[Archived] Birmingham Preview

[LeChuck]

If Robinson had made the mistake on the corner like Hart did last night we'd be going mental. As it was we had our own incompetent goalkeeper in Jason Brown, who didn't take responsibility for his side of the goal (the wall was covering the other side). He does good things sometimes (example was right at the end), but he's an accident waiting to happen.

Not much to add about the rest of the game really. N'Zonzi, Samba, Salgado, Olsson and Dunn had good games, whereas Diouf, Pedersen and Kalinic didn't. Jones was again very solid, if less spectacular than Sunday. Andrews was okay last night, certainly better than Ferguson and Bowyer. Hoilett looked very bright when he came on, when his final ball improves he'll be a very good player for us.

[Hughesy]

Calamity James, low on confidence

Green - shipping goals

Hart - Decent season & good shot stopper, but not commanding enough

Robbo should not be behind all 3 & neither should Kirkland!

[joey_big_nose]

Tbh Grizfoot makes a point, he does give the ball away too much imo, i dont think hes as good as everyone thinks yet. However i think 4/10 for Diouf is harsh, one of our only players that can make something happen

I thought Diouf was excellent in the second half? Created the goal, held up the ball well. Gone from being a liability to a first choice.

[Amo]

If Robinson had made the mistake on the corner like Hart did last night we'd be going mental. As it was we had our own incompetent goalkeeper in Jason Brown, who didn't take responsibility for his side of the goal (the wall was covering the other side). He does good things sometimes (example was right at the end), but he's an accident waiting to happen.

Brown makes me more jittery than Robinson, but what does Sam do? Bunn is untried at this level and the Burnley game would be a baptism of fire. He could very well rise to the occasion, but I have a feeling Sam will stick with Brown.

[waggy]

It astounds me how anyone who has watched the game can say anything positive about andrews performance. He was totally garbage.

I fear for us through the middle if he is on the pitch on Sunday because he causes us to lose shape in the middle.

As for 4-4-2, well we need wingers and width to play such a formation and the widemen have to track back, unfortunateky we no longer have a Ripley or a Wilcox or even a Robbie Slater to do such a job so we must go with the 4-4-1-1.

Having just watched the game again the foul on Dunny is shocking.

and andrews non performance just gets worse.

are we playing real madrid on sunday,we are playing the bloody dingles.dunny should have gone of after the 2nd goal but worry not the EXPERT knows what he's doing

[Pedderz0912]

PM me your numbers for the lottery. Please

That Salgado rampage at the end was wonderful.

But by god, what an awful game..................

Well what can I say ;-) Just thought hed be up for it - Wish he was taken of 10 mins earlier but suppose if birmingham had equalised Sam would of taken some real stick..

Bring on the dingles 1-3 Kalinic x 2 this time and samba

[LeftWinger]

Sam did the right thing by leaving him on for a bit but when he did eventually take him off I'm sure Dunny understood why.

Yes I'm sure Dunny understood why, when he did take him off - because he couldn't stand up on his own

[RibbleValleyRover]

4-4-2 is rigid. If you're getting overrun in midfield, there's very little you can do about it. 4-5-1 gives you options in midfield and going forward.

I don't see anything wrong with using a 4-5-1 providing you have the players for it. Its all about getting support to that lone striker, you need at least one player in the 5 to link up play with the striker. As soon as the lone striker gets the ball someone needs to be there to receive it.

We seem to have the 4-5-1 working ok in defence, but what we can't get right is the 4-5-1 in attack (or the ability to shift to 4-3-3 in attack). More often than not our lone striker completely isolated and has no support. Our lack of goals shows that we haven't got our attacking right especially from our strikers and the overall lack of chances we have created.

[CrazyIvan]

are we playing real madrid on sunday,we are playing the bloody dingles.dunny should have gone of after the 2nd goal but worry not the EXPERT knows what he's doing

Yes, Waggy, the expert does know what he's doing... I'm bored of your, and a few others, endless Big Sam sniping. It's tiresome.

[Guest Kamy100]

Great that we got the three points last night.

The performance was not pretty, at time Birmingham played us off the park with their passing and movement, but credit to Sam and the team because we kept our shape very well and they couldn't create many goalscoring opportunities, I have noticed that over the last 2 games we have our full backs "tucked" in and close to the centre backs, this makes the play very compact and does not leave many holes through the middle for the opposition to expose.

The big problem that we have is in central midfield. I thought that Andrews did ok last night, he chased and harried but what he can't do is pass the ball effectively. He has lost the crowd, big time, any little mistake that he makes and there are groans of discontent. N'Zonzi has been a superb this season and for a 20 year old his understanding and reading of the game is excellent. However, again when he has the ball often his distribution lets him down, he looks for sideways or backwards passes and that often slows down the game and takes away attacking impetus, if he had someone playing with him who could pass the ball then that would help him. It is important for Sam to sort out the midfield during the summer.

Upfront Kalanic works his socks off, but I am afraid our style of play does not play to his strengths. Roberts was far more effective during the second half yesterday, because of the system that we play, whoever plays upfront their primary function is not to score goals (I know that sounds stupid), but to hold up the ball and link up play, if after doing that they can get into goalscoring positions then that is a bonus, again because of the way that we play it is important that the striker does his job properly in terms of not losing possession and holding up the ball so that midfield can get up and support, if the striker cannot do this then the rest of the team struggles because possession is constantly lost and puts us under pressure.

Still well done to Sam and the team, we have all but secured our place in the Premier League for next season, great achievement considering how little we have spent in the transfer market, the quality/style of football is may not be everyone's cup of tea but you can't argue that it has produced results on a consistent basis.

[DE.]

I don't see anything wrong with using a 4-5-1 providing you have the players for it. Its all about getting support to that lone striker, you need at least one player in the 5 to link up play with the striker. As soon as the lone striker gets the ball someone needs to be there to receive it.

We seem to have the 4-5-1 working ok in defence, but what we can't get right is the 4-5-1 in attack (or the ability to shift to 4-3-3 in attack). More often than not our lone striker completely isolated and has no support. Our lack of goals shows that we haven't got our attacking right especially from our strikers and the overall lack of chances we have created.

I think our style of 4-5-1 is pretty good at home, as evidenced by our fantastic record. Away from home we sit back deeper and as a result we seem to lose the link-up between midfield and attack. I'm hoping against Burnley we'll be a little more adventurous in our play, as man for man we have a far superior team.

[thenodrog]

Allardyce is a little miffed with those Rovers fans who appeal in vain for him to configure his team in an attack-minded 4-4-2 formation. "It is an antiquated system," he snorted. "It doesn't work in the Premier League any more."

Guardian Match Report

Yeah, so I don't think we'll see two up front any time soon...at least not in a 4-4-2.

I don't really think many can argue with that. It's true. The key player is the man in the hole behind the striker. If it's Wayne Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard then it works and it's called 4-4-2 or at worst 4-4-1-1 but if it's somebody who is 20 yards too deep it doesn't and it's called 4-5-1. SA's comments are not even controversial.

btw reviewing Brums goal and

1. It was no free kick as I stated earlier.

and

2. Jerome was offside and interfering and it should have been disallowed. I know it was straight in from the free kick, and it was mighty poor defending but Jerome must have looked to Brown like he'd get a touch on it and knock it in the other corner.

Again, I'm no expert. But I think this is were Sam is trying to take the Rovers. Defenders who can become strikers, and strikers who can defend, with everyone doing everything in between. How a team lines up in its formation is something which I think has more to do with a managers determination of zones and the variable individual match ups within them. Saying the 4-4-2 is the best formation is simplistic, in my very inexpert opinion.

That was referred to as 'Total football' in the 70's. It's origin was in Rinus Michells marvellous Dutch team of 74.

[den]

Good post Kamy. Particularly about the role of the striker.

[Ozz]

Took my camera with me last night.

You can see Mrs Welsby looking at Browns position on the goal line over the wall.

Then works out where to put it for it to go in! Plus Nodrogs point about Jerome putting Brown off seems valid. Plus Keith, NZonzi and Roberts all have no idea where the ball is going!

[den]

Walls don't get worse than that. Has to be down to Brown.

[OscarRaven]

Plus Keith, NZonzi and Roberts all have no idea where the ball is going!

Rubbish, Keith knows exactly where its going. He's turned sideway's and is breathing in, just to make sure it doesn't hit him!

[CrazyIvan]

Rubbish, Keith knows exactly where its going. He's turned sideway's and is breathing in, just to make sure it doesn't hit him!

It was no where near him! Watch it again!

[den]

It was no where near him! Watch it again!

It doesn't matter whether it was, or it wasn't.

You surely can't defend anyone when they back out of the wall and turn their back on a free kick - can you?

[des]

4-5-1 work very well, however you have to play through the midfield and not have lump it forward. time and time again we went for the quick long ball ( which is fine if you play a 4-4-2) and the lone forward had no back up.

yes play a 4-4-1-1 but when you have the ball you have to keep it and not play the quick long ball. If you want to play the quick long ball when a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2 is a must.

Good win for rovers and big sam can now start to plan for next season

[CrazyIvan]

It doesn't matter whether it was, or it wasn't.

You surely can't defend anyone when they back out of the wall and turn their back on a free kick - can you?

I'm not defending him for that. My point is that it wasn't Andrews fault the ball went in the back of the net.

[Majiball]

The position of the wall is wrong, its too central, it needs to cover one of the sides. Also we start with 6 men in the wall (width) if you look at the second photo above its 4 men wide by the time the ball goes past them. The shot wasn't a wicked bent one, it didn't have to go over and was practically passed into the net. You knew it was going in as soon as you saw the camera behind the taker, soft goal to concede.

PS those praising Brown for charging out at the end, well if the brum player had gotten the ball first it would have been 2-2. He's a very lucky fella Samba realised and got there first. Baptism of fire or not, I want to see Bunny in goal on Sunday.

The Silver lining in all of this? People will love Robbo more now.

[tcj_jones]

It was nothing to do with him being on his line, the wall was badly organised, this must be a coaching fault at Rovers as Brad also had problems from set pieces and Robbo too at times.

Building a wall is a fundamental duty for a keeper that I doubt is coached at this level. In fact, I'm not sure it's something that really can be coached. The wall was Brown's fault, so was his positioning. If your wall is supposedly protecting the right side of the goal, then you position yourself centrally or further to the left. From what I can tell, the wall had a big hole in it and wasn't really covering either side of the goal properly. Brown was then too far over to the right, his vision probably blocked by Andrews and Dunn who were a foot away from the others in the wall.

Upfront Kalanic works his socks off, but I am afraid our style of play does not play to his strengths. Roberts was far more effective during the second half yesterday, because of the system that we play, whoever plays upfront their primary function is not to score goals (I know that sounds stupid), but to hold up the ball and link up play, if after doing that they can get into goalscoring positions then that is a bonus, again because of the way that we play it is important that the striker does his job properly in terms of not losing possession and holding up the ball so that midfield can get up and support, if the striker cannot do this then the rest of the team struggles because possession is constantly lost and puts us under pressure.

I didn't see the game last night, but I actually disagree on Kalinic. His ability to hold the ball up and bring others into play and his ability to win flick ons make him a perfect lone striker. The problem lies in the fact that he rarely gets any support. He'll harry, chase, hold the ball, win the flick ons, but there's nobody within 15 yards of him. He can only do so much and eventually loses possession.

It was also Kalinic's backing into the Birmingham defenders which caused the long ball to break to Dunn for his goal. When supported, the balls up to him are effective.

[Tom]

I thought brown did well at the end he got the block in, without him coming out they could have scored he took a calculated risk and we profited from

it. His first half save is as good as any seen at ewood this season for me

[niggit]

I think Brown did well, not the best. He kept trying to move the wall, but never did move much until Roberts dragged them.

[Majiball]

I thought brown did well at the end he got the block in, without him coming out they could have scored he took a calculated risk and we profited from

it. His first half save is as good as any seen at ewood this season for me

Samba was with the man and had him covered, Browns charging out resulted in all three of them on the floor. From then on its a lottery who gets up first, the ball could have gone anywhere. We are lucky Samba rose first and the ball was right in front of him. Because the Brum player was up quickly as well and if the ball had fallen to him there was a free brum player in the middle quick pass and thanks for the point.

If at the initial moment Samba had not been there then great but he was, so he should have stayed where he was so we had a goalkeeper.