you what, my position is crystal clear. John Williams and the trustees have said the club needs to look for fresh investment, that's the position we are in, and that's what we must do.

What do people who object to being sold suggest the club does? - Maj, Theno etc, etc?

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The trust are still providing us with dollar 47er, loans and our 91% wage budget do not suggest that they take a penny for anything.

The Trust may want to sell us but its the why you all have wrong. Everyone seems to be saying they want rid. I believe their actions show they want the club to progress beyond what it is. They tried selling us when they where funding us, no-one showed an interest at all. So they go about making the club a self sufficient one, again no real interest. Then they lower the price, some interest.

They want to sell so the dream can carry on, they cannot afford to fund the club long term in the manner we need now. That's not want rid, that's wanting the best for the club.

All the checks the lack of a quick sale do not point in the direction of wanting rid. They point in the direction of people who feel they cannot help the club long term and are trying everything they can think of to make the club an attractive option to someone who can.

The thoroughness of the search indicates people who do not want to see their fathers/brothers/etc dream go down the pan and that they are keen to ensure that it can become more than it is as he would have wanted.

People are not saying stick with the trust, they are sticking up for the trust. Short memories, frustration seem to have made many forget all the good they have done and continue to do.

You were going OK till the last sentence. Some/many ARE saying "stick with the Trust". I could even name a few ! You should re-read some of this thread.

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You're not understanding what I'm saying to you Maj. I'm not expecting anything from them, but just asking you again, how are the trustees supporting the club financially? You said they were, so it's a valid question - what are the terms of the "ridiculously cheap loans"? How are they supporting us financially?

I'm questioning your stance that we are being looked after, by the trustees, financially. Are cheap loans your only reason to stick with the trustees?

I'm not saying stick with them, I'm sticking up for them.

A loan is financial support, and if the terms are better than a banks (which they must be or we would have gone to the bank) that's great for us. The fact they own the club means they will be flexible and understanding over repayments and they will be favourable to the club as they always have been (did they not convert loans to shares to help us out?).

If I'm not understanding what your asking Den, then perhaps you could explain what you mean by support? Because to my mind it has a very broad definition and comes in many forms. If I have a mate who owes me money and he's having financial issues and I say don't worry about it or next month, to me that's support. If I say to him just give me £20 as opposed to £50 that's support to me. If a mate wants to buy something of me and he really wants it but can't really afford, I say we can work something out, again to me that's support. For me support is not just have a tenner mate.

I'm sorry if I'm ranting Den, but I cannot believe people are being so critical of a group of people who have done nothing but help us out.

Their actions over the sale of our club point in the direction of a group of people looking out for the best interests of our club, nothing else.

As I said I'm not saying stick with them, I'm sticking up for them and not forgetting we all owe them some serious thanks for being what we are today, and where we are.

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You were going OK till the last sentence. Some/many ARE saying "stick with the Trust". I could even name a few ! You should re-read some of this thread.

People by definition is not an encompassing word, you are grouping everyone together and making assumptions that I stand with them.

I am not saying stick with them. I am sticking up for the trust, how many times do I have to say it.

Unluckymorten, said something very similar to me, so that's two IE people.

PS if you disregard what I wrote previously due to your interpretation of one sentence, well what do you say to that. One line and the rest is rubbish???

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Is there any way to keep this topic just open to updates relating to the current Indian bid?

Seems to be getting sidetracked into a never ending debate about the Trust

Why not bring back Vinjay <_<

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Is there any way to keep this topic just open to updates relating to the current Indian bid?

Seems to be getting sidetracked into a never ending debate about the Trust

Why not bring back Vinjay <_<

I'm sure we're all entitled to our opinions of how the trust go about the sales, the trusts reason for sale and who we should sell out to. No doubt any progress made with regards to the take over will appear here in good time.

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People by definition is not an encompassing word, you are grouping everyone together and making assumptions that I stand with them.

I am not saying stick with them. I am sticking up for the trust, how many times do I have to say it.

Unluckymorten, said something very similar to me, so that's two IE people.

PS if you disregard what I wrote previously due to your interpretation of one sentence, well what do you say to that. One line and the rest is rubbish???

Don't get hysterical. I'm not making any of the assumptions you are linking to me.. You said "PEOPLE are not saying stick with the Trust" and I am saying that is not open to interpretation and is demonstrably wrong. They are.

I'm sticking up for the Trust too. They want to sell and I support them in their endeavours.

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We'd like to be able to debate the potential take over by the Indian group but since we've heard nothing new in over a week now, there's nothing really to debate. And, whilst majiball and some others may want to stick up for the trust, there are plenty saying better the devil you know and stick with the Trust and that's what we have no choice about. We can be as grateful as we like but the idea of keeping them as owners is not viable because they do not wish to continue supporting us even at the level they have over the last few years and our chairman has said we need investment. We need new ownership and the sooner we can find it, whilst being as careful as we can be to make sure it's in the best interests of the club (there are no absolute guarantees of course, but there is no guarantee that if we don't get a takeover we cna carry on as we are anyway) the better for allconcerned. The club needs to move on and can't whilst we effectively have owners who, whilst they will not let us sink, do not want to carry on bailing us out if necessary.

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I say stick up for the trust too.

I am very concerned about any new "investor" and so place my trust in the late Jack Walker's trustees, to besides following the wishes of the beneficiaries (if this is what they want to happen), but to also look after the long term position of BFRC. I also place my trust in our Board to continue their excellent work.

I get sick and fed up of comments such as "where is all our transfer budget?" and "why can club x afford such a player?". Our owners have taken £nil and we get great value for money from the Board.

The bottom line is that all the money goes to the players, the football management team and their agents.

As for Bolton,(Coyle) or any other EPL club with an "investor", fans suggesting that their owner has left their club in a better financial position, well come back when they capitalise the debt! I.e. transfer the loans into shares.

Note - term "investor", banded around quite a bit, yet does everyone fully understand and appreciate the definition?

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I say stick up for the trust too.

I am very concerned about any new "investor" and so place my trust in the late Jack Walker's trustees, to besides following the wishes of the beneficiaries (if this is what they want to happen), but to also look after the long term position of BFRC. I also place my trust in our Board to continue their excellent work.

I get sick and fed up of comments such as "where is all our transfer budget?" and "why can club x afford such a player?". Our owners have taken £nil and we get great value for money from the Board.

The bottom line is that all the money goes to the players, the football management team and their agents.

As for Bolton,(Coyle) or any other EPL club with an "investor", fans suggesting that their owner has left their club in a better financial position, well come back when they capitalise the debt! I.e. transfer the loans into shares.

Note - term "investor", banded around quite a bit, yet does everyone fully understand and appreciate the definition?

Good call. That is why it is so difficult for us to find an investor. Whoever comes in will be here to make money, not necessarily to throw money at players.

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Don't get hysterical. I'm not making any of the assumptions you are linking to me.. You said "PEOPLE are not saying stick with the Trust" and I am saying that is not open to interpretation and is demonstrably wrong. They are.

Put it back in the context I've pointed out.

I was speaking about myself and the others who are of the same mind in wishing to stick up for the trust and what they have done for the club to date.

Since you say your sticking up for the trust I'd like to draw your attention the the below:

Is this the only style you have? I could argue with all your points but you are just not worth it. The reality is that we desperately need a classy mid-fielder and a striker who can score goals regularly. And, according to John Williams we have 2.25M to spend on both! That says all I need to know about the Trust. Its time has gone and the Trust itself realises it. That's why we are up for sale.

One final point....all the points about the suitability of the Indian bidders will be evaluated by the Trust, not you or me. If the Trust is as wonderful as you say, then you can rely on it to make the right decision can't you? So if the Trust approves the sale of our club to Shah you will be right behind the decision....yes?

Hardly flattering towards them.

You have no better ones :rolleyes:What you describe as a business plan is simply shutting the club down. The Trust ought to be able to sort out rubbish like that. After all it could go that route itself. Why let someone else get easy profits? You're not thinking.

Go back and read Gallacher's comments.

See above.

And he could stop funding the club, like the Trust.

Ditto.

I'm sticking up for the Trust too. They want to sell and I support them in their endeavours.

And then you claim to be sticking up for them? :blink: And I'm the hysterical one?

Iamrover wrote a great post about the trust you should re-read it as opposed to just dismissing it out of hand as you did. Jack wanted the club to be able to stand on its own to feet and for the most part it does, dream realised.

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Good because that wasn't what i said anyway. I said they want not to have to bother. Obviously they are currently bothering but they want not to have to. They want someone else to take on the running of the club and be free of the responsibility. That much has been obvious for years.

Ok if I've taken it the wrong way I apologise. I just don't think bothering is the right term, they can't afford it and have to provide for the rest of the trust.

That's totally untrue Maj.

Firstly, absolutely no-one has forgotten what JW did for Rovers. The trustees have had to legally carry out his wishes since, and I'm sure that's fully appreciated as well.

Secondly, some, - no many people have said they wish to stick as they are, with the club being run under the umbrella of the trustees, rather than be sold to investors. There are loads of posts saying this, and this is where the debate stems from.

I'll tell you what, my position is crystal clear. John Williams and the trustees have said the club needs to look for fresh investment, that's the position we are in, and that's what we must do.

What do people who object to being sold suggest the club does? - Maj, Theno etc, etc?

Hopefully my posts since this one have made my position clearer, if not let me know.

I would disagree with the part in bold, given some of the terms used to berate the trust in this thread and criticising them for not providing us with more money for players.

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Hopefully my posts since this one have made my position clearer, if not let me know.

You have made it clearer Maj and I accept that.

I would disagree with the part in bold, given some of the terms used to berate the trust in this thread and criticising them for not providing us with more money for players.

Plenty of people think that what's happening now as regarding the trust withdrawing virtually all funding, isn't what Jack intended. You could call it criticism, I would call it an opinion. Jack Walker and the trustees have been brilliant for Rovers and even now they will do their best to find the right buyer, I'm sure.

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You have made it clearer Maj and I accept that.

Plenty of people think that what's happening now as regarding the trust withdrawing virtually all funding, isn't what Jack intended. You could call it criticism, I would call it an opinion. Jack Walker and the trustees have been brilliant for Rovers and even now they will do their best to find the right buyer, I'm sure.

Well somebody has been paying Rothschild's for the past 4 years to find one :D

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. . . I'm not expecting anything from them, but just asking you again, how are the trustees supporting the club financially? . . .

The major answer I can think of is that they don't demand a return on the asset that is Blackburn Rovers. Zero costs of ownership, while keeping us comparatively debt free, is a huge financial benefit.

My personal position is that it is in the best interests of the club that we stick with the Trust, until the Trust confirms that it has a buyer with the will and resources to move the Rovers on to bigger and better things. I trust the Trust won't sell until it thinks they have such a buyer.

Whether the current crop of buyers fit the bill, I don't know but we'll find out. I am, however, hopeful that the Indians will work out as at least they have a plan (i.e. expanding into the Indian market, both locally and abroad). Now whether the plan is a good one, or whether it reflects their true intentions, I haven't a clue. I suspect that JW and the Trust will be looking at them under a microscope to determine whether they are the real deal or a just another bunch of fast talking asset strippers.

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