[Archived] Birmingham Preview

[Pinch]

Delighted with the result and Dunn's performance. A deserved MOTM - let's hope he's still got something left in the engine for Sunday.

Salgado has impressed me too, this last 2 games. He's recovered well from that nightmare against Spurs & I like his attitude & workrate.

Another solid display from Jones, who I think deserves to start against the Dingles. He's playing it sensible and safe and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that in a central defender.

Nzonzi has had a great first season & is another one who gives his all for the cause. He looks like he could do with developing his strength and there isnt a great deal of creativity to his passing but he is very good in the air and breaks it down well when needed.

Brown wasnt as impressive at the game as the Sky commentators seemed to think. Too many flaps and didnt organise his wall for the Brum goal. Get well soon, Robbo!

Roberts did the holding & lay-off role much better than Kalinic. A less stubborn manager would put them both on together but that's Sam for you.

All of which brings me to our dear old friend Keith Andrews. How this joke of a player continues to start games is beyond me. He runs like a fairy and is about as effective as one in our midfield. His role in the Brum goal, breaking off the wall & dodging out of the way of the ball, was unforgiveable. I am growing to despise everything about him and will crack open the champagne come the day we sell him. Absolutely anyone would be preferable to him. Even ten men.

Allardyce is a little miffed with those Rovers fans who appeal in vain for him to configure his team in an attack-minded 4-4-2 formation. "It is an antiquated system," he snorted. "It doesn't work in the Premier League any more."

Guardian Match Report

Yeah, so I don't think we'll see two up front any time soon...at least not in a 4-4-2.

[Steve Moss]

Dodgy performance. Step back from 2nd half v Chelsea. Up in the air too much. I can't fathom just what BSF is trying to achieve tactically apart from being negative.

He's apparently trying to earn points. Which he has done a workmanlike job over this season. And I expect he'll do an even better job next.

Delighted with the result and Dunn's performance. A deserved MOTM - let's hope he's still got something left in the engine for Sunday.

Salgado has impressed me too, this last 2 games. He's recovered well from that nightmare against Spurs & I like his attitude & workrate.

Agreed. Salgado is becoming my favorite player.

Allardyce is a little miffed with those Rovers fans who appeal in vain for him to configure his team in an attack-minded 4-4-2 formation. "It is an antiquated system," he snorted. "It doesn't work in the Premier League any more."

Guardian Match Report

He's right. Systems change. One comes in, dominates for awhile, then some clever person works out its weaknesses. 4-4-2 is a formation to be used in limited circumstances.

[booth]

He's right. Systems change. One comes in, dominates for awhile, then some clever person works out its weaknesses. 4-4-2 is a formation to be used in limited circumstances.

I keep hearing this, perhaps I'm old fashioned and don't understand these new fangled things. Can someone explain what's so wrong with 4-4-2? Preferably someone who actually goes and watches the games.

[Steve Moss]

I keep hearing this, perhaps I'm old fashioned and don't understand these new fangled things. Can someone explain what's so wrong with 4-4-2? Preferably someone who actually goes and watches the games.

I'm certainly no expert. My "in person" view of the game has been limited to U19 and less, in addition to high school. At least until the first part of this month, where I was able to attend Rochdale v. Lincoln, Everton v. Hull and Spurs v. Rovers. Other than that, my observations are strictly limited to television.

If you want an in depth analysis, I'd suggest "Inverting the Pyramid, the History of Football Tactics" by Jonathan Wilson. In particular, chapter 17 which discusses all the various forms, permutations and how they relate to one another. For example, the author quotes SAF as stating that he has never used the 4-4-2, stating that he always has used split forwards. (page 345). It goes on to quote Mourinho as stating that the system is not really what matters, what matter is whether each player in the team is multi-functional. Strikers aren't mere strikers, they have to defend, etc. (page 349). Per the author, the future is 'universality'. (page 352).

Again, I'm no expert. But I think this is were Sam is trying to take the Rovers. Defenders who can become strikers, and strikers who can defend, with everyone doing everything in between. How a team lines up in its formation is something which I think has more to do with a managers determination of zones and the variable individual match ups within them. Saying the 4-4-2 is the best formation is simplistic, in my very inexpert opinion.

[Iceman]

We got 3 points, end of. Roll on the Dingles, and another 3 points. Pretty, ugly, hoofball, call it whatever you like, we got the 3 points and on our way to safety. If we played pretty football and got relegated, then you would have cried.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Dodgy performance. Step back from 2nd half v Chelsea. Up in the air too much. I can't fathom just what BSF is trying to achieve tactically apart from being negative.

Brown. Like him but was is positioning poor for their goal. Rooted to the line?

Selgado. I think he is rubbish, him and Chorluka. Get noticed for his theatatrics rather than ability.

Ollson. Improving. His overlaps have provided goals and chances.

Jones. Next John Terry hopefully. Young though.

Samba. Possible MOM. Top class and an entertainer with those telescopic legs.

Pedersen. Changed player with free role. Covers more ground than other players. Put a shift in.

Diouf. Liability. Does not track back, little creativity. Builds his reputation atone theatrics and conning his way through games.

Dunn. Tiring but class.

NZonzi. Class above this team. Can't wait to see him next season.

Andrews. The opposite. The team are a class above Andrews. Awful tonight.

Kalinic. Much improved. Looking like a £4m striker, just £2m to go now.

Sub Roberts. Contractual bonus for free kicks gained. Klattenburg having none of it. Ball bounced of his shins endlessly. Useless but entertaining.

Hoilet the toilet. Blind alleys and no end product. Not a team player either.

Emerton. Workmanlike in his short cameo.

Did you see the game Graham?

[Montfort]

Delighted with the result and getting 38 points. After an early goal you would hope that we could take control, make them chase the game and push on to a comfortable win. No such luck. The Birmingham equaliser was depressing in its inevitability. No team can give away so much posession ( and free kicks ) and expect to survive. Sky text said that Birmingham had 60 % of the possession and at one stage this must have been greater. Blackburn did well to restrict them to so few clear cut chances in the circumstances. But far too much header football and Rugby up and unders.

After Birmingham had equalised we had our best spell. Fantastic goal by Dunn. So quick and clever that it was in the back of the net before I and the Birmingham defence realised what had happened.

Thought we finished strongly. Hoilett looked incredible at times when he came on. Birmingham could not stop him. When he learns how to produce the final ball he will be a match winner. Love Salgado and his chase round the pitch. Fantastic save by Brown in the first half and thought generally he looked comfortable.

Some of the people around me clearly dislike Andrews so much that they get as much enjoyment from critising him as they do from abusing Burnley. They were on his case literally all the time no matter what he does good, bad or indifferent. I would like to think that Blackburn fans are better than that.

[brfcs5359]

Did you see the game Graham?

yes is the answer. In the riverside. In the relegation thread i was the only person who said West Ham might go down besides Hull Pompey. I know my football.

Brum were average, like us. Except their ageing and without any quality. Nzonzi's one big weakness is Keity Andrews and his second weakness is Diouf! Other players should watch and learn the basics. He has them all and does things correctly and quickly even when he is crowded out.

I can agree with BFS. 451 or 442 it is still 11 v 11 and so long as we attack and defend with enough bodies it doesn't matter. However we don't. We end up with isolated players up front. BFS is a poor manager and I think i could do better.

Selgado is getting praise but the opposite to Nzonzi inthinknhe had little or nothing in his locker and the savageesque theataricals shouldn't convince any shrewd football fan. Like Diouf all the gestures and huff cover up failings and only appeal to casual football watchers. We had him right in front of us second half and whilst improved you could see he was out of his depth in general.

Roberts was awful. No other word for it except again! Dioif was poorish n general play and hisnfailure tontrack back, largely l caused by a lack of stamina and pace, make him supplementry to our requirements for next season. Andrews is just completely out of his depth. He bottled several tackles besides passing it to Brum on many occasions. He's a worse player than when we signed him when at least then he provided some excelent forward passes if only occasionally.

Brown was on his line. A mistake. He should have been 4 yards out and with a clear view. He did neither and was rooted helpless as the ball went in.

Peds, much criticised by me and on the 'ship out' list played very well. SAMs free role seems to have unburdoned him. He is our fittest player in a league that rewards athletism. Wayward, mecurial, he is improving on last night performance.

Kalinic was up against it but time and again wriggler away and his first touch despite being disposessed was spot on.

Positives

Dunn, Jones, Samba, Nzonzi, Ollson, Kalinic, Pederson, emerton

negatives

Diouf, Andrews, Hoilet, Roberts, selgado, Brown

I'd sell the negative list plus 2 or 3 that didn't feature in a summer clear out

does anyone think Jarvis at Wolves would be a good buy?

[CrazyIvan]

Last night was the worst I have ever seen a 'team' work together ever. The referee and his two assistants were utterly incompetent. Utterly isn't a strong enough word. If 100 is competent and 0 is incompetent, they were -100,000. How an assistant running the line can completely miss the ball crossing the line right next to him not once but at least three times and not see it is beyond understanding. Both assistants did it. It gives me no confidence in the offside decisions they made at all... Clattenburg started out pretty well as a ref. He had his suspension for the financial stuff (does anyone really know what was going on there?) and has come back the sh!ttest referee I've seen, even worse than Uriah Rennie. When we saw who it was we had refereeing us we all thought and said the same thing. We're playing 12 again. We were wrong. We were actually playing 14 last night. Birmingham City could have hacked Dunn in half with a machete and only got a yellow for it. We only had to win the ball and it was a free kick to them... Enough on the most incompetent of incompetent referees and his assistants.

We were poor. We won. That about sums it up. To be honest, we looked fairly knackered after Sunday but so did Brum when we re-took the lead. If it was about style of football, Brum would have won 5 - 0. Fortunately it isn't. Don't get me wrong, we played some decent stuff but it was occasional, we've played much better and lost. Anyone taking this game as a barometer measure of our season is selling us extremely short imo. We've been much better than that recently. As I said, we looked knackered especially at the end of the game. Someone (most likely Abbey) will tell me that professional footballers should be able to play 90 minutes each day and not suffer a drop in performance. I don't think that is the case. Most teams playing games in close succession will suffer and we did but WE WON. We played sh!t and won. That's enough.

[Hughesy]

I personally think Nzonzi's performance have tailed off a bit in recent weeks.

In recent weeks he has...but last night he was much improved. Think Sam commented on him too after the game & Also said he was the player of the season in terms of signing him to the imrpovement he has made. Lets not forget he's only 20

I keep hearing this, perhaps I'm old fashioned and don't understand these new fangled things. Can someone explain what's so wrong with 4-4-2? Preferably someone who actually goes and watches the games.

Well midfield is the key....hence why we often struggle against the big boys...Play 4 in their against 5 and your always going to struggle. 4-5-1, breaking to 4-3-3 is much more dynamic and offers greater threat.

negatives

Hoilet, selgado,

Its Salgado...and why do you put those 2 in last nights negatives? What did either do wrong?

McLeish - It was a foul by Samba & the ball was at least 2 circumferences out of the quadrant

Still doesnt explain the poor defending/ keeping.

[philipl]

Birmingham were excellent tonight and certainly deserved something from the game. They played as a tight unit and pressurised us all over the park but especially 'high up' the pitch. We weren't allowed to settle on the ball and thats why we were forced to resort to 'hoofball'. Credit to Brum rather than any intention by ourselves.

All credit to McLeish who has done a great job with them by injecting professionalism, desire and energy as the league table is reflecting. BUT just like any succesful team when things are going against them they have learned to pressurise the officials and kick opponents. Clattenburg gave a soft free kick from which their goal materialised imo largely cos of the haranguing that he had just received from the Brum players (lead mostly by the wee sweaty swindler.).

Agree 100%

We played as well as we could against a very well organised physical Brum who pressed all over the parkand showed no little skill when they had the ball themselves.

Clattenburg missed two Rovers penalties- an identical foul to the one he had just given for their goal straight after the restart then the mind boggling Carr handball. He saw Carr touch it to give the corner so surely he saw Carr touch it with his arm and with an intentional movement towards a ball dollyed up from about 8 yards away?

But to be honest, that is a mild criticism compared with the fouls he gave against us and the license for dirty play he gave to Brum.

Yes the game was not pretty (but always absorbing, I thought- not boring) but the blame for lack of entertainment lies with the ref rather than Sam on this occasion.

[LeftWinger]

Brown was on his line. A mistake. He should have been 4 yards out and with a clear view.

He probably stands on his line because he's pretty short for a keeper and hasn't got a good leap due to his build. He'd got the wall in the wrong position though. He's giving me nightmares for Sunday - his handling isn't great.

Speaking of keepers - Robinson is a far better keeper than Joe Hart going off last night. Hart couldn't deal with crosses or long thrown ins at all.

[JAL]

He probably stands on his line because he's pretty short for a keeper and hasn't got a good leap due to his build. He'd got the wall in the wrong position though. He's giving me nightmares for Sunday - his handling isn't great.

Speaking of keepers - Robinson is a far better keeper than Joe Hart going off last night. Hart couldn't deal with crosses or long thrown ins at all.

Brown is an accident waiiting to happen on Sunday, he certainly doesnt instill any confidence.

As for Hart, very early to say off last night. He didnt really have much to do except the unstopable Dunny shot and the corner for Dunny's second.

[Exiled_Rover]

He probably stands on his line because he's pretty short for a keeper and hasn't got a good leap due to his build. He'd got the wall in the wrong position though. He's giving me nightmares for Sunday - his handling isn't great.

Speaking of keepers - Robinson is a far better keeper than Joe Hart going off last night. Hart couldn't deal with crosses or long thrown ins at all.

You're joking right? I was thinking I'd love a cheeky bid for Hart in the summer. Does all the basics very well, unlike Robinson.

[philipl]

Hart's positioning was a crucial half a foot wrong for the first (he got a hand on it but not enough) and went completely walk about for the second- the header went straight past where he had gone from. Criminally, he was going out to collect a ball hit straight when simply looking at where Diouf was starting his run up from would have told him it was an in-swinger.

Hart is OK but not more than OK.

[Kelbo]

He probably stands on his line because he's pretty short for a keeper and hasn't got a good leap due to his build. He'd got the wall in the wrong position though. He's giving me nightmares for Sunday - his handling isn't great.

Speaking of keepers - Robinson is a far better keeper than Joe Hart going off last night. Hart couldn't deal with crosses or long thrown ins at all.

It was nothing to do with him being on his line, the wall was badly organised, this must be a coaching fault at Rovers as Brad also had problems from set pieces and Robbo too at times.

[LeftWinger]

You're joking right? I was thinking I'd love a cheeky bid for Hart in the summer. Does all the basics very well, unlike Robinson.

I'm not joking. For the first time all season I thought we looked a huge threats from long throws - because he just didn't want to deal with them. He could have done better with the first goal and although Diouf's corner was a good one - he was nowhere to be seen really.

[den]

I keep hearing this, perhaps I'm old fashioned and don't understand these new fangled things. Can someone explain what's so wrong with 4-4-2? Preferably someone who actually goes and watches the games.

4-4-2 is rigid. If you're getting overrun in midfield, there's very little you can do about it. 4-5-1 gives you options in midfield and going forward.

[Billy Castell]

Does anyone know what that three way hand bag battle between Dunn, Diouf and Salgado was all about?

Good result, and it sets us up nicely for Sunday.

[JC4LAB]

I guess possibly Dunns disallowed goal at the Darwen end just before half time..I think a needless foul by Salgado wiped it out...

[1864roverite]

It astounds me how anyone who has watched the game can say anything positive about andrews performance. He was totally garbage.

I fear for us through the middle if he is on the pitch on Sunday because he causes us to lose shape in the middle.

As for 4-4-2, well we need wingers and width to play such a formation and the widemen have to track back, unfortunateky we no longer have a Ripley or a Wilcox or even a Robbie Slater to do such a job so we must go with the 4-4-1-1.

Having just watched the game again the foul on Dunny is shocking.

and andrews non performance just gets worse.

[Balwer]

Does anyone know what that three way hand bag battle between Dunn, Diouf and Salgado was all about?

Good result, and it sets us up nicely for Sunday.

Commentators seemed to think it was the final play of the first half, when Dunn thought Diouf should have passed inside to him instead of forward to Salgado. Salgado then stood up for Diouf and it turned in to Dunn v Salgado with Diouf intervening. They kissed and made up after Dunny's second though.

[Exiled_Rover]

Hart's positioning was a crucial half a foot wrong for the first (he got a hand on it but not enough) and went completely walk about for the second- the header went straight past where he had gone from. Criminally, he was going out to collect a ball hit straight when simply looking at where Diouf was starting his run up from would have told him it was an in-swinger.

Hart is OK but not more than OK.

He was beaten by the first goal because Dunn took it very early. All credit to Dunn there. The second goal was CRIMINAL defending by whoever was on the post.

[Montfort]

Speaking of keepers - Robinson is a far better keeper than Joe Hart going off last night. Hart couldn't deal with crosses or long thrown ins at all.

Completely agree. What must Robinson be thinking because I think Hart will go to the world cup and Robinson ( even if fully fit ) wont. I dont think many rovers fans would prefer to have Hart to Robinson.

[gumboots]

yes is the answer. In the riverside. In the relegation thread i was the only person who said West Ham might go down besides Hull Pompey. I know my football.

Brum were average, like us. Except their ageing and without any quality. Nzonzi's one big weakness is Keity Andrews and his second weakness is Diouf! Other players should watch and learn the basics. He has them all and does things correctly and quickly even when he is crowded out.

I can agree with BFS. 451 or 442 it is still 11 v 11 and so long as we attack and defend with enough bodies it doesn't matter. However we don't. We end up with isolated players up front. BFS is a poor manager and I think i could do better.

Selgado is getting praise but the opposite to Nzonzi inthinknhe had little or nothing in his locker and the savageesque theataricals shouldn't convince any shrewd football fan. Like Diouf all the gestures and huff cover up failings and only appeal to casual football watchers. We had him right in front of us second half and whilst improved you could see he was out of his depth in general.

Roberts was awful. No other word for it except again! Dioif was poorish n general play and hisnfailure tontrack back, largely l caused by a lack of stamina and pace, make him supplementry to our requirements for next season. Andrews is just completely out of his depth. He bottled several tackles besides passing it to Brum on many occasions. He's a worse player than when we signed him when at least then he provided some excelent forward passes if only occasionally.

Brown was on his line. A mistake. He should have been 4 yards out and with a clear view. He did neither and was rooted helpless as the ball went in.

Peds, much criticised by me and on the 'ship out' list played very well. SAMs free role seems to have unburdoned him. He is our fittest player in a league that rewards athletism. Wayward, mecurial, he is improving on last night performance.

Kalinic was up against it but time and again wriggler away and his first touch despite being disposessed was spot on.

Positives

Dunn, Jones, Samba, Nzonzi, Ollson, Kalinic, Pederson, emerton

negatives

Diouf, Andrews, Hoilet, Roberts, selgado, Brown

I'd sell the negative list plus 2 or 3 that didn't feature in a summer clear out

does anyone think Jarvis at Wolves would be a good buy?

The way Jarvis has been playing recently he'd cost a fortune we don't have. I think we should resign ourselves to seeing little movement in or out, because we don't have any money and players prices are still rising. Eventually they'll level off but until then I think you'll find we keep largely the same squad.