[Archived] Policing At Rovers Vs Burnley

[brightonrover]

I'm not a journalist but I write occasionally for fans magazine When Saturday Comes (WSC.co.uk)and I'm trying to put something together about the policing of both derbies.

If anyone was an eye witness to events that concerned them (in and outside the grounds and in the pub) could you PM me please.

I'd be particularly interested to hear from people at the recent Turf game who were explicitly told by police that they could take their drinks into the stand and from supporters who witnessed events at The Station in Cherry Tree after the Ewood game.

Thanks

[JAL]

I'm not a journalist but I write occasionally for fans magazine When Saturday Comes (WSC.co.uk)and I'm trying to put something together about the policing of both derbies.

If anyone was an eye witness to events that concerned them (in and outside the grounds and in the pub) could you PM me please.

I'd be particularly interested to hear from people at the recent Turf game who were explicitly told by police that they could take their drinks into the stand and from supporters who witnessed events at The Station in Cherry Tree after the Ewood game.

Thanks

The policing at both Ewood and Burnley were EXCELLENT, you couldnt have asked for a better organised, highly visible yet low key and friendly, I might add policing.

[Ricky]

Spot on Jal, until the police come out and state that Rovers fans were smuggling bottles back to their seats when they were clearly told to do so. The police handled the situation perfectly and then ballsed it up by blatently lying about the facts afterwards.

[Hughesy]

Spot on Jal, until the police come out and state that Rovers fans were smuggling bottles back to their seats when they were clearly told to do so. The police handled the situation perfectly and then ballsed it up by blatently lying about the facts afterwards.

Agree 100%. The measures were necessary for travel etc & they planned it very well.

Minimal trouble inside either ground....The Burnley fans that kept taunting at Turd got what they deserved, police got the beer situation correct (except for the lies).

The only improvement that could have been made would be to allocate us the full Cricket stand.

[Neil Weaver]

Not a comment on the policing at t'Turf cos I really didn't have direct contact so don't feel I can comment on that.

Couple of general comments though. Firstly, the whole experience : went like clockwork, so thumbs up to the folk behind it, it must have taken a bit of organizing. But can't help thinking it was all a bit over the top - at Ewood before 9am for a 12 o'clock kick off 30 mins away, no independent travel, not back at Ewood till about 330pm : so 6.5 hrs of being herded around for 1.5 hrs of football. Maybe that's just age .

Secondly, how on earth has that stand got a safety certificate? The coach convoy I was in was midway, so when I arrived at t'Turf I'd imagine there was around 60% of Rovers fans already inside. From getting through the turnstile to emerging up the steps into the stand took me the best part of half an hour (and I didn't stop for a bar or the gents) - I'd imagine the distance was around 100 yds. That 'tunnel' under the stand was absolutely rammed. I've attended plenty of other grounds and have experienced nothing approaching that. If there'd been any sort of emergency before, during, or after the game there's no way that 'tunnel' could have coped : the only way out of that stand would have been to go on to the pitch which if the police/stewards at the front didn't realise what was happening would have led to a mini-Hillsborough. Can't imagine the situation would be a lot different for any clubs that take up most of their allocation when visiting Burnley.

[Hughesy]

Can't imagine the situation would be a lot different for any clubs that take up most of their allocation when visiting Burnley.

Course it would - others would be in surrounding pubs or town centre prior to the game - not all stuck in 1 place for 2 hours.

It was only so busy under there because we had nowhere else to go & drink.

[LeftWinger]

Thought they did a cracking job in general. My only complaint was the amount of time we had to spend on the coach as we were only taken in groups of 8 coaches at a time. Me and the missus were sat on the coach from 8.45, finally getting to the ground at 11.30, as we were in the last lot of coaches to leave Ewood. We could almost have walked to Turf Moor in that time.

[Neil Weaver]

Course it would - others would be in surrounding pubs or town centre prior to the game - not all stuck in 1 place for 2 hours.

It was only so busy under there because we had nowhere else to go & drink.

Hughesy, fair comment for most of the pre-game time yes, but for (say) 15 mins before kick off, the 2 hours or so of the game, and if there's a lock-in after play, then it would be true wouldn't it?

[JAL]

Spot on Jal, until the police come out and state that Rovers fans were smuggling bottles back to their seats when they were clearly told to do so. The police handled the situation perfectly and then ballsed it up by blatently lying about the facts afterwards.

This has obviously come about because someone, seemingly important, has raised the issue to an embarrassed match commander -black Jack anyone ? When the decision taken at that time was the most practical, effective and sensible one.

What we need to know is the positions of the people who raised the issue and their agenda.

[OscarRaven]

Apart from the lying, the herding, the needless waiting, the stupidly early start (effectivley 7-8am), cramped conditions and allowing smoking in a stand with wooden seats it was crackingly well organised!

Very OTT policing, trouble is you now have people believing that an away day at Burnley can't be done without such extreme measures - which is Rubbish. Yes they would have been trouble (as there was this time - window smashed anyone?)but the vast majority of fans would have had a much better football experience.

It seems our fans representitives are also a bit wet - apparently they agreed to such draconian decsions on the basis that it "wouldn't be fair on the Burnley fans if we were treated differently" despite evidence that it was over the top.

But I was kept safe and came home to my loved ones despite visting deepest darkest Burnley

[Paul]

Couple of general comments though. Firstly, the whole experience : went like clockwork, so thumbs up to the folk behind it, it must have taken a bit of organizing. But can't help thinking it was all a bit over the top - at Ewood before 9am for a 12 o'clock kick off 30 mins away, no independent travel, not back at Ewood till about 330pm : so 6.5 hrs of being herded around for 1.5 hrs of football. Maybe that's just age

Thought they did a cracking job in general. My only complaint was the amount of time we had to spend on the coach as we were only taken in groups of 8 coaches at a time. Me and the missus were sat on the coach from 8.45, finally getting to the ground at 11.30, as we were in the last lot of coaches to leave Ewood. We could almost have walked to Turf Moor in that time.

Apart from the lying, the herding, the needless waiting, the stupidly early start (effectivley 7-8am), cramped conditions and allowing smoking in a stand with wooden seats it was crackingly well organised!

Very OTT policing, trouble is you now have people believing that an away day at Burnley can't be done without such extreme measures - which is Rubbish.

All the reasons why I didn't go despite having tickets.

I had planned to take my son who is registered disabled but fully ambulant. I was quite disgusted the organisation could not allow for disabled fans to arrive in some other way. I know my lad would not have coped with the conditions imposed on fans by the clubs. While I understand the concern I think it utterly wrong any fan should be treated like this and especially so the disabled support.It nearly amounts to discrimination.

[only2garners]

It seems our fans representitives are also a bit wet - apparently they agreed to such draconian decsions on the basis that it "wouldn't be fair on the Burnley fans if we were treated differently" despite evidence that it was over the top.

We did not "agree" to the arrangements. We weren't given an opportunity to agree or not. It was a done deal and I don't think the clubs had a great deal of say either - they pretty much had to accept what the police told them. There was never any way that the arrangements for the Turf Moor game were going to be any different to those at Ewood once they were in place. What we do have is an agreement to meet the police and the clubs with Burnley fans' reps in the close season to talk about arrangements for next season, although that looks like being irrelevant now.

[Ben-2000]

All the reasons why I didn't go despite having tickets.

I had planned to take my son who is registered disabled but fully ambulant. I was quite disgusted the organisation could not allow for disabled fans to arrive in some other way. I know my lad would not have coped with the conditions imposed on fans by the clubs. While I understand the concern I think it utterly wrong any fan should be treated like this and especially so the disabled support.It nearly amounts to discrimination.

I think there was Paul - There was an entrance gate between the Fishwick and Bob Lord Stands where disabled fans came in.

[1864roverite]

My views will be sent via pm.

A few pointers though. The LET reported Rovers fans as being responsible for smuggling beer into the stands and the police denying giving the order, the LET reporter got it very wrong.

There is a bot of an enquiry going on with the IPCC as regards the Policing at the event.

My overall views were a good effort but a very draconian way of allowing fans to go to a match.

[Mike Graham]

The policing was 1st class, no complaints from me. I was also on the coaches that arrived at 11.30am, that was due to the dump of the ground not being big enough to take all the visiting fans in the concourse...in a way I am glad that we arrived late.

Just think what a mess it would have been if it were not policed in the way it was. There were the usual plonkers out for a ruck, what the hell are the police to do if they dingles refused to leave the ground and were looking for a bust up; they got what they deserved, and after warnings to clear out.

What really disgusted me was the dump of a ground; has anyone contacted Lancs County Council to ask how the place managed to get a safety certificate?

It would have also been totally unsutable for Paul's lad as well; we are in 2010 and the place was totally unsuited, and unsafe , for certain disabilities....what a joke and a disgrace.

[Ossydave]

I think there was Paul - There was an entrance gate between the Fishwick and Bob Lord Stands where disabled fans came in.

Yep, there was a disabled coach, maybe 2 actually and the majority were let in through a seperate entrance.

[Paul]

Yep, there was a disabled coach, maybe 2 actually and the majority were let in through a seperate entrance.

I'm pleased to hear that .........it would have been good if the club had informed us of this when we purchased tickets. Our account is marked as disabled and so the information would have been clear to the ticket office.

Aside from the disabled issue I'm at a loss as to how the police operation can be described as a success. If success is defined as restricting my civil liberties simply because I want to attend a football match then I would argue the "success" of policing football matches remains questionable. For me the police operation raises a whole series of questions and that this operation was deemed necessary is in itself a failure. I'm not criticising the clubs on this point, it seems both organised their parts very well, but asking a question. I went to the last two games at Turf Moor and have read / heard the descriptions of the conditions at this match. I would suggest brightonrover should not be writing about the "success" of the police operation but the failure its need represents. In the 21st century to treat football fans in this manner, placing them in conditions which where probably unsafe and certainly would not be permitted for animals is completely unacceptable. I agree there seems to have been no "trouble," if this defines success than so be it.

Perhaps the Premier League should be investing some of its wealth in resolving these issues rather than pouring the money into the player's pockets?

[PAFELL]

Agree with the sentiments above.

When I was at t'Turf I witnessed stewards telling people to take their drinks upstairs. I didn't hear them say that people could smoke upstairs but I heard quite a few Rovers fans asking if they could. I suspect there weren't any guidelines given to the stewards on smoking and they might have wrongly allowed it.

Police seemed friendly enough to me, one or two laughing and joking with some fans that they knew (in a good way or bad way I have no idea!). I didn't witness police officers advising people to go upstairs with their drinks but from the amount of people on here who claimed that they did then it must be true.

I'm not sure what their involvement was in allowing the refreshments kiosk to open before kick-off but they reacted well to the circumstances - closing the kiosks and allowing fans who had already purchased drinks to go up to the terraces with them was the right decision. I dread to think about the number of injuries that might have been caused if they hadn't taken that decision.

One thing's for sure... The police must surely have lodged a safety concern about that hovel of a concourse to the Premier League.

I was not at the Burnley game, but I also wondered how wigan got their safety certificate. As the concourse there is also bad. If a serious incident, fire for example had broken out people would not have got out.

[4ever&ever]

This gives an indication to the overcrowding in the concourse, you can see that people are still coming in also.

[ABBEY]

Someone mentioned a window it was coach 19, if that lying sack says we smuggked beer in he deserves sacking for a. Lying or b. Having no control if his men.I was told to take my beer to my seat and my smokes and I don't smoke.

[OscarRaven]

We did not "agree" to the arrangements. We weren't given an opportunity to agree or not. It was a done deal and I don't think the clubs had a great deal of say either - they pretty much had to accept what the police told them. There was never any way that the arrangements for the Turf Moor game were going to be any different to those at Ewood once they were in place. What we do have is an agreement to meet the police and the clubs with Burnley fans' reps in the close season to talk about arrangements for next season, although that looks like being irrelevant now.

Don't take it personally, I'm not having a go at you - but the fans forum needs to be a bit more vocal with the club.

I suspect the little tasty tit-bits they reveal to you at your meetings means that your behaving more like a bunch of groupies than a pressure group.

They invited us to talk to see if we could collectively persuade the police to use a lighter touch for the Turf Moor fixture. We had a good friendly chat but I thought at the end of the meeting we were all convinced that the same process would apply to our fans at the Turf.

So you didn't bother trying to have a chat with the police again?

[Ste B]

Don't take it personally, I'm not having a go at you - but the fans forum needs to be a bit more vocal with the club.

I suspect the little tasty tit-bits they reveal to you at your meetings means that your behaving more like a bunch of groupies than a pressure group.

So you didn't bother trying to have a chat with the police again?

We had a chat with Burnley

We had a chat with the club, where we also put some of the issues the burnley fans faced. (Ie unreserved coaches that they had to pay for)

We had a chat with the Police and the Club.

At all stages, it was made completely clear that there was going to be NO room for any concessions.

It was agreed that should Burnley stay up, things would be reviewed, and changes may be made. Only at that point would it be worth getting back together with the Burnley fans groups and together trying to make something happen. Given the lack of any disorder between fans at either game, and the fact that the authorities would deem it a success, then I doubt we will get anything. In fact I imagine Jeff Brown will ensure no beer is on sale at the turf next time.

[only2garners]

Don't take it personally, I'm not having a go at you - but the fans forum needs to be a bit more vocal with the club.

I suspect the little tasty tit-bits they reveal to you at your meetings means that your behaving more like a bunch of groupies than a pressure group.

So you didn't bother trying to have a chat with the police again?

I don't want to clog up this site with a petty squabble but you ask me not to take it personally and then accuse me and the rest of the Forum of being a bunch of groupies? We could have a discussion about what the Forum does and whether it's worthwhile or not but that's probably for a new thread. In any event it sounds like your mind is made up anyway.

As for the Burnley game Ste B has pretty clearly replied above. Being more vocal with the club on this issue would have been a complete waste of time as they couldn't do anything about it anyway. As Ste says we did talk to the police.

[Neil Weaver]

I was not at the Burnley game, but I also wondered how wigan got their safety certificate. As the concourse there is also bad. If a serious incident, fire for example had broken out people would not have got out.

PAFELL, I was at both games so know the Wigan concourse, but didn't see the shenanigans there this year (was it at half time? I stayed on the terrace). I'd agree entirely with the sentiment though. Imagine the Wigan concourse about a fifth or less the size, suppose our fans were about half the number of Wigan. So at least twice the density of fans to put it in context.

The concourse area at Wigan is an order of magnitude better than at Turf Moor.

[Gav]

They should never have been given the green light to play in the premiership with those facilities, simple as that.

Taking one look at the toilets, you have to wonder what the premier league officials that inspected the ground pre season actually did? Would they have been happy to use the facilities, apparently the women’s were not fit for pigs

Having been to both Wigan and Burnley, Wigan is a palace in comparison, have no problem with the concourses or facilities there.