[Archived] Diving/Referee Inconsistencies/Rule Changes Etc

[DeadlyDirk]

I thought I'd start a new topic on all of this since although I don't agree with what Olsson did/said he certainly isn't the first guilty party and I'd rather keep that thread for his promising performances this season.

First of all I think that diving in football is completely wrong and needs to be stamped out as quickly as possible, or at least minimalised.

The Issue

Some people have said that diving has always been around in football which I think is true, however it was certainly pretty rare 10-15 years ago. I'm sure there were a few crafty ones back then who tried it but it certainly wasn't as prevalent as it seems to be today. I don't think a weekend goes by in the premiership where there isn't a major talking point about a dive or some penalty decision. In fact there is probably one in almost every game now.

Whether or not you agree diving isn't such a new idea I don't think many will disagree that right now it seems more common than ever before. The problem there being is that if you don't cut it out now then it is likely that it will only continue to get worse.

Why is it an issue?

That's part of the problem for me, to some people it isn't an issue. Some see it simply as another way that football has evolved and we should just accept it and get on with things. I for one though don't want to accept that, I think it's something that probably can't be completely cut out of the game but is something that can certainly be severely cut down.

For me it's quite simple why it's an issue. It's not right and I don't want to see games of football decided by 'conmen'. It was once a beautiful game and while at times it's not what it was we should always try and keen the game played as fairly as possible. It's still a wonderful game and afterall a large reason why we're all on this message board.

I don't see it as an impossible tasked, I feel that if the right changes are made it's something that should be cut out and more importantly can be.

Who's To Blame?

I don't think there is just one reason which has led to the increase in diving, there are many factors which have contributed.

Money, Money, Money

One of the biggest contributors has been the money factor. With so much riding on games these days there will always be people looking for that little shortcut or a way of improving their chances if their is a way of doing so. One game, or one phase of play can be worth anything up to £40 million plus just in the short term, not to mention the knock on effects it can have. Money was always going to change football, it's improved a lot of things but also caused some problems, that's often the way when money comes into play.

The Players

Obviously the people actually taking the dives have to take a large share of the blame. Personally I think it comes down to the individual, some people are prepared to take a dive in certain situations while the likes of Drogba perhaps are keener than others to go down. Then there is the rare old fashioned type who will never take a dive, it's hard to think of a modern example but what about someone like??? Colin Hendy, I can't imagine him ever taking a dive, no matter the situation.

The main reason why diving has increased so much by players is quite simple really, the reward greatly outweighs the risk involved and more importantly they are starting to realise they are getting away with it more and more. If a player dives succesfuly he will probably earn his team a penalty or at least a free kick in a dangerous area. Now given that the majority of penalties are scored that's a pretty big reward. You could also tie in that a lot of games are often tightly contted, even more so in the big games and that one goal can be enough to earn a team a victory. That might just be a relegation 6 pointer, a match to win the title or hell even the World Cup Final itself. What are the negatives if you get caught? A yellow card, nothing too bad is it, especially considering most dives go unpunished anyway, yes of course they are supposed to book the guilty party but most of the time the referee will simply signal no penalty and wave play on. which will lead me nicely on to my next point.

The Referees

In my opinion it's the boys (and girls) holding the whistle who need to stand up and take charge here. Every year we hear about subtle rule changes here and there and how they will be clamping down on this and that. It's usually enforced for a month or so until things go back to normal. (Was this year the respect the referee campaign where only captains and guilty parties talk to the referee or it results in a booking? No I can't remember either....)

Whether it's the Euro's, the Champions League or the Premiership over the last couple of years we've often heard that officials will have zero tolerance on diving and will be very strict upon it, that simply hasn't happened. Often in a game a player will be tackled fairly but will still go down, not looking for a penalty by any means but simply balance and gravity kicking in. They will get up and the game goes on, nothing for the referee to do and that's the way it should be.

However why is it after all the statements they have made that a player can go down like he's been shot and scream for a penalty yet the ref neither gives the penalty or books the player for diving? I can vividly remember Robbie Keane screaming at the referee to book him if he wasn't going to give a penalty yet the ref just ran off. The referees need to start booking every player who appeals for a penalty or otherwise he needs to give the penalty. By doing neither he is simply saying, "I haven't got a clue what happened, I don't think it was a penalty but it might been so I'm not going to book him.)

There are 4 officials (If not more?) now at a game since they added the fourth official on a touchline yet so many times you still see wrong decisions being made and more importantly so many inconsistent decisions. I posted it at the time but the other weekend there were 3 very similiar situations, all of which with 3 very different outcomes. Vermalean (sp?) pulled someone down for Arsenal after being arguably the last man and got a red card for it, Mascherano did the same for Liverpool against Rooney I believe and got a yellow, then Samba for us did pretty much the same for us against Anelka and it wasn't even a foul!

If players were constantly called up on their diving and shown a yellow card for it more often then it would at least make players think twice about it. You may get the odd case of people being wrongly booked for diving but then often players are wrongly booked for bad tackles, what's the difference as long as it gets the message across. Referees shouldn't be afraid of making the wrong decision anyway, they have to take control of the game, have confidence in their ability and stand by their decisions, they should then be man enough to admit any mistakes they have made afterwards and look for ways they can improve in the future. Burying their heads in the sands and never commenting on decisions helps nobody.

Now I admit there is a lot going on in games at times but in my opinion the standard of refereeing just isn't good enough at the moment. In a game where so much importance is based on every fixture these days and so much money is at stake I just don't think it's acceptable for so many wrong decisions to occur. These referees need to be punished like any normal employee would be if they continued to make mistakes. (Our best referee and chosen world cup referee Howard Webb was staring at point blank range when Salgado ripped down Bale a few weeks ago yet somehow missed it, crikey the way I'm carrying on you'd think referees have been pretty kind to us this year!)

I think it's been almost 10 years now that referees were made professional in the premier league so this isn't just something they do on the weekend, they earn good money for a few hours a week, I'm not sure exactly what they are doing with the rest of the time and maybe there is a lot more to it but they should be looking for ways to improve.

The Bosses - FA/UEFA/FIFA Etc

The other guilty gulprits are the people who govern the competions and make the rules. The referees, guilty as they are, can only follow the instructions laid out to them and can only handle what they see on the pitch.

The FA/UEFA/FIFA etc, or bosses if you will, need to start clamping down on the players and the referees. Players found guilty of diving either at the time or after video evidence need to be severley punished. If it is certain that a player has dived due to it being obvious from video evidence or they are stupid enough to admit it (Olsson you listening?) should be issued with a 3 match ban or a similiar harsh punishment, then they may think twice about diving.

They also shouldn't be making daft rules which cause them problems in the future like not being able to appeal yellow cards or decisions that the referees saw. I'm sure it's a cost cutting and time saving issue but in my opinion we shouldn't accept it. Things like this mean that the innocent get punished and the guilty get away with it, in any way of life and any profession this should never be the case. If someone is guilty of something then they shouldn't be able to avoid punishment just because of some guideline or loophole. Protect the innocent.

What Can Be Done?

It's simple in my opinion, as I said earlier, the main reason for why it's become so prevalent is because the reward greatly outweighs the risk, in that case you need to increase the risk.

The referees have to firstly improve, that's in terms of quality and consistency. I don't know exactly what referees get up to when they are not on the pitch but what they should be doing is regularly meeting up together to discuss decisions, meeting with bosses to discuss any recent problems or things they could change to keep up with player trends, watching games to compare views on games and so on. As I said earlier, they are now professional, it's their full time jobs and they need to be held to a higher standard. As I said they also needs to improve their consistency, that's by keeping their promises, booking players regularly for diving, regularly giving the same crime the same punishment, regardless of the situation of the game.

The bosses can also change things, there is so much money in football these days that they could spend a bit on firstly improving the standard of referees by running more courses, adding incentives to becoming a referee, generally improving standards.

Secondly they could spend a bit of money on employing a few more officials, possibly ex players to sit on a review and appeals panel, study decisions etc and then hand out punishments and deal with that side of things. Then you can cut out the dumb rules that mean you can't appeal a yellow card or overule a poor decision. It would cost a bit more by having all of these reviews going on and I'm sure regular yellow card appeals but if it improves the accuracy of the decisions and ensures that the guilty parties are rightly punished then why not?

Money as I mentioned is one of the problems in the game which has helped lead to diving but of course you're never going to take that way now, I don't think you'd want to! There isn't a great deal you can do for the players either, as I said it simply comes down to the person, some will dive, some won't, but if the risk is greater than the reward then the number that will suddenly becomes a lot less.

Anyway I think I've said enough, diving gets on my nerves a little.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I can't stand divers whatever colour of shirt they are wearing. From next season I'd like to see incidents like the Ollsen pen put on report like they do in Rugby League. That means that video recordings of the controversial incidents would be viewed by an independant panel in the following week and players caught diving would get a three match suspension. The penalty and score would still stand but at least the guilty party would be punished.

[AggyBlue]

The Issue

Some people have said that diving has always been around in football which I think is true,

Wrong.

Wasn't worth reading on after an opening as false as that.

[chocky]

The worst thing about it is olson admitting to it...He should have just been more low key with hios response..What will refs think now when he goes down in the box?...Diving, unfortunalt is a part of the game, and I believe that every manager tells their players one way or another to do what is necessary to win...that is because of what is at stake now with relegation or not getting into the champions league etc.

[Fife Rover]

I can say quite categorically that deliberate diving with the specific intent to con the referee into awarding a penalty or a free kick or to get an opposing player "booked" is a relatively new phenomenon. I am of the opinion that it has come to our game from abroad via the increasing use of foreign players (mainly from the Latin countries) and also from exposure to TV games from these countries. Then of course there is the huge incentive to win (at all costs?) created by the huge wages and bonuses now enjoyed by players and also succesful clubs.

Taking it all into account this is a major reason why I and thousands of previously totally dedicated football fans have started to question whether we can take much more of this rubbish and whether we would be far better finding something else to do instead of wasting our hard-earned on such blatant cheating.

[Kelbo]

I can say quite categorically that deliberate diving with the specific intent to con the referee into awarding a penalty or a free kick or to get an opposing player "booked" is a relatively new phenomenon. I am of the opinion that it has come to our game from abroad via the increasing use of foreign players (mainly from the Latin countries) and also from exposure to TV games from these countries. Then of course there is the huge incentive to win (at all costs?) created by the huge wages and bonuses now enjoyed by players and also succesful clubs.

Taking it all into account this is a major reason why I and thousands of previously totally dedicated football fans have started to question whether we can take much more of this rubbish and whether we would be far better finding something else to do instead of wasting our hard-earned on such blatant cheating.

Two words, Francis Lee

He made a career out of diving, got up and scored the pens, was a standing joke, even Paul Fletcher said its been going on 50 years!!

[AggyBlue]

Two words, Francis Lee

He made a career out of diving, got up and scored the pens, was a standing joke, even Paul Fletcher said its been going on 50 years!!

Football has been played 150 plus years not 50.

Francis Lee was the exception to the rule, not the norm. He was well ridiculed at the time too.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Two words, Francis Lee

He made a career out of diving, got up and scored the pens, was a standing joke, even Paul Fletcher said its been going on 50 years!!

OK, Lee practically invented diving in this country, but name another player from that era who was a regular diver. Even Lee only dived in the penalty area, now you get players diving all over the pitch, usually the instant they lose an advantage when they're on the ball.

Have you ever seen the "Chopper" Harris tackle on George Best ? Harris put a quietener on Best that would have cut most people in half. Did Best go down ? Nah he just rode the tackle and buried the ball in the far corner. Todays players wouldn't have stopped rolling over until they reached the hoardings !

[Kelbo]

What I was saying its not new, Lee Sharpe got Berg sent off at Ewood and Berg played the ball

[des]

for me knowing that you have not been touched and going down to con a ref is wrong.

[Miker]

On a side note, I think more players should follow suit and admit they've dived as Olsson has done. If we had a mass of players publically stating that they succeeded in deceiving the referee maybe it could lead to a serious case for using video technology and other methods of avoiding cheating and incorrect decisions.

I know I've heard some say that it's just part of the game, but I'd rather correct decisions were simply given at matches and end it at that.

[DeadlyDirk]

I think it's interesting that in recent games referees seem to be a lot happier to give free kicks (Even yellow cards) when a player wins the ball first but then his momentum takes the player as well. I was always under the impression that if you win the ball first then it doesn't really matter about the contact afterwards, unless of course it's a seperate movement or two footed challenge.

I hope this is just a poor patch of refereeing and not something we are going to see enforced more frequently, otherwise they may as well make it a total non contact sport which would be a real shame in my opinion.

Diving certainly doesn't seem to be showing any signs of playing up, must have been half a dozen times last night when a player either took a dive or over reacted to a challenge.

The more it happens the more that people seem to just say, 'Ah it's just part of the game now', can't change it so may as well get on with things.' I sincerley hope that is not the case.

[CrazyIvan]

I think it's interesting that in recent games referees seem to be a lot happier to give free kicks (Even yellow cards) when a player wins the ball first but then his momentum takes the player as well. I was always under the impression that if you win the ball first then it doesn't really matter about the contact afterwards, unless of course it's a seperate movement or two footed challenge.

I hope this is just a poor patch of refereeing and not something we are going to see enforced more frequently, otherwise they may as well make it a total non contact sport which would be a real shame in my opinion.

Diving certainly doesn't seem to be showing any signs of playing up, must have been half a dozen times last night when a player either took a dive or over reacted to a challenge.

The more it happens the more that people seem to just say, 'Ah it's just part of the game now', can't change it so may as well get on with things.' I sincerley hope that is not the case.

It definitely is the case that free kicks and bookings are more frequently given for winning the ball then taking the player. It's judged the same as if the ball wasn't taken, only the player these days. It's a deliberate action by the refs now. If I could find the article by a ref that said it, I'd post it up...

[Claytons Left Boot]

OK, Lee practically invented diving in this country, but name another player from that era who was a regular diver....

Must have been drummed into that City team because Rodney Marsh was also a main contributor. He was one of the first to admit to diving to 'earn' a penalty and it was shown on Granada TV in the Gerald Sinstadt era.

You're quite right in what you suggest a la Rugby League reports etc but that is too much like common sense for the football authorities.

[DeadlyDirk]

Wrong.

Wasn't worth reading on after an opening as false as that.

At least finish the sentence, as I said before it was very rare to find a diver say 10-20 years ago but to think that diving was completely non existant in football until recent times is very naive in my opinion, as others have mentioned Sammy Lee was one of the earlier divers, I'm sure there were some before him, it just wouldn't have been as obvious back in the day without so many replays, camera angles and media discussion. For as long as football has been around, just like in any other profession, I'm sure there will always have been a small minority who were happy to cheat if it gives them a slight edge. The problem in my eyes is that in the minority will soon become the majority.

Whatever you believe I doubt many people will argue that diving is a lot more common in the modern game than it has been at any other time which was my opening point.

[Mr. E]

Unfortunately nothing can be done unless the very top of FIFA and UEFA is replaced.

[XLM]

At least finish the sentence, as I said before it was very rare to find a diver say 10-20 years ago but to think that diving was completely non existant in football until recent times is very naive in my opinion, as others have mentioned Sammy Lee was one of the earlier divers, I'm sure there were some before him, it just wouldn't have been as obvious back in the day without so many replays, camera angles and media discussion. For as long as football has been around, just like in any other profession, I'm sure there will always have been a small minority who were happy to cheat if it gives them a slight edge. The problem in my eyes is that in the minority will soon become the majority.

Whatever you believe I doubt many people will argue that diving is a lot more common in the modern game than it has been at any other time which was my opening point.

The first example of diving I remember was West Germany, World Cup 1966, Haller and friends spent more time on the floor than 'Basil' Rathbone. Rodney Marsh perfected the art of tripping himself up. David Beckham tries to dive but usually makes a mess of it. Francis Lee added the punch into the net at the end of a dive.

By the way Lee Sharpe didn't get Berg sent off, the ref managed that all on his own.

[chocky]

One of the reasons diving was not thought to be as oprevelent in days past is simple..technology..instant replays and twenty cameras in a ground everything gets spotted..